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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:48:44 AM EDT
Anyone know how many manufacturers there are, which ones are good and which ones should be avoided?

Please don't trash a manufacturer unless you have actually used their wares. I know Vulcan makes the V94-series... and I know Vulcan's rep in that they used to be Hesse. That stigma has stuck with them and I'm not sure it's warranted anymore.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:28:54 AM EDT
The V94 is not a true clone. It is straight blowback operated while the MP5 uses the delayed roller blowback. The parts are not interchangeble I hvae 2 friends and have witnessed both of their frustration with the SW-5. This was a few years ago when they first came out. I have not personally had any experience with the BW5 but some people find they work while others have problems.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:20:55 PM EDT
Good topic. I also would like to know who makes the closest copy of a MP5? I'm looking to start a new collection of hardware and want to know about the different manufactures. I have heard of P.O.F. , Bobcat weapons, Vulcan, and Special Weapons. I may have forgotten a few. The clone I'm looking to build or buy would be an MP5 with collapsable stock, paddle mag release, and surefire forend. As of now I can't afford a true HKmp5 but look foward to getting something close.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:45:08 PM EDT
If you're looking for 9mm, Bobcat is the way to go. Kind of a beter quality SW. Most malf. in the BW can be atributed to the extractor spring, or straight mags.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:51:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 4:51:51 PM EDT by Soviet]
for a custom build Jayson at IGF can get the ball rolling... Because well.. german parts beats POF anyday.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:26:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redrum746:
Good topic. I also would like to know who makes the closest copy of a MP5? I'm looking to start a new collection of hardware and want to know about the different manufactures. I have heard of P.O.F. , Bobcat weapons, Vulcan, and Special Weapons. I may have forgotten a few. The clone I'm looking to build or buy would be an MP5 with collapsable stock, paddle mag release, and surefire forend. As of now I can't afford a true HKmp5 but look foward to getting something close.



I was asking the same thing a month or so ago. After lurking around here and other sites, it appears that Bobcat or a custom build by Jayson at IGF is the only way to go.

I just bought a Bobcat BW-5, and I'll report on it whenever my paperwork comes back from the BATF (I got it SBR'd & I bought a suppressor).

Some good things about Bobcat: lifetime warranty, real delayed roller blowback action, 100% compatiable w/HK parts, & (from what I have heard) damn good receivers that are actually tougher than the real thing.

I heard from everyone that ACTUALLY has one that the malfunctions are almost always due to: ammo choice (BW5's HATES UMC for some reason or any type of light loads) or straight mags (which are sometimes a problem in real MP5s I have heard).

I thought about sucking it up and getting a real HK94, but I didn't want to spend twice as much from what I could get with a decent clone with some nice accessories.

Speaking of, the HK collapsable stocks are expensive ($300), and are getting harder and harder to find. I'm thinking about replacing my A2 stock with the new folder from B&T, but they are expensive as well.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:45:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 5:47:33 PM EDT by pathfinder74]
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:01:46 PM EDT
That's about it for your choices...

If you don't want to spend $2,500 - $3,500 on a '94 conversion, go with BW-FS or a late generation SW-FS. I believe they use the same receiver. I have a late model SW/BW -FS and love it for an everyday shooter. It accepts my HK bolt carrier and accessories w/no probelms. The finish is excellent and very durable. I have no complaints with it at all. Go for it.

ARCAPTN
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:28:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 4:32:06 AM EDT by pathfinder74]
Isn't there a place in Ohio that builds them?

ETA: Ohio Rapid Fire
RF-10 and RF-94. Both delayed blowback.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:23:05 AM EDT
From what I've heard second hand (my BW5-FS is due in TODAY!) and read in my MP5 book, straight mags should work with FMJ ammo.

Light loads don't cycle properly because of the delayed blowback. The pressure builds up until the inertia of the rollers is overcome, then the bolt BLASTS open.

Military SMG loads are very hot for that reason.

If I'm wrong here, I'm sure I will be rapidly corrected...

