Armory Sponsor
Posted: 12/30/2011 2:27:32 PM EDT
Awhile back I was out shooting my 21k built by a well known builder- for no good reason the gun stopped mid-belt. This was the first malfunction I've ever had with this gun (about 1500 rounds). I racked the BC back, and found this:
I didn't notice any different sounds or the puff of smoke (if you've ever shot a 21k you know that would not be unusual). Someone was taking pics at the instant this happened. 
When you look at the mechanics of how the HK locks, most people would tell you that an OOB is impossible in the HK system.....they can't account for the deep primer hit and the case head separation. It's just a mystery that we all accept. I sent this back to the builder- he couldn't find anything wrong.....he recommended using good quality ammo. That was it. I trust him so there you go, but there's that deep primer hit and the case separation...... What do you think? |
| When my roller lock guns get hot they all hate Wolf steel case ammo. I had something similar happen to a HK53 awhile back. The extractor broke the back of the case off and the case was so swollen tight in the breach, I had to soak it in Break free for a couple days before I managed to break it loose. The gun was hot at the time. I asume it was the ammo. I have never fire wolf out of it again and have had zero issues in the last 1k or so. |
| Could it be when it heats up enough the laquer or whatever on the steel gets partially melted so it wants to stick in there? I haven't had a problem with tula through my ptr91 but i don't ever get it too hot I'm cheap hehe. Or maybe their was a metal defect in that casing of some sort? |
|
WOLF means Idiot in english. I cant count the number of people that I know or have heard of that FU'd guns using Wolf ammo. Even when I fired some polymer coated wolf a few times in an AR 15 parts gun you could hear and feel the diffeernce in loadings. Their quality control is just crap. I will not use Wolf in any of my guns. Not only is it both high and low power on loads but its the dirtiest ammo I've even seen. Look at thye photo from the OP and the amount of smoke coming from the gun. Look at the number of manufacturers who say don't use Wolf or steel cased ammo in their guns.
|
|
Quoted:
Could it be when it heats up enough the laquer or whatever on the steel gets partially melted so it wants to stick in there? I haven't had a problem with tula through my ptr91 but i don't ever get it too hot I'm cheap hehe. Or maybe their was a metal defect in that casing of some sort? The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating. This is a simple defective case. HK guns are notoriously hard of cases and this defective one lost its rim during extraction. It happens to brass too. Quoted:
WOLF means Idiot in english. I cant count the number of people that I know or have heard of that FU'd guns using Wolf ammo. Even when I fired some polymer coated wolf a few times in an AR 15 parts gun you could hear and feel the diffeernce in loadings. Their quality control is just crap. I will not use Wolf in any of my guns. Not only is it both high and low power on loads but its the dirtiest ammo I've even seen. Look at thye photo from the OP and the amount of smoke coming from the gun. Look at the number of manufacturers who say don't use Wolf or steel cased ammo in their guns.  So did Wolf actually damage the rifle or are you exaggerating a simple stuck case in order to justify your silly position?
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Could it be when it heats up enough the laquer or whatever on the steel gets partially melted so it wants to stick in there? I haven't had a problem with tula through my ptr91 but i don't ever get it too hot I'm cheap hehe. Or maybe their was a metal defect in that casing of some sort? The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating. This is a simple defective case. HK guns are notoriously hard of cases and this defective one lost its rim during extraction. It happens to brass too. Quoted:
WOLF means Idiot in english. I cant count the number of people that I know or have heard of that FU'd guns using Wolf ammo. Even when I fired some polymer coated wolf a few times in an AR 15 parts gun you could hear and feel the diffeernce in loadings. Their quality control is just crap. I will not use Wolf in any of my guns. Not only is it both high and low power on loads but its the dirtiest ammo I've even seen. Look at thye photo from the OP and the amount of smoke coming from the gun. Look at the number of manufacturers who say don't use Wolf or steel cased ammo in their guns. So did Wolf actually damage the rifle or are you exaggerating a simple stuck case in order to justify your silly position?
Tagged for a repley to the  Idiot? It depends how you look at it. First Ive never heard of Wolf damaging a gun. That being said Ive put 10s of thousands of rounds of Wolf down range. When not shooting in a rifle, doing accuracy drills or compitetion. You would have to be a Idiot not to go the cheapest route. A average range trip for me runs $200-400 in ammo. I like to shoot. So I punch holes in paper with Wolf. My roller lock HKs dont like it when hot, but I use it accordingly. You want to damage a gun? Use someone elses reloads.....................Just sayin
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Could it be when it heats up enough the laquer or whatever on the steel gets partially melted so it wants to stick in there? I haven't had a problem with tula through my ptr91 but i don't ever get it too hot I'm cheap hehe. Or maybe their was a metal defect in that casing of some sort? The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating. This is a simple defective case. HK guns are notoriously hard of cases and this defective one lost its rim during extraction. It happens to brass too. Quoted:
WOLF means Idiot in english. I cant count the number of people that I know or have heard of that FU'd guns using Wolf ammo. Even when I fired some polymer coated wolf a few times in an AR 15 parts gun you could hear and feel the diffeernce in loadings. Their quality control is just crap. I will not use Wolf in any of my guns. Not only is it both high and low power on loads but its the dirtiest ammo I've even seen. Look at thye photo from the OP and the amount of smoke coming from the gun. Look at the number of manufacturers who say don't use Wolf or steel cased ammo in their guns. So did Wolf actually damage the rifle or are you exaggerating a simple stuck case in order to justify your silly position?
