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Posted: 2/2/2008 12:18:48 PM EDT
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Im looking at a burris scope to mount on my PTR91. I have the fullfield II on an AR and love it. However, for the PTR I think something a bit shorter would be better. Burris makes a model - Burris Fullfield II 2x-7x-35MM Ballistic Plex , and its about an inch shorter than the the 3-9x40 model. At 11in in length, is this length going to cause a problem for the charging handle ? I want to use it with a low profile mount. |
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You need to work from an effective length, that I define as the physical scope length, plus the eye relief. Use this number and measure back from the retracted and locked charging handle. This is the approximate location where your eye needs to be. Find shorter scopes or buy accessories (e.g PRS stocks, etc) as required to make it fit. I can't give you a real answer, because everybody has a different head position that is comfortable when shooting. You don't get to pick the scope position on an HK, the scope tells you where to put your head... |
Not true. With a low rail mount and a scope mount such as LaRue's fine SPR mount, you can put a scope anywhere you need it. The above statement by Southern_Raider is true if you go with a claw mount, which seriously limits your ability to place the scope where it works best for you - not to mention it puts the scope ridiculously high. Here is my PTR-91 with an MFI low rail mount and a LaRue SPR-S holding a Leupold MR/T 1.5-5 scope: http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7604/ptr91wscopehg6.jpg No problem with the cocking handle, sits nice and low, and has plenty of adjustment for eye relief. Check out some of the B&T rail options for the HK/PTR-91 series on DSA's website: http://www.dsarms.com/products.asp?dept=77 Or the MFI rail: http://www.mfiap.com/smallarms/hk-low-mount.htm Think beyond the claw! |
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Take a close look at the picture posted. If I'm not mistaken, that scope is mounted so far forward that the charging handle can't be rotated upwards and locked. In fact, I'll bet if you're not careful, the front bell of the scope interferes with your hand while cocking the action. Edited to add After looking at Landpimp's pics below, I don't think it interferes with the charging handle being rotated up, but I still would bet that it's a tight fit with your hand. That scope is better placed than most, but at best it sits an inch closer to the optimum position. Imagine your cheek in the saddle just behind the receiver and tell me if you think that's a good spot. Edited to add I see you have an HK21 buttpad which changes the dynamics a bit. I stand by my original statement. Sure, you can use modern mounts to put scopes in all sorts of goofy places on the HK, but something has to give. Sure, you can change the dynamics by adding Magpul PRS stocks, HK21 buttpads, cheekrests, etc., but that is another discussion for another thread. |
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either with a claw or other mount(like MFI or B&T) you really want a scope 11-12" 13" is really pushing it. I like the claw mounts myself, cheek weld for some reason is not an issue with me, but a few of mine have SG1, MSG90 or PSG1 stocks. here are some of my 93's with scopes, top is claw mount with Leupold MRT middle is MFI with IOR 1.5x8(35tube)  91's 2nd down, Hensoldt 3rd is claw mount with Leupold MRT 4th is claw mount with Super Sniper 10x(this scope is really too long for the gun, regardless of mount type)  |
There is still an inch between the scope and cocking handle.
The eye relief for this particular scope is between 3.6 & 4.4". Shooting prone, this scope position is far more comfortable on the neck. If I want to shoot standing or sitting, I can simply move the scope mount back, with no perceivable change in POI. Something one cannot do with a claw mount!
Nothing has to give. With modern rail mounts one can use a longer eye relief scope and change it's position on the rifle depending on shooting position. If you do not want to change the scope's position, find a middle ground that works for you and leave the scope be. My point is that a modern rail mount is much more flexible than a claw mount. To each his own, and try to keep an open mind. HK did away with the claw mount on the MSG90 and PSG1, and both are more modern rifles than the G3/91 with claw mount. Hey Landpimp, always impressive when you start pulling out the collection. Very nice! |
Here, let me qualify my point. The folowing picture is from the HK manual and shows the "proper" position for firing the gun with iron sights: Notice where the guy's eyeball is located. On most every scoped HK I see, that position is right at the rear end of the scope, or somewhere inside the rear bell. Given the short standard stock it's reasonable to place one's head there, plus it helps to ride out the reoil impulse. I find anything else to be turkey necking...Sure, you can add all sorts of gizmos to change the ergonomics, but let's be real. If people knew they had to add a $250 Magpul PRS when scoping an HK, would they really try in the first place? There's a reason so many HKs have claw marks but wear no scope. Obviously, everyone doesn't shoot the same as me, and if it works for you, have at it. But the simple fact is that when you scope an HK, some (many) people will not be able to place their head where they want, unless they swap out/modify the stock. The objective lens of the scope and associate eye relief are dictating that (unless you want to get in the way of the cocking handle, which I've seen people do), and modern mounts have nothing to do with the equation. Since you seem to be happy, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree , but I get the impression that most people are not. Here's the only mounting solution I've been happy with as my head placement is the same for irons and the scope, although my head is rotated slightly upwards for the later. 
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I measured and it looked like around 11 inches the scope starts to interfere with the charging handle. I was checking with the stanag mount which places the scope pretty high. The lower mount would be worse. I think that a long eye relief scope with a small front bell (same diameter as tube) would work. Something like this. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=156855&t=11082005 Scope example |
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