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Posted: 10/21/2010 2:43:17 PM EDT
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This rifle seems like a great design, and has a lot of features that much newer rifles are being designed with. In fact, the G36 looks a lot like the ACR, especially in the grip area. Why was this rifle never popular in the US? Is it due to import restrictions? Why did HK bother with the 416, as it seems like a step backwards? Was it to meet some requirements for the military? Also, anyone with a G36 please post pr0n for us to see. Is the Mexican FX-05 a copy of the G36? I read something about a recoiling barrel assembly utilized in the FX-05.  |
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The only things I know about US weapon acquisition is that it seems incredibly flawed/inefficient and it's as political as it is technical.
That said, the US basically developed the G36 for the Germans via the XM8 program, which was eventually shelved after who knows how many US$ were spent. I've shot and played with the 36 a number of times and it is an extremely simple weapon; AK-ishly so. German soldiers like it but then again their point of reference is the G3 (nothing wrong with the G3 but it's apples:oranges, like comparing the M14 to the M4). As for the 416, I'm not quite sure how we and/or HK mucked this one up. While it had some customer support issues at least early on, every one seemed to like the 416 upper. They had to be taken away by order from those who had them because they liked them. Again, a political move as "the" Army didn't want anyone to have anything perceived to be an improvement on theM4. In my book, it would have been the easiest way to solve the "we have to have a new rifle" dilemma. Now I am NOT saying this is the route we should have taken or that we even need a new rifle, but from the Army's point of view, an upper swap would have been the easiest (but not the best) way to do what they are trying to do and HK had it. |
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The HKG36 is an outstanding weapon. Its exceedingly reliable and simple to operate. It has continued to evolve and improve. A few concerns thath have come up are as follows: The stock isn't great,same with the ergos. The stock flexes during recoil and when closed can have a tendency for spent cases to deflect off of it and back into the receiver. The factory optics are terribulous. Lastly, the trunion design has a tendency to transfer heat to the polymer receiver and cause zero shift after sustained firing. However, this shift usually occurs at or around the failure point of many other personal weapons which have been used as make shift LMG's.
The G36 is very well represented in the international military and LE community. US SOCOM has purchased both K and C models in limited numbers. It has also been adopted by a few federal/state/local LE agencies. Mexico procured several G36 samples and when licensing agreements couldn't be reached, they designed the FX05. Germany protested and litigated and the matter has subsequently been resolved. The weapons are very, very similar in layout and design principle. The XM8 is the best of the breed but was kneecapped because it was an entirely private sector venture and it never could "make its weight". It was heavy, took weird magazines and had a peculiar non-1913 interface system. The Spiral 3 XM8 is one of the most reliable weapons tested by the US military as of late. General Dynamics now owns the rights to this weapon and you will probably see it pop up again during the forthcoming carbine competition. The 416 was intended to right some of the XM8's wrongs. Instead of an entirely new weapons system its potentially just an upper/buffer/magazine retrofit. This saves untold sums of money and is probably the best solution to correct any perceived deficiencies with the M4. The HK416 was reasonably well represented in the US special operations community but its popularity has wained with guns like the Mk16 and Mk17 series coming online, which IMO are better weapons to begin with. A purpose built modular piston-driven weapon like the Mk17 trumps any op-rod converted M4 IMO. The HK to watch? The MG4. Best 5.56 SAW on the planet... It would repalce the M249 series if only the DoD didn't have such a hard-on for HK. The DoD hates HK like HK hates the civilian market in the US... |
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I really wish that we could get an non-neutered G36 in the US to see if it really lives up to the hype.
Does anyone know how similar the FX-05 is to the G36? I heard the operating system is quite different and this is why the Germans didn't push their suit farther. Regardless, the Mexicans could make some money off their FX-05 if they set up production here or a US company bought the rights. It would be much cheaper than trying to work out a licensing agreement with HK (if that is even possible). It is probably a non-starter though with the current drug war. |
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Yes, and mine would be negative...
German airborne forces/KSK were part of my JSOTF in Afghanistan in 2002 so I got to work with them closely. I thought the weapon was pretty flimsy and the Germans did too. The stock was especially flimsy. It was a very light weapon though. The only other complaint I heard from the Germans was the magazines would take a set if you left them loaded. I was told by my German asistant, a Captain, that the driving force behind procuring the G36 was economic The other experience Ive had with them was just observational. The Columbia MO PD adopted them (the interim Chief happens to own the HKPro board...) and they eventually gave them up due to problems with breakages etc. I dont know the specifics on this, the information was relayed to me by a Columbia PD officer. |
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Quoted:
Yes, and mine would be negative... German airborne forces/KSK were part of my JSOTF in Afghanistan in 2002 so I got to work with them closely. I thought the weapon was pretty flimsy and the Germans did too. The stock was especially flimsy. It was a very light weapon though. The only other complaint I heard from the Germans was the magazines would take a set if you left them loaded. I was told by my German asistant, a Captain, that the driving force behind procuring the G36 was economic The other experience Ive had with them was just observational. The Columbia MO PD adopted them (the interim Chief happens to own the HKPro board...) and they eventually gave them up due to problems with breakages etc. I dont know the specifics on this, the information was relayed to me by a Columbia PD officer. Thanks for the information. It definitely does seem like the G36 would be very cheap to make since it uses a lot of polymer in its construction. The SCAR and the ACR seem to be a little less extreme in their usage of plastic. I think it would be an awesome civilian rifle though if they correct some of its shortcomings like the crappy stock. They are very light weight and reliable. |
This was my SL8 to G36 conversion.