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:46:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 8:40:37 AM EDT by SigKev]
Delete
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:56:49 AM EDT
Isn't Vector Arms going to be coming out with a clone in 9mm this year?

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:33:43 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:27:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
From what I've heard second hand (my BW5-FS is due in TODAY!) and read in my MP5 book, straight mags should work with FMJ ammo.

Light loads don't cycle properly because of the delayed blowback. The pressure builds up until the inertia of the rollers is overcome, then the bolt BLASTS open.

Military SMG loads are very hot for that reason.

If I'm wrong here, I'm sure I will be rapidly corrected...




Interested in doing a range report? I just bought a BW5 and I'd like to know what to expect.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:24:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Isn't Vector Arms going to be coming out with a clone in 9mm this year?





Yes they are and the last I heard was june! I'm goung to wait ang get there clone !
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:48:42 PM EDT
Who are they getting the receivers from? Last I heard they were getting the recievers from SW and only the .40s&w because of slow sells with the 10mm and 357sig, and didnt have the 'contract' to get the 9mm rec. That might have changed though since Bobcat isn't going to make the BW5 anymore.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:54:21 PM EDT
OK, I went to Bailey's website and copied this from the "setting the record straight" post in the Vector forum:

tbailey
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1296

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Set the record straight!!! 1-29-06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SW has agreed to sell Vector 200 sw89 pistol kits made of both large and short K pistols this is a one time deal NO exclusive at all.

we are also selling them 50 SD kits

As we have stated Coharie arms is buying me out and will own the 9mm receiver tooling over the next 3 months, in addition there is NO deal or plans for Cohaire arms to sell any additional kits or guns in the 40 cal version to vector.

Even if CA decided to sell receviers to vector I am the own who will still own all the tooling to build the gun, they just own receiver and ejector the rest is and will be SW so we can selll parts to others. I do not see a need in selling any additional parts as kits at this time, I am working on the MP10-40 cal and should have that coming out in June or july making and selling additional 40 cal kits would compete with that business and I do not want to do it.

However, the all knowing internet jackasses feel they and pray to Ala and get vector to pull something out of the air.

Rumors of Vector building 40 cal is totally false. If you want to wait for Vector mp5-40 guns you will be waiting a very very very long time.


To sum up

Vector 200 v89 pistols
Vector 50 v5 sd rifles

200 more CA 40 cal guns

NOTHING else.

PS bobcat has 200 more BW5 fs guns and that will be it for them.

I will wait to see these jack offs to hope Hesse builds ones after they miss the CA boat.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:38:21 AM EDT
I have the BW 89, actually two of them. I also have two H&K 94s and a Vector V51. The two Bobcats I have are well constructed, well finished and accurate firearms. The paint is not as durable as what is on the H&Ks though. I have about 800 rounds through one BW 89. The first outing I had several failures to feed. Second time out I had a couple of ftf. The last time out I had two or three ftf but they were all with one new straight mag. Extraction and ejection have been 100%. I believe this is going to be a 99% functioning gun once it is fully broken in and I think I am about there.
By the way, after you get a 94 or clone you will then look at the Vector clone lineup. The V51 pistol that I recieved is top self stuff. I don't have many rounds through it as I am waiting for SBR paperwork but function has been 100%. I have alot of ARs M1As and M1 Garands but I am new to the H&K stuff. Be carefully, they are addictive. My five arrived over a very short period of time and now I really want a MP5 sear gun. Really neat guns and a real crowd pleasers as everyone has seen them on every TV show or movie that has ever had a firearm shown. Hope this helps!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:02:43 PM EDT
Thanks for all the advice guys. This kinda helps me with narrowing down the choices of whats currently out there. I have a lot of time and just have to build up the funds for some new toys.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:20:38 PM EDT
So, Coharie is buying Todd out and will own all the tooling, and in the next paragraph Todd says he'll still own all the tooling. Talk about setting the record straight.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:59:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:02:00 PM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Isn't there a place in Ohio that builds them?

