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Posted: 1/24/2006 4:54:58 AM EDT
Had anybody have their Form 1 signed off by the cleo here in jax? I need some advise and insight. I have a Bushey Carbon pistol 9mm and want to put a stock on it. ATF emailed me with some info but I need someone who actually went through it here in JAX.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:19:21 AM EDT
Do you live in Duval County or one of the surrounding counties? If you live in Duval, you're SOL and your best bet would be to go the corporate or trust route. Sheriff Rutherford does not sign off on SBRs or suppressors in Jacksonville. If you're in St Johns County, like me, it's all good.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:09:27 AM EDT
I've heard of a case where he signed off on a SBR, he just doesn't sign off on Silencers.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Do you live in Duval County or one of the surrounding counties? If you live in Duval, you're SOL and your best bet would be to go the corporate or trust route. Sheriff Rutherford does not sign off on SBRs or suppressors in Jacksonville. If you're in St Johns County, like me, it's all good.


I do live in Duval...Give me some details on these corporate and trust route...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:45:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I've heard of a case where he signed off on a SBR, he just doesn't sign off on Silencers.


Do you have to bring this up to him personally and ask for his John Hancock? If so, will it help to walk in there with my US NAVY uniform?LOL
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:51:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vdeleon:

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Do you live in Duval County or one of the surrounding counties? If you live in Duval, you're SOL and your best bet would be to go the corporate or trust route. Sheriff Rutherford does not sign off on SBRs or suppressors in Jacksonville. If you're in St Johns County, like me, it's all good.


I do live in Duval...Give me some details on these corporate and trust route...



Not super positive on how the LLC works, but according to dtarbox, an LLC is super easy to do and takes about 15 minutes on the internet to set up, at least that's how he did it. As for the trust, there're a couple threads here and in the M16 forums that discuss trusts and what not.

Trust Discussions
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vdeleon:

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I've heard of a case where he signed off on a SBR, he just doesn't sign off on Silencers.


Do you have to bring this up to him personally and ask for his John Hancock? If so, will it help to walk in there with my US NAVY uniform?LOL


Yeah I think you have to schedule an appointment with the guy, so dressing nice might help

I went the Trust route, it was cheaper than a Corp and alot easier than a signoff.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:22:04 AM EDT
Just pipe dreaming here, but I would love to see a writ of mandamus imposed on every CLEO in the state.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:46:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Just pipe dreaming here, but I would love to see a writ of mandamus imposed on every CLEO in the state.



English, please.

What exactly is that and what would it do? Obviously only happeneing in Never Never Land, and not where we live....just curious.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 11:55:42 AM EDT by stangboy555]

MANDAMUS - The name of a writ, the principal word of which when the proceedings were in Latin, was mandamus, we command.

It is a command issuing in the name of the sovereign authority from a superior court having jurisdiction, and is directed to some person, corporation, or, inferior court, within the jurisdiction of such superior court, requiring them to do some particular thing therein specified, which appertains to their office and duty, and which the superior court has previously determined, or at least supposes to be consonant to right and justice.

Mandamus is not a writ of right, it is not consequently granted of course, but only at the discretion of the court to whom the application for it is made; and this discretion is not exercised in favor of the applicant, unless some just and useful purpose may be answered by the writ.

This writ was introduced io prevent disorders from a failure of justice; therefore it ought to be used upon all occasions where the law has established no specific remedy, and where in justice and good government there ought to be one. Mandamus will not lie where the law has given another specific remedy.

The 13th section of the act of congress of Sept. 24, 1789, gives the Supreme Court power to issue writs of mandamus in cases warranted by the principles and usages of law, to any courts appointed or persons holding office, under the authority of the United States. The issuing of a mandamus to courts, is the exercise of an appellate jurisdiction, and, therefore constitutionally vested in the supreme court; but a mandamus directed to a public officer, belongs to original jurisdiction, and by the constitution, the exercise of original jurisdiction by the supreme court is restricted to certain specified cases, which do not comprehend a mandamus. The latter clause of the above section, authorizing this writ to be issued by the supreme court to persons holding office under the authority of the United States, is, therefore, not warranted by the constitution and void.

The circuit courts of the United States may also issue writs of mandamus, but their power in this particular is confined exclusively to those cases in which it may be necessary to the exercise of their jurisdiction.


In short, it's an order from the Court that says that the Sheriff has to sign off on everything
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:57:20 AM EDT
A writ of mandamus "issues from a court of superior jurisdiction, and is directed . . . to an executive, administrative, or judicial officer . . . commanding the performance of a particular act therein specified, and belonging to his or their public, official, or ministerial duty, or directing the restoration of the complainant to rights or priviliges of which he has been illegally deprived."

-Black's Law Dictionary, 6th edition, 1990.

A sheriff, judge, police chief, or district attorney has no official duty to sign off on your form four. Therefore, there is no way a court of law is going to issue a writ directing the CLEO to sign something he is not obligated to sign. The CLEO would continue to refuse to sign, and the issuing court would appear stupid and powerless. So forget about obtaining a writ of mandamus in this situation, because it is not going to happen.


Like I said.... just pipe dreaming.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:59:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 12:01:26 PM EDT by vdeleon]

Originally Posted By stangboy555:

Originally Posted By vdeleon:

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I've heard of a case where he signed off on a SBR, he just doesn't sign off on Silencers.


Do you have to bring this up to him personally and ask for his John Hancock? If so, will it help to walk in there with my US NAVY uniform?LOL


Yeah I think you have to schedule an appointment with the guy, so dressing nice might help

I went the Trust route, it was cheaper than a Corp and alot easier than a signoff.



So with a trust in hand , completed form1, & $200, this is all you need to send to ATF?

what's this engraving part I read on some discussions...is it necessary? IF so, do we have a place here in Jax that engraves receivers?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:19:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Just pipe dreaming here, but I would love to see a writ of mandamus imposed on every CLEO in the state.



Yeah no shit! I would love to see that!

His reasoning is that why would he sign off on a SBR or Silencer for somebody where it is illegal to discharge a firearm with in the city limits. He says that it would be abading *spelling* a felon.

Yeah, so let's not make cars that go over the speed limit, because that would technically be the same thing right?
Also I guess he's never heard of a range. Also I wonder how officers train in JAX if they can't discharge a weapon with in the city limits.....`
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:30:53 PM EDT
I actually voted for the guy......my mistake. Maybe we could get all Duval County members send him a note about his stance on SBR and silencers for law abiding citizens....
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:08:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 8:09:09 PM EDT by stangboy555]

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Just pipe dreaming here, but I would love to see a writ of mandamus imposed on every CLEO in the state.



Yeah no shit! I would love to see that!

His reasoning is that why would he sign off on a SBR or Silencer for somebody where it is illegal to discharge a firearm with in the city limits. He says that it would be abading *spelling* a felon.

Yeah, so let's not make cars that go over the speed limit, because that would technically be the same thing right?
Also I guess he's never heard of a range. Also I wonder how officers train in JAX if they can't discharge a weapon with in the city limits.....`


Did he deny you for an SBR? Like I said, I knew someone who got signed off for an SBR, he just doesn't sign on silencers. If he did, he's a hypocritical asshole.
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