Posted: 4/25/2009 7:02:47 PM EDT
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What part of the SBR gets a serial number or a SBR'ed? receiver? barrel? What is the best option , in the event that I ever want to reverse the SBR.
Any suggestions would be appreciated it. Thanks, |
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Not sure I understand the question, but I will try.
On a SBR you use the existing serial #. The engraving that you must do (maker and location) can be on the receiver (the part with the serial #) or the barrel. Its your choice but the receiver is by far more popular to engrave. Remember that the engraving has to be visible. For example you cant engrave on the barrel under the hand guard or on the receiver on the inside of the mag well. If you ever want to undo the SBR status on the rifle you can call the NFA branch and they will start the process. You don't get a tax refund when you do this. Like the previous poster said, you can put whatever length barrel you want on the gun without having to undo the SBR status. Rob, 03sot |
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There is some REAL bad advice here .....
1. You engrave the receiver and the receiver ONLY ... The receiver is the registered part that you are making "hence the form 1". You are not asking to make the barrel so why engrave it?. What good is engraving the barrel on an sbr if you need to swap the barrel out? Better yet how about if you were to separate the upper from the lower and you happen to get inspected by the atf and they dont see the lower engraved? 2. You can only use the size barrel you noted on the form 1. If you want to use a different length barrel you need to send a note to the ATF saying so. 3. READ and ask around at the class 3 forum, this is FL HTF and even though there are many here who know what they are talking about many dont ... |
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There is some REAL bad advice here ..... 2. You can only use the size barrel you noted on the form 1. If you want to use a different length barrel you need to send a note to the ATF saying so. No kidding. You can temporarily change the configuration of your SBR say from 10.5" to 12". Say you have 2 uppers with different barrel lengths, you can use either provided the rifle can be returned to it's registered configuration. If you want to change the registered length you must notify the ATF in writing. |
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There is some REAL bad advice here ..... 2. You can only use the size barrel you noted on the form 1. If you want to use a different length barrel you need to send a note to the ATF saying so. No kidding. You can temporarily change the configuration of your SBR say from 10.5" to 12". Say you have 2 uppers with different barrel lengths, you can use either provided the rifle can be returned to it's registered configuration. If you want to change the registered length you must notify the ATF in writing. Can you show me where it says this anywhere on the ATF's site? What I have heard directly from my examiner is that you can sway the upper to a different length unless you notify the ATF in writing PRIOR ... |
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There is some REAL bad advice here ..... 2. You can only use the size barrel you noted on the form 1. If you want to use a different length barrel you need to send a note to the ATF saying so. No kidding. You can temporarily change the configuration of your SBR say from 10.5" to 12". Say you have 2 uppers with different barrel lengths, you can use either provided the rifle can be returned to it's registered configuration. If you want to change the registered length you must notify the ATF in writing. Can you show me where it says this anywhere on the ATF's site? What I have heard directly from my examiner is that you can sway the upper to a different length unless you notify the ATF in writing PRIOR ... You can temporarily change the barrel length at anytime as long as it can go back to its original configuration. Also you can engrave the maker information on the barrel it does not have to be the receiver, however if you go this route each barrel must be engraved to match the form 1. |
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There is some REAL bad advice here ..... 2. You can only use the size barrel you noted on the form 1. If you want to use a different length barrel you need to send a note to the ATF saying so. No kidding. You can temporarily change the configuration of your SBR say from 10.5" to 12". Say you have 2 uppers with different barrel lengths, you can use either provided the rifle can be returned to it's registered configuration. If you want to change the registered length you must notify the ATF in writing. Can you show me where it says this anywhere on the ATF's site? What I have heard directly from my examiner is that you can sway the upper to a different length unless you notify the ATF in writing PRIOR ... You can temporarily change the barrel length at anytime as long as it can go back to its original configuration. Also you can engrave the maker information on the barrel it does not have to be the receiver, however if you go this route each barrel must be engraved to match the form 1. Again can someone show me this on the ATF site? They have personally told me otherwise ... Knowing the ATF's stance changes regularly I will only follow written procedure ... |
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Again can someone show me this on the ATF site? They have personally told me otherwise ... Knowing the ATF's stance changes regularly I will only follow written procedure ... Here is some information (paraphrased) from the 2009 NFA Handbook: CHAPTER 6. MAKING NFA FIREARMS BY NONLICENSEE 6.2.1 Description of firearm. All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements. Section 7.4 The identification of firearms. 7.4.1 Serial numbers. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm.120 The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. 7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (1) The model, if such designation has been made; (2) The caliber or gauge; (3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and (4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place of business. It would seem that if you manufacture the SBR on a Form 1, the serial number will already be on the receiver, but you can engrave your name and city on the barrel. Every factory SBR I have seen has all that information on the receiver. Every Form 1 SBR I have personally seen has that information engraved on the receiver as well. The one ATF agent that I asked this of stated that the information must be on the receiver as well. More importantly, the dealer who handles all my NFA transactions strongly recommends this information go on the receiver, and I trust his judgment. All my SBRs are on Form 4's but I am thinking of building one on a Form 1. If I do, it will be my decision/choice to engrave the receiver. YMMV. |
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But, this is another issue of the ATF saying two different things simitaniously... Reminds me of the old "Common Knowledge" skit on SNL where the questions are selected by Princeton professors and the "correct" answers are determined through a poll of high school students. |
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http://www.atf.gov/pub/nfab/index.htm
Changes to the Description of a Registered Firearm When there is a change in the configuration of or a modification to a registered firearm, the registrant should notify the NFA Branch in writing so that the NFRTR can reflect the accurate description of the firearm. Should means that it would be advisable to inform them of the change. They cannot require you to do so because the National Firearms act simply states you must have paid your tax for a rifle with a barrel of less than 16 inches, if you have done so you are fine. That being said any person whowishes to stay on the good side of BATFE would let them know promptly of any permanent changes in the description. |
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listen .... May sounds kind of "gray" for me ...
