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Posted: 1/2/2006 9:10:11 AM EDT
It isn't a centerfire afteralll... All AR15 lower receivers will likely be listed however, so assuming the Vulcan is not added to the list, would I be able to unpin the mag and immediately slap on a .22 kit?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:34:08 AM EDT
I was wondering that too, might be handy to keep my cali legal bushmaster 223 next to a 22lr AR and just swap uppers when prudent.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:38:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By foogoo:
It isn't a centerfire afteralll... All AR15 lower receivers will likely be listed however, so assuming the Vulcan is not added to the list, would I be able to unpin the mag and immediately slap on a .22 kit?



I would strongly advise against removing the fixed magazine to install a .22 LR kit that can accept detachable .22LR magazines. AFAIK, there is no difference in form factor between .22 LR and standard .223 magazine. Once the fixed mag is released, the receiver will accept a standard .223 (centerfire) as well as the .22LR magazine.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:57:48 AM EDT
22Rimfires are exempt. A stag lower assembled with a upper containing a 22LR conversion complies with both the intent and the letter of the law. remove the 22LR conversion and install a centerfire BCG and its illegal.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:50:46 AM EDT
So in other words it should be okay? The form-factor of the magazines is actually very different, the .22LR mags are skinny. A .223 mag could literally be shoved into the magwell, but it won't go anywhere with the .22 upper in place.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:23:15 PM EDT
How can a .22 LR magazine even be close to the form factor of a .223? The conversion kit wouldn't even allow you to chamber a .223 round. Anyway, I always though that you could "evil" up .22 LR rifles with things like pistol grips, detachable mag, etc... just like the Walther G22 and its bulpup design.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:32:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By foogoo:
So in other words it should be okay? The form-factor of the magazines is actually very different, the .22LR mags are skinny. A .223 mag could literally be shoved into the magwell, but it won't go anywhere with the .22 upper in place.



I am would still argue that any non-listed Vulcan lower which can accept the standard centerfire parts such as a magazine and .223 upper receiver, is too risky to dabble with.

How is a .22LR Vulcan lower receiver assembly w/ detachable magazine different from the centerfire one ? Is the receiver stamped with caliber .22LR or .223/5.56 ?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:18:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fun2none:

Originally Posted By foogoo:
It isn't a centerfire afteralll... All AR15 lower receivers will likely be listed however, so assuming the Vulcan is not added to the list, would I be able to unpin the mag and immediately slap on a .22 kit?



I would strongly advise against removing the fixed magazine to install a .22 LR kit that can accept detachable .22LR magazines. AFAIK, there is no difference in form factor between .22 LR and standard .223 magazine. Once the fixed mag is released, the receiver will accept a standard .223 (centerfire) as well as the .22LR magazine.



A .22LR magazine does not have the groove runnning the length of the magazine (towards the rear of the magazine well) If you fill that groove in the back of a magazine well on a lower, it will be forced to only accept .22LR magazines.... It should work the same with caliber conversions (.45ACP, 9mm) or at least all the magazine blocks I've seen in those calibers have the aforementioned groove.

Iggy is such a pain in the butt to get a hold of in regards to building a prototype of this type...
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:14:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

A .22LR magazine does not have the groove runnning the length of the magazine (towards the rear of the magazine well) If you fill that groove in the back of a magazine well on a lower, it will be forced to only accept .22LR magazines. It should work the same with caliber conversions (.45ACP, 9mm) or at least all the magazine blocks I've seen in those calibers have the aforementioned groove.

Iggy is such a pain in the butt to get a hold of in regards to building a prototype of this type...



If the receiver is modified to accept .22 LR magazine only then it is not a standard AR lower. Foogoo asked about adding a .22 kit to a Vulcan receiver, which I highly doubt has the magazine guide groove filled in. Most of the .22 conversion kits that I have seen advertised are designed to work with standard AR lowers.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:04:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fun2none:

Originally Posted By foogoo:
So in other words it should be okay? The form-factor of the magazines is actually very different, the .22LR mags are skinny. A .223 mag could literally be shoved into the magwell, but it won't go anywhere with the .22 upper in place.



I am would still argue that any non-listed Vulcan lower which can accept the standard centerfire parts such as a magazine and .223 upper receiver, is too risky to dabble with.

How is a .22LR Vulcan lower receiver assembly w/ detachable magazine different from the centerfire one ? Is the receiver stamped with caliber .22LR or .223/5.56 ?

You have to look at the complete rifle.

A lower is just a lower. Can the complete rifle chamber and fire ceterfire ammo? If the answer is no its okay.

The only way a .22LR home assebled is going to get you into trouble is if you also have the 5.56mm BCG with the rifle. then the cops/DA can argue constructive possession.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:34:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0311-m249:
I was wondering that too, might be handy to keep my cali legal bushmaster 223 next to a 22lr AR and just swap uppers when prudent.



And after the DA shows the Monte Python wink-wink nod-dod video and shows this post, what do you think a jury might do if asked to find you knew you were breaking the law? wink-wink nod-nod
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:46:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
You have to look at the complete rifle.

A lower is just a lower. Can the complete rifle chamber and fire ceterfire ammo? If the answer is no its okay.

The only way a .22LR home assebled is going to get you into trouble is if you also have the 5.56mm BCG with the rifle. then the cops/DA can argue constructive possession.