ETA: Ohio Rapid Fire
RF-10 and RF-94. Both delayed blowback.



Nope, but there is a place in Ohio that will talk about building them, and has been talking about building them for the last year or twelve.

I bought a Bobcat BW5-FS for $1500 or so, and I love the thing. Flawless performance, quality piece. Is it an HK? No. Does it stand up to "real" HK for fit and finish? Dunno. It looks and feels like the few "real" HK pieces I've touched, and I'm happy with it.

My reccomendation would be to buy one of the 200 SW5-FS models that Special Weapons/Todd Bailey is building/selling in the next few weeks, for $825 or whatever it was that he was offering them for.

Use the remaining $700 or so that you might spend on a Bobcat, and put that towards any possible tuning you might need someone like IGF to do (mine needed none), towards mags, towards SBR'ing it, towards other accessories, etc.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:08:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CaptainKevinDarling:
So, Coharie is buying Todd out and will own all the tooling, and in the next paragraph Todd says he'll still own all the tooling. Talk about setting the record straight.



So, Wendy is buying everything from Todd?

Still no website at www.cohariearms.com (which is owned by Wendy).
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:23:46 PM EDT
I just picked my BW89 up on Friday. The shop I used for the transfer is very much into HK guns and they were very leary of the Bobcat. They opened the case and their first words were Wow, this is nice. More of the guys came out of the machine shop area (Actual firearms manufacturer) and looked. They were very impressed with the welds and the finish quality. Then they retrieved a real HK mag and did what they called the real test. They tried the HK mag and it fit into the mag well perfectly and locked into place. They were again very impressed. Then the owner said to let him know how it works and he might buy one for himself and set it up with an auto sear.

I shot the gun on Saturday in 10 degree weather. The first mag didn't go so well. The gun jammed nearly every round. I was using Remington UMC ammo. Next I loaded Winchester white box ammo and the gun ran perfect. No problems at all. I then started to mess around and I would load 2-3 rounds of Remington in with the 30 rounds of Winchester. The gun jammed every time it fired the Remington. I could actually feel the difference in power between the rounds when I pulled the trigger. The UMC rounds lack the power to fully recoil the bolt and reset the hammer. It never once failed with the Winchester ammo.

I have heard this about other Bobcat weapons and I heard that a solution is to use the MP5 SD locking piece when firing the weaker rounds. I wonder if I were to use the MP5K locking piece for SD if it would have the same effect? For now I am only going to use the Winchester until I can determine any other brand that it can or can't use.

I also own a Vector V-53. The V-53 is a beautiful and well made weapon. So far it has been absolutely reliable and very accurate. I can't wait until my paperwork comes back and I can finally put a stock on it.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:18:30 PM EDT
I really want a nice MP5 clone to SBR, but I think I'll wait on the Vector
Arms product as well.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:20:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
From what I've heard second hand (my BW5-FS is due in TODAY!) and read in my MP5 book, straight mags should work with FMJ ammo.

Light loads don't cycle properly because of the delayed blowback. The pressure builds up until the inertia of the rollers is overcome, then the bolt BLASTS open.

Military SMG loads are very hot for that reason.

If I'm wrong here, I'm sure I will be rapidly corrected...




I have a couple of powder puff subsonic loads that will cycle in my SBR BW5 with a Gem-Tech Trinity attached that will not cycle my Beretta. They are the lowest loads in the manuals. They will also cycle my 9mm upper in f/a. My BW5 was a true 16" I had cut down and still has the stock locking set. Only trouble is when I tweak the extractor spring. Replace with HK93 springs and back to the races.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:34:57 AM EDT
Man, I _REALLY_ wish I had an extra $825 + shipping/transfer fees right now.

I'd buy another one in a nanosecond!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:43:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
I really want a nice MP5 clone to SBR, but I think I'll wait on the Vector
Arms product as well.




Well, if you were coming to Camden, you could try out my BW5. If we have one of those "Pre-Camden" shoots at RangeUSA (and I can make it), you can try it there.

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