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Posted: 1/16/2006 12:48:14 PM EDT
Guys and gals,

This is NOT another WHERE TO SHOOT thread, more over a clarification question.

I have been camping out in this are quite a bit over the last decade and am aware that certain parts of BLM land are marked specifically Shotgun/Rimfire? only.

I thought I read a while back that BLM land in SanBernadino County was restricted from Centerfire rifle shooting. More over I recall that the Park Rangers didn't "mind" poeple shooting so long as it was in a safe eco friendly manner, however the SB Sherrif could prosecute one based on County laws.

I normally camp in the Kern Co section of BLM land and normally don't even worry about this, however some of my buddies have told me they want to camp in the Red Mountain area, which is in SB County. This got my thinking about what I thought I had read.

Now, I fully intend on calling the Jawbone ranger station (BLM Officers) to clear this up as best I can, however I wanted to ask you all first to see if anything else sparks any questions I should ask while speaking with them.

So, anyone have anything on the subject they can post?

Thanks for the help.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:00:50 PM EDT
From what I understood, the areas that were shotgun restricted were due to being OHV areas that could result in an offroader getting shot. Since shotgun and .22 are so much less lethal at longer distances, they continue to allow them.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:08:05 PM EDT
Just spoke with SB county sherrif, They have no restriction in the area other than not shooting towards houses ect... The told me to contact BLM for more info.. "No restrictions on shooting legal firearms"



BLM says, that the Spnagler hills open area has no restriction on shooting other than the usual "no trash" shooting. They do ask to use non-toxic shot for hunting. (I found this funny, as she said this I was thinking that even steel shot @ 1200 fps is pretty "toxic") But no, there are no restriction on wepon or caliber in the Spangler Hills open area..

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:17:00 PM EDT
When I talked to SB Sheriffs in Victorville their answer was you can only shoot at ranges. Which is bs.

Most(NOT ALL) land south of the 40 and 58 is shotgun only in SB County is shotgun only. Thats the County Ordinance and both Sheriffs and BLM Rangers will enforce that. But in general if you are in an area open to all weapons, it is open to all LEGAL weapons, which includes registered AWs. (I have never been checked for my registration).

There is at least one area north of 58 that it is a tortoise sanctuary and no shooting.

Current BLM (to the best of my knowledge) for the whole state is that if there are no other ordinances, sanctuaries, or fire restrictions, etc, shooting is OK as long as it is safe and the guns are legal. No shottoing at or over structures, roads, etc etc.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:01:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:02:40 PM EDT by caser]
san bernardino county has a large shotgun-only zone north of the mountains. it's a county ordinance. blm requires you follow local ordinances, and that includes county ordinances. so, much of the county that is close to the southern population centers is off-limits.

the red mountain area has specific shooting closures because too many of the dead tortoises had bullet holes in them. there are other places closed off for other reasons as well, e.g., OHV use, etc.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:38:34 PM EDT
So it seems we have some similar accounts with many differences.

My next question has to be, with all the seperate non-centerfire or non-shooting areas based on various local and federal laws---how is one to make sure he is on "solid ground"?

I mean, the BLM has a map that covers the tortise sanctuaries, but does not include the SB code. I can call the sheriff and get different answers depending on who answers the phone.

How is one sure?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:49:57 PM EDT
Used to be you could get maps from Turners and the BLM, and alledgedly SB county sheriff and fire offices. But my past experience with the SB CO departments is pretty shaky. I think you can with some work and luck find the verbal description on some county web sites.

You might check the Barstow BLM office site, they may still have the description. Also used to have a map but it wasn't much good. (line drawing one a map of the roads, but no specific details, mile posts etc.)
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:03:40 AM EDT
Man what I wouldnt give for some GPS co-orids of the lines... A simple google maps overlay and done. I would make it available to everyone to reference.....But alas--- I can't find one person that can confirm they have the statute or laws and boundries understood.

But I can without a doubt be sure that the sheriff I encounter will think/know im in violation---it's just my luck.


Like I said--this isn't normally an issue for me as I usually camp a little deeper in Kern Co past Dove Springs, or the Jaw Bone area. (Kern Co = Gun Rights) However, my friends who do more dirt bike riding than shooting say the riding isn't as good in JawBone. (I of course have no opinion on this as I do not ride dirt bikes)

Ill try another round of calls to everyone and let you guys know what comes of it. if anyone has any other information or specifics availble please don't hesitate to add to this thread.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:41:09 AM EDT
Tell your buddies that the area around Ridgecrest/Randsburg/Johannasburg is full of mines. I read a story in the paper about a year ago about 3 friends riding in that area. The first went straight down a mine, the second wrecked his bike to miss the mine and was hanging on the edge. The third was lucky enough to see what happened to the second and dodged the mine, he pulled the second rider up from the edge of the mine.