Tagged for a repley to the Idiot? It depends how you look at it. First Ive never heard of Wolf damaging a gun. That being said Ive put 10s of thousands of rounds of Wolf down range. When not shooting in a rifle, doing accuracy drills or compitetion. You would have to be a Idiot not to go the cheapest route. A average range trip for me runs $200-400 in ammo. I like to shoot. So I punch holes in paper with Wolf. My roller lock HKs dont like it when hot, but I use it accordingly. You want to damage a gun? Use someone elses reloads.....................Just sayinI think we know his answer. He used the opportunity of a simple case head separation to launch a simplistic tirade on Wolf. I've noticed Wolf haters will declare "steel case is shit if it has a problem" and declare brass case as "just a bad round". |
|
Quoted:
The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating. This is a simple defective case. That makes more sense I mean even if it could melt, now that I think of it if it was that hot in the chamber that it made it melt in the time sitting in there before being ejected its not gonna cool down enough again to stick. Metal defects are common and makes more sense, I mean heck when I was a infantryman I had to check the brass stuff uncle Sam gave us when loading mags cause dinged up cases that wouldn't feed were not uncommon. I like steel ammo for plinking the only one I've had problems with is the tula 9mm way to inconsistent in quality control one box would fire fine next every other round would fte. The 7.62/39, .223, and 7.62/51 are all good to go from my experience though so I definitely wouldn't call it idiot ammo but I guess some people just like to be rude to others for no logical reason. Oh one last question I'm not very familiar with the hk belt feds are they open or closed bolt? Cause if it's open bolt occasional problems should be expected anyways its just not the most reliable system for every round. Can't tell you how many times I've seen stupid problems with the dam m249s, of course the 240s didn't have nearly as many problems and they were open bolt as well but now I'm way off topic. beautiful gun have fun with her. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating. This is a simple defective case. That makes more sense I mean even if it could melt, now that I think of it if it was that hot in the chamber that it made it melt in the time sitting in there before being ejected its not gonna cool down enough again to stick. Metal defects are common and makes more sense, I mean heck when I was a infantryman I had to check the brass stuff uncle Sam gave us when loading mags cause dinged up cases that wouldn't feed were not uncommon. I like steel ammo for plinking the only one I've had problems with is the tula 9mm way to inconsistent in quality control one box would fire fine next every other round would fte. The 7.62/39, .223, and 7.62/51 are all good to go from my experience though so I definitely wouldn't call it idiot ammo but I guess some people just like to be rude to others for no logical reason. Oh one last question I'm not very familiar with the hk belt feds are they open or closed bolt? Cause if it's open bolt occasional problems should be expected anyways its just not the most reliable system for every round. Can't tell you how many times I've seen stupid problems with the dam m249s, of course the 240s didn't have nearly as many problems and they were open bolt as well but now I'm way off topic. beautiful gun have fun with her. This video explains alot http://youtu.be/P5ZB3UfG960 |
|
Quoted: Simple case head separation. The mushroom on the end is from the gasses blowing out the end of the case and forming it to the chamber, most likely unlocking the gun at the same time. If the pressure is not contained in the case then it will try to blow the chamber open (all rifles). In a HK case, it will overcome the rollers and unlock it. Awhile back I was out shooting my 21k built by a well known builder- for no good reason the gun stopped mid-belt. This was the first malfunction I've ever had with this gun (about 1500 rounds). I racked the BC back, and found this: http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd74/eyegun/photo-1.jpg I didn't notice any different sounds or the puff of smoke (if you've ever shot a 21k you know that would not be unusual). Someone was taking pics at the instant this happened. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd74/eyegun/CECshooting278.jpg When you look at the mechanics of how the HK locks, most people would tell you that an OOB is impossible in the HK system.....they can't account for the deep primer hit and the case head separation. It's just a mystery that we all accept. I sent this back to the builder- he couldn't find anything wrong.....he recommended using good quality ammo. That was it. I trust him so there you go, but there's that deep primer hit and the case separation...... What do you think? Ive stopped running wolf for the most part through my MGs. The 308 would work okay but it was too dirty and smokey for me. I run my MGs on silver bear if I can find it. MFS ammo is as cheap as wolf and better IMO |
|
Quoted:
WOLF means Idiot in english. I cant count the number of people that I know or have heard of that FU'd guns using Wolf ammo. Even when I fired some polymer coated wolf a few times in an AR 15 parts gun you could hear and feel the diffeernce in loadings. Their quality control is just crap. I will not use Wolf in any of my guns. Not only is it both high and low power on loads but its the dirtiest ammo I've even seen. Look at thye photo from the OP and the amount of smoke coming from the gun. Look at the number of manufacturers who say don't use Wolf or steel cased ammo in their guns. You do understand that Wolf is simply an importer, not a manufacturer, correct? This means that there are numerous different manufacturers and to make a blanket statement such as 'Wolf means idiot in english' is moronic. |
|
Quoted:
I'd blame it on the ammo. Do you always run wolf through it or is this your first time? I think this was the first time for Wolf in that gun. I'm coming to the conclusion that it WAS a simple case blow-out. The gun checked out OK by the (well known and trusted) builder. The bolt HAD to have been locked in order for that primer hit to occur. The steel case just wasn't doing its job in containing the pressure. Wolf ammo (that's what the box said, regardless of who actually made it- that's all I have to go on) record with me is mediocre. I've had 2 9mm squibs, this blowout, and a sideways primer in .223 Maybe I'm just a slow learner. |
|
The lacquer does NOT melt, nor does the polymer coating.
My years of engineering experience and personal knowledge of the high temperature displacement of polymer from the steel Wolf case to the inside of my chrome lined chamber will clearly dispute this statement as incorrect. It may be unrelated to the failure in this thread, but at least the OP, hopefully, has a registered sear pack that can be moved to another host, after he eventually manages to grenade his HK. Sure, I used to be a naysayer, and ran Wolf for several years. But, once it fucks you, you will remember that fucking like your first high school pussy. 
|
Armory Sponsor