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Posted: 3/17/2006 12:55:16 AM EDT
ok, i have my doubts onthis but...

while on a trip, i convinced my father to pick up a S&W M&P15.

is it legal for me to completely strip the reciver and xfer it to me, via FFL, as a bare reciever. or, due to the fact that it has already been a complete firearm is its possible status as a "bare" reciever(even if stripped) void?


honestly i want the rifle more or less as a safe queen than anything else(due to having a S/N below 500) , i would just rather be able to lock it in my personal safe rather than my fathers.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CSeaBass:
ok, i have my doubts onthis but...

while on a trip, i convinced my father to pick up a S&W M&P15.

is it legal for me to completely strip the reciver and xfer it to me, via FFL, as a bare reciever. or, due to the fact that it has already been a complete firearm is its possible status as a "bare" reciever(even if stripped) void?


honestly i want the rifle more or less as a safe queen than anything else(due to having a S/N below 500) , i would just rather be able to lock it in my personal safe rather than my fathers.



Use a nut and fix the magazine, and you can legally transfer the entire rifle.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:27:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 8:32:41 AM EDT by bwiese]
Some CA off-list lower dealers may not want to transfer it with a fixed magazine. While legal to the letter/spirit of the law (i.e. conforming to the converse of the sec 978.20 detachable mag definition), it could be more dealer grief than a bare receiver during any DOJ inspection.

Just go take the rifle apart - take with/ship to you the upper and other parts, they're non-gun and not controlled. Remove the pistol grip and complete telestock assembly too. I recommend taking off the whole telestock including the extension tube, not just the actual physical stock itself.

Watch for and save the small pins & springs that fall/fly out - likely candidates are selector detent pin and spring, takedown pin detent and spring, and buffer detent pin and spring. Rest of parts should stay in, IIRC.

Then, have your dad's FFL transfer the lower to your CA FFL that handles off-list lowers.

When you reassemble the rifle inside CA, just remember to FIRST securely attach the 10rd or less fixed magazine - before reinstalling the pistol grip and the telestock and flash-hider equipped upper.

Congrats - those S&W carbines are nice, tight and well-finished. I handled a couple at the SHOT Show and they were great. It's nice to see S&W get into these.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:35:01 AM EDT
thanks for the info again bill. thats what i wanted to hear. im gonna get ahold of an armorers wrench today, call both FFLS also.

thanks again,
CSB
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:54:53 AM EDT
You might as well go for broke and strip down a Barrett 468 while you're at it.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:00:16 AM EDT
hehehe, a bit out of my price range.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:31:08 AM EDT
Step #1 Strip rifle

Step #2 import into California

Step #3 Pin magazine

Step #4 Rebuild

Congratulations on being the second person in California to get a S&W M&P15 rifle into the state. The first was a dealer in San Jose... of course this guy is sick in the head :) heh! He's also got a patriot ordinance rifle and other off-list oddities as well... I'm assuming off-hand he probably has a big credit card bill as well
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:45:18 PM EDT
i spoke with a FFL in my area(in CA) and he said that, due to the fact my father purchased the rifle, he could "give" it to me and there doesnt have to be any paper on it... i had thought CA killed the grandfather stuff, i guess im wrong? i tend to trust the gentleman i spoke with but i just need to confirm it.

im having a bitch of a time finding a damned armorers wrench up here... everyone has one but wont sell it... or they want an arm and a leg to strip the gun.

also, i know this is a LOOOOOONGSHOT, but if worst came to worst and i couldnt get a wrench to take the buffer tube off, can i strip the lower and leave the buffertube on the receiver... while i send the stock itself in a seperate package? i doubt i could get away with it but, i just thought i would confirm it before i ruled it out of the equation.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:20:02 PM EDT
If it's a tele-stock, you might not need an armorers wrench to strip the lower. It shouldn't be on that tight, 40 inch lbs. A Bob Villa type mini strap wrech might work. I would still buy a real ttele-stock wrench to reinstall and make sure that you get the correct wrench for either the new or old style stock. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/gunsmith/223-telewrench2.asp

Watch out for the safety and buffer detent springs when you remove the stock, they can pop out and disappear.

All you need for the rest of the lower is an allen wrench for the grip and a few punches for the trigger and hammer pins. You probably won't have to remove the trigger guard, pivot pins or the bolt catch.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 3:36:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSeaBass:
i spoke with a FFL in my area(in CA) and he said that, due to the fact my father purchased the rifle, he could "give" it to me and there doesnt have to be any paper on it... i had thought CA killed the grandfather stuff, i guess im wrong? i tend to trust the gentleman i spoke with but i just need to confirm it.



You might have something there, there is a form on the CA-DOJ website for intrafamilial transfers. I don't know the specifics, hopefully the form will explain things in more detail. I think your father has to be a resident of this state though.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 3:40:02 PM EDT
I just checked the form online, it's for handguns only. I don't know what the process is for rifles or shotguns.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:28:02 PM EDT
yeah, this is all new to me... im used to buyin all my guns... im supprised i got my dad to even put his name on this... considering hes super libtard(i think moving to WA has done him a little bit of political goodness):/
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:22:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 12:23:40 AM EDT by M4-guy]
No FFL required for father to son long arm transfers. Have your dad remove the upper, pistol grip and telestock, and then give it to you. You now own it. Then ask your dad to ship your gun to you.

Man, I wish my dad lived out of state.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:49:20 AM EDT
You lucky dog you. If it were me, dad would buy 2. I'd keep 1 and sell the other to a "friend". Some guys I know would kill for one.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-guy:
No FFL required for father to son long arm transfers. Have your dad remove the upper, pistol grip and telestock, and then give it to you. You now own it. Then ask your dad to ship your gun to you.

Man, I wish my dad lived out of state.




N0, No, No!

He could legally give the rifle to his son only if both were residents of the same state. Since they are not, an FFL transfer is required on the receiving end. This is a requirement of Federal law.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:13:24 PM EDT
ok, see that sounds more like what i was thinkin...


anyone know what form i would need to complete(i assume its not the standard?)
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:12:05 PM EDT
Sorry for the hijack.....can other family members transfer/give long guns to other family members. Say a sister in NV to me in CA ??

Steve
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:47:29 PM EDT
im gonna search the doj website and see what i can dig up... ill post what i find HK:D
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:04:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 12:14:12 AM EDT by CSeaBass]
from CADOJ public FAQ



5. Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later?

Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit an Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

(PC section 12076(c))



nothing about out of state gifts... im gonna keep looking.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:30:19 AM EDT
Do NOT do an out-of-state personal transfer from your father.

While CA law may not object to it, I don't think Fed law really allows this... that's an interstate transfer, and an FFL has to be involved if you are residents of different states.

Don't be cheap, have your dad send the receiver (w/evil features pistol grip & telestock removed) to your CA FFL.

Expect elevated scrutiny for off-list lower/rifle situations, follow things to the dotted I and crossed T.

And the S&W M&P rifle is expensive enough, the FFL transfer is only a small fraction on top of that. Do it right.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

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