So if that's the case, this doesn't have anything to do with the Kasler list then right? I can unpin the mag and .22ize it anytime?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:19:13 PM EDT
From a CADOJ response.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Your request for information has been received and review. All "AR"
series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber. "AR" style rifles/lower receivers
manufactured to only accept ..22LR rimfire are not controlled as assault
weapons but adding a .22LR rimfire upper to a an "AR" series lower
receiver is not permissable. If you have any further questions or
concerns please feel free to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:18:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hycheng:
All "AR" series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber.



Sounds like pre-Harrot talk. Does this letter still apply today?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:41:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By foogoo:

Originally Posted By hycheng:
All "AR" series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber.



Sounds like pre-Harrot talk. Does this letter still apply today?



Only if the lower is on The List.


Originally Posted By hycheng:
From a CADOJ response.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Your request for information has been received and review. All "AR"
series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber. "AR" style rifles/lower receivers
manufactured to only accept ..22LR rimfire are not controlled as assault
weapons
but adding a .22LR rimfire upper to a an "AR" series lower
receiver is not permissable. If you have any further questions or
concerns please feel free to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division



Gosh, I so want a dedicated .22LR AR-look-alike rifle. Iggggggy, call me back!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:57:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hycheng:
From a CADOJ response.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Your request for information has been received and review. All "AR"
series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber. "AR" style rifles/lower receivers
manufactured to only accept ..22LR rimfire are not controlled as assault
weapons but adding a .22LR rimfire upper to a an "AR" series lower
receiver is not permissable. If you have any further questions or
concerns please feel free to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division



When was this letter received and what EXACTLY did you ask them?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:59:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
22Rimfires are exempt. A stag lower assembled with a upper containing a 22LR conversion complies with both the intent and the letter of the law. remove the 22LR conversion and install a centerfire BCG and its illegal.



Yeah but what if the lower says .223/5.56 on the side of the lower?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:22:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 2:34:02 AM EDT by NeoWeird]
I think you are all looking at it a bit too biased like. You're all pro-gun and using common sense and logic, when we know those who enforce the laws and prosecute are rarely pro-gun, and almost never use common sense or logic. That being said I will point out two facts:

1. You have a receiver for a semi-automatic rifle with a pistol grip and a removable magazine that is marked for a centerfire cartdridge.

2. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon.


Do you really want to get into a 'no I didn't'/'yes you did' type of fight with a District Attourney? I know I wouldn't. Whether or not you are right it is just way too high risk, because all they would have to do is argue that at some point that upper would HAVE to come off for some reason like cleaning, repair, etc and then you have the same thing as someone who put a complete lower parts kit on their non-listed receivers. Even some gun owners would agree with that, and most people who know nothing about guns would just assume what they say as fact, and you KNOW they are going to screen the jury to get as many gun-know-nothings up there who will just believe what the DA says because you are an evil AW owning liar on trial.

If you REALLY want to do it, I would suggest either permanently attaching a piece of metal that cross the magwell on the top side of the receiver, or drilling and tapping through the walls and adding a screw and then grinding the head off. Then just take some hand tools to the mag (most of them are just hollow bodies and are easy to mod) until the mag slide up in the magwell and around the newly added piece of metal. The .22 mags work, but it would prevent any centerfire mags from being seated.

ETA: I just realized something. Like someone said, most 22 mags don't have that rear ridge on the back of the amgazine (where the follower's foot goes in the mag). The Vulcan uses the channel for that ridge to hold in their mags. *DING*! Remove the mag and replace the pin with a cotter pin from a hardware store for about $.05. AR mags can't be seated, but .22LR can and it would require no additional alterations to the receiver.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:11:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hycheng:
From a CADOJ response.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Your request for information has been received and review. All "AR"
series firearms are controlled as assault weapons regardless of
their characteristics or caliber. "AR" style rifles/lower receivers
manufactured to only accept ..22LR rimfire are not controlled as assault
weapons but adding a .22LR rimfire upper to a an "AR" series lower
receiver is not permissable. If you have any further questions or
concerns please feel free to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division



You have to use a no-name Stag/Fulton/DAS lower. Then its not an "AR Series"
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:13:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
22Rimfires are exempt. A stag lower assembled with a upper containing a 22LR conversion complies with both the intent and the letter of the law. remove the 22LR conversion and install a centerfire BCG and its illegal.



Yeah but what if the lower says .223/5.56 on the side of the lower?



It can say 20mm flak cannon on the side. If it only shoots rimfire its okay.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:08:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
I think you are all looking at it a bit too biased like. You're all pro-gun and using common sense and logic, when we know those who enforce the laws and prosecute are rarely pro-gun, and almost never use common sense or logic.



I dunno, of all the LEOs I have spoken to, all of them are against Gun Control because "criminals inherently break the law and will ignore it" and "it only restricts law-abiding people."

And this was in Contra Costa County!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:07:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
I think you are all looking at it a bit too biased like. You're all pro-gun and using common sense and logic, when we know those who enforce the laws and prosecute are rarely pro-gun, and almost never use common sense or logic.



I dunno, of all the LEOs I have spoken to, all of them are against Gun Control because "criminals inherently break the law and will ignore it" and "it only restricts law-abiding people."

And this was in Contra Costa County!



Maybe it's just me, but it seems that if I don't meet them on the boards, at a range, in a gunshop, etc than more often than not they are not pro-gun (maybe not anti-gun, but they are not pro-gun). Of course that is based on only 4 or 5 that I have talked to, so it could be a poor conclusion to make from such a smaller number.
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