I really enjoyed the rifle, but quickly learned to hate the optics. I also disliked the G36c rail with just about anything on it. From Eotech to an ACOG, Aimpoint, to a variable power riflescope, nothing seemed to work adequately. I would probably still own it, if I could have found a good optics setup for it. I was happy to have it as a part of my collection, but I am not sure I would be pleased to have it as a main battle rifle. If I was in a different financial situation, I would own several variations of the G36; but if I had to choose one main defense/range gun, it would not be a G36. ~Icarus |
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The G36 is nothing but an updated AR-18. It was the backup plan for the West German Army if the G11 didn't work. The G11 did work but the Cold War ended and the FRG absorbed the DDR and their economy took a shit when they took a country full of welfare socialists. The H&K G41 was the best rifle they made. H&K was hopping if the G11 didn't get adoped then the G41 would. But the G41 was one pricey bastard. The G36 was simply a cheap project that got adopted because the FRG was broke but wanted new rifles. |
Too bulky. Too much plastic. Just one more piece of plastic and it would look like a Buck Rogers toy. But at least it's not as bad as the FS2000. 
The plastic makes it easy and cheap to build, and essentially disposable. That's fine for the military, who will always be able to replace it, but not so good for long-term ownership and use by civilians. Well maybe so but I like steel better. 
But the people who really ruined it is the BATFE, when then mandated that a transferable auto sear from the 9X series could not be used in one. Those bastards. The M4/M16, HK33, and HK53 are just sleeker, smoother, and easier to handle. I wouldn't mind having a G36 kit gun but I can get a genuine HK93 host for less so there's not much of a point. The sa G36 would be great if you could get a factory one for $1200. |
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I've carried one for almost 15 years as an LEO and have no complaints. Three of those were using my G36K as a primary entry weapon while assigned to the county SWAT unit. 100% reliable, easy to control, easy to manipulate, easy to breakdown, and as a rifle instructor easy to teach other cops how to use. I personally don't see how they could be considered too bulky. And the savings on weight due to the plastic parts helps when you covered in other gear. I've noticed no lack of strength or ruggedness even when kicking in doors and going in with the stack (but I don't jump out of airplanes or run my rifle in combat conditions either.) I can't compare them to other HK's in rifle calibers as my only other HK experience is with MP-5's. Also, while I am fan of the AR platform, own several of them personally and shoot them often I have and will continue to trust my life to a G36K.
I'll try to post a pic from my last range day(never posted a pic before  ). Stay safe and keep shooting
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Quoted:
This rifle seems like a great design, and has a lot of features that much newer rifles are being designed with. In fact, the G36 looks a lot like the ACR, especially in the grip area.[div] Why was this rifle never popular in the US? Is it due to import restrictions? Basically only LE or .mil could get the rifle in the real G36 form. If a real G36 had been imported, they probably would have sold a bunch on the civilian market. Keep in mind, though, that H&K has been burned before on imports. Why did HK bother with the 416, as it seems like a step backwards? Was it to meet some requirements for the military? The 416 was initially developed for an elite unit in the US military. That unit wanted something like the 416 rather than any G36 variant for a number of reasons, including a less than stellar assessment of the G36's reliability and durability. The G36 has not been a problem-free weapon design contrary to what many may hold as gospel. G36'es, especially early ones, exhibited some serious problems...some of which were seen in the development of the now aborted XM-8. Others were somewhat more minor, but still a deal breaker...like the G36C's that a federal agency purchased that couldn't hold a decent zero. The 416 spawned a lot of interest because of the unit that spawned the creation of it, but there are rumors that there was a fight within the company about the weapon as those who thought the G36 was the horse to bet H&K's future on tried to kill the 416. |
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I personally don't see how they could be considered too bulky. While many other things are highly subjective, are you really serious about this statement? Have you not noticed that almost every notable dimension (girth type, meaning width or diameter) of the G36 is 50-75% (slight exaggeration here) larger than the HK93 or AR15? Look at that magwell for instance. It's gotta be 50% bigger than it needs to be. Look at the sight rail on top. Can you even get a flat top? I don't think so. And the front grip of the thing is bulky and permanent. You can change the HK93 or the AR15 to very slim grips, but not the G36. The main way that you make the bulky front end of the G36 easy to handle is to add a small vertical grip to it. Don't get me wrong. I like the G36 and think it's a perfectly good rifle. I just don't think it's superior to the AR or HK 9x series, and certainly not to the 416. It's cheaply made out of plastic and not as rugged as one of the more metal rifles. As such, it's great for LE or the Military who can easily replace their guns, but less favorable for long-term ownership by civilians. I'd absolutely LOVE to have one... for $1200. JMHO. Oh, and really nice photo. Good action shot. ETA: But hey, what the hell do I know anyway. I spent the weekend playing with this thing. What a fun toy :
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