Let me add something ... I have had FHP call the ATF on me because they wanted to verify the legality of my class 3 paperwork on items I had on me. That agent measured and verified everything on my paperwork.. I have no doubt that if my rifle had a longer or shorter barrel or was not clearly marked it would not of gone home with me that night. You guys do what you want ... but the fact remains ... if your paperwork says the rifle has a 7" barrel and it does not you will probably getting yourself in a heap of trouble ... |
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Miami02TJ, I'll have to disagree with you on the barrel length issue.
As noted above, ATF does request that you notify them of any permanent change in configuration. That is because by law, they are required to maintain the NFA Registry to the highest possible levels of accuracy. OTOH, there is no law requiring that you notify them of any change. And last time I looked, our entire legal system is based on the concept that any act is legal unless there is a law prohibiting it. There is no law against changing the length of a firearm's barrel, unless doing so moves it from one firearm legal definition and category (for instance, a Title 1 rifle) to another (a Short-Barrelled Rifle). To make a change like that, you do need approval, which is the Form 1 application. A Short-Barrelled Rifle registered with a 10" barrel remains a Short-Barrelled Rifle if you switch to a 7", or 14", or any other sub-16" length barrel, without notifying ATF. You have broken no laws. If you get hassled by LE (and I have never been in decades of NFA ownership), you can CYA by writing a letter to BATFE/W.Va. saying you are the registered owner of SBR SN 12345 and that while an xx" barrel remains the primary configuration, it will also be used on occasion with barrels in caliber abc and length xx", caliber def and lengths yy" and zz", etc. Send the letter in duplicate and ask that they stamp one copy as "received" and return it in the stamped self-addressed envelope. That will give you something to show FHP next time you get pulled over by that trooper. But again, that is a CYA measure. There is no law prohibiting temporary barrel changes (or permanent ones, for that matter). There is no crime with which you can be charged. NFA firearms require registration, but that's about it: Just like a car or truck, once registered, you can paint it a different color, swap the 6-cyl for a V8, change the gross weight ... all of which are specified on your registration and title. It no longer meets the description on that title –– but what crime have you committed? 
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What did the agent use to measure your barrel ? an 8.5" X 11" piece of paper  FWIW, the official ATF Tech Branch method for measuring barrel length: ––Empty the gun. ––Remove any removable muzzle attachments. ––Close action and drop a wood dowel down the bore until it touches the boltface. ––Mark the dowel where it clears the muzzle. Remove barrel and measure distance on the dowel from muzzle mark to boltface end. That's the legal length under federal law (a few states have different ways specified in state laws). |
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What did the agent use to measure your barrel ? an 8.5" X 11" piece of paper FWIW, the official ATF Tech Branch method for measuring barrel length: ––Empty the gun. ––Remove any removable muzzle attachments. ––Close action and drop a wood dowel down the bore until it touches the boltface. ––Mark the dowel where it clears the muzzle. Remove barrel and measure distance on the dowel from muzzle mark to boltface end. That's the legal length under federal law (a few states have different ways specified in state laws). I guess in Miami the "loose leaf" method is still preferred
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Guys can we all just get along...kidding aside, great information but I will be converting several SIG 556P and I don't plan to change the barrel lenght anytime soon. Now who do you guys know in South Florida that can do the engraving on the SIG 556P? I would appreciate anyone who you have done business with and they have done an excellent job on the engraving.
I live in Miami, FL and this is my first SBR. Also which dealer can handle the SBR in South Florida, prefer in Miami as my first option. Thanks to all...... |
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For what it's worth... my SBR form 4 only says "< 16 inches". In the future, this will be how my form 1s are filled out as well. David FWIW, up until a year or two ago, ATF would approve a transfer with a "less than" measurement. Today, the policy is to require a single measurement. Some still get through with "less than's" but it it gets bounced (and you have to deal with an additional delay), don't be surprised. 
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Quoted: I had heard that... but I would be willing to get the bounce for the chance to get the "less than" through. After the 1st bounce... I guess I would go by the 'rulez' from that point forward. Quoted: For what it's worth... my SBR form 4 only says "< 16 inches". In the future, this will be how my form 1s are filled out as well. David FWIW, up until a year or two ago, ATF would approve a transfer with a "less than" measurement. Today, the policy is to require a single measurement. Some still get through with "less than's" but it it gets bounced (and you have to deal with an additional delay), don't be surprised.  Thanks Tony! David DIBBS!! Page 2 is mine! All mine! |