The first rider died, search and rescue found his body about 700 ft down! I think they said there are thousands of mines in that area that aren't marked. Tell them to go ride over at El Mirage, plenty of space there for dirtbikes.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:59:03 AM EDT
Like I said, I don't ride so I wouldn't comment....but seeing as though you brought it up.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Riding is inherently dangerous, however riding in that area is even more dangerous due to these mines. (That was only one of my points)

All in all they don't care about that fact. I know these guys have common sense, but it seems to go out the window when RE: riding dirt bikes. (But I think getting on one is so dangerous that I wouldn't even try--part of the reason they dismiss me) Of course TONS of people disagree with me there.

Specifically their probelm with Jawbone apparently is that there are to many trails/hills instead of wide open riding. One of them is a very accomplished rider with many years of desert racing experience---he actually prefers the "mined" area for it's terrain. (Of course does not appreciate the mines themselves though) The other riders in the group following suit agree, however do not have the experience.

My position is--From Jawbone area they can ride to a location that fits their needs, while I on the other hand have to hoof it to a location to shoot.

In an attempt to make everyone happy I'm trying to locate a place on the map that allows me to shoot all my toys safely and legally, while at the same time giving them access to a great area to ride in.

If Im not mistaken I believe the El Mirage area is often to populated to shoot, or has ordinances against it. Am I mistaken here? Do you happen to have eany GPS co-ords I can use to look this area up?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:06:37 PM EDT
I believe on the BLM website it states that El Mirage is off limits to ALL shooting.

On the opposite end of the trail, try Ord Mtn., I use to go shooting out there. It's off Hwy 40 at the Yermo/Dagget exit a couple miles out of Barstow. Plenty of space to ride dirtbikes or four wheelers and the terrain varies widely. www.ca.blm.gov/barstow/ords.html someone poted these pics community.webshots.com/album/319508422aExKWN this link shows how to get there from the 15 www.summitpost.org/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/4650
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:28:28 PM EDT
Found this www.ca.blm.gov//barstow/recshoot.html wasn't what I was looking for.

They use to have a simple seach feature on the site but now they don't!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 1:43:55 PM EDT
Now you see what Im dealing with here...

I have a map of the area mentioned at this (http://www.ca.blm.gov//barstow/recshoot.html) link, and it seems it is only shotgun shooting allowed. I can't find the link to the map, but I did print it out.

Basically that area is comprised of:

West Side El Mirage Lake
South Side San bernadino National Forest
East side Twentry Nine Palms (Marines)
North side just about the 58 and 40 highways.

So all that area is a no go for shooting.

I just can't get this problem solved, or question answered by anyone--- including BLM. I need one giant conference call with all the sheriffs depts, and a BLM spokes person. That should be easy to pull off.


I guess for the time being im stuck going only to the Jawbone (Kern County) area as I know I am legal there. I realyl would like to camp other places though---change of scenery is always a good thing.

As far as the terrain, and my buddies riding--- screw em.

If anyone has any more specifics please don't hesitate to add em in here--- for those of you who have posted a reply in this thread--MANY thanks. I really do appreciate it.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:24:02 PM EDT
Talked with the Senior Law Enforcement Ranger for California BLM Ridgecrest office.. The office that covers the Red Mountian area. In his words.... "The Splanger Hills open area is open to legal target shooting." He went on to say.. "While the BLM has the final work on what is legal on BLM land, we try to follow any local and county ordance. Of which there are none." "The Spangler Hills open are is patroled by BLM rangers who assist the SBCS Trona sub-station. These guys have one corpral and two officers for the whole area. So we take care of all off-highway problems."

What about AW's? "As long as they are legal."
He gave me the phone number to the Trona sub-station

Trona sub-station.. "We have no restriction on shooting on BLM land in that area." What about AW's?
"You would have to talk to the BLM Ridgecrest office about that, as far as SBC as long as it is legal and transported correctly, we have no problems."


Everything else is not for this fourm....
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:58:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 3:59:30 PM EDT by CptDlite]
Sweet got names of who you talked to? I, along with others, got other replied to these specific questions.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:01:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:37:58 PM EDT
Road 1N09 was officially opened today to target shooters.

It's off the 330 on the way to Running Springs.

Shoot my AR's out there all the time.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:50:48 PM EDT
I happen to go to some places that are south of the 40 and north of the the Marine Base. Not a big area but good for shooting. The BLM may only goes to the westrn boundary of the base. North of the base boundary is open.

Frankly I think you are closer going to the Jawbone/Trona districts then you are to the San Bernardino areas. SBDO County south and west of Barstow is murky at best.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:13:13 PM EDT
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