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Posted: 3/1/2004 8:38:37 PM EDT
| I've owned this gun for a couple of years now and was just curious what the general opinions on this particular rifle were.I've been to another site and no responses as to quality and so forth.What has me concerned is the aluminum reciever,I know Federal Arms sold one like it for a considerably cheaper price.I would appreciate inputs from anyone who owns one or has owned one or from anyone with firsthand knowledge.Also would it be legal or necesary to have it resmithed to a steel reciever.Any firsthand insight would be greatly appreciated. |
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hey man I have a FA G3 Clone and personally I like the aluminum receiver a whole lot more than a steel one. My brother in law has a much newer one with a steel receiver and hes already experiencing cracks in the welds. Some people will have problems and some people wont. It just so happens that he hasnt had very good luck with his. I love mine. the only problem with the aluminum is that the paint chips very easy. But my gun is a shooter not a looker. I could care less what it looks like as long as it shoots. DOnt know about your legal question. |
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Yeah I know what you mean,mine has half halo type marks where the spent rounds are hitting the reciever during extraction.I've heard that the stiffness of the aluminum receiver aids in accuracy,My SAR-8 is one accurate bugger.I have it scout scoped till I can get a 4x16 50mm objective style tactical scope on it.There's an outfit near me that does a fine job of powder coating so I may do that.Powder coating is supposed to hold up better than paint.I would like to get black furniture for it and have the metal powder coated a matte silver,that would look cool.Thanks for the reply and keep shootin' |
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I bought an SA SAR-8 on the last day you could buy AWs in California, before I knew anything about HKs or clones. Probably wasn't the best choice, but is was a last minute last chance thing. I too went looking for sites that had anything about these, and didn't find anything. If anybody knows of a gunsmith that will work on these, let me know. As for the strength of the aluminum receiver, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The receiver is much thicker than the steel one, and the side grooves that are for the sliding stock on a real HK are solid aluminum on the SAR, so the bulk of the receiver is stronger and stiffer. The rear holes for the pins are also solid aluminum, so the bearing area for the pins is much greater than it is for the steal receiver. The only weak area (as far as I can see) is a section in the rear were the outside dimensions of the receiver is limited by the stock/receiver cap, and the inside dimensions are limited by the bolt, so it is the same thickness as the steel one, but it is aluminum. The rest of the receiver is beefy enough I am not worried about it. As for making it steel, I'd say no chance, as it would need to be replaced number for number by the manufacturer. You might as well just buy a new receiver and put the parts from the SAR into it. This is unless you live in the PRK like me, then you are SOL. The thing that sucks about the cast receiver, is that you can't put on the wide handguards. I was looking into putting a Knight RAS onto it, but am trying to find somebody that has one to measure it to make sure it will fit (if you know somebody, let me know). Mine got the half moon marks on it right away, but is pretty much stripped of paint now behind the ejection port. I am looking to powder coat it or do something to refinish , but am worried about putting it back together. I am also looking into waiting until September and putting on a flash suppressor and new barrel, but need to find a gunsmith in the PRK that will work on these (and is allowed to by law in PRK). Mine functions OK, but the cocking handle carrier gets jammed forward after firing, so that you have to bang it on a table to unlock it. I think that I have concluded that clearance between the bolt carrier and the cocking handle carrier is too great so that the bolt doesn't unlock when you rotate the handle out, but have no idea how to fix it. I am rambling. Summary: -don't worry about the aluminum -want steel?, just buy a new receiver and use parts from SAR -living in PRK sucks -minor problem, diagnosed, yet to fixed |
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I also have a Springfield SAR 8, aluminum receiver. No issues and I like the built in rail. I have been told the steel receivers are better, but as time has gone by I am not so sure. Mine is not for looks so I could care less about how bulky it is. If I were you I would not bother having it powder coated. No matter what you put on it will chip pretty quick once brass starts hitting it. Ever talked to the guys at strider knives? They will tell you that a can of paint is there best friend. Cheers |
| You guys need to goto HKPRO.com or HK91.com and ask about their experiences with the non steel receivers. Most of their experiences have not been positive. Alot of those guys got credit from SA to trade their rifles in for M1As. There is no comparison between the steel and aluminum receivers. |
| I have contacted Springfield Armory directly.I hope you are talking truth and not spreading rumors as I have been trying for 2 years to find out anything about my gun either positive or negative.I cant believe SA would put their name on a piece without exhaustive testing.If what you say is true then thank you if not you should be more careful in the future because there are those of us who deal in facts and not heresay.I dont expect to have what you say to ring true but if what you say is true then thank you. |
| I didn't know this site allowed foul language even if misspelled.I didn't mean to start anything but I deal in facts.I tried to be as tactful as I could but the world is full of myths and I was only trying to get the truth. Like I said if it's true I thank you.Springfield Armory is a good company and I know sometimes even good companies make mistakes.If they are offering some kind of resolvement then that makes them a 1% company and that is rare in this day and time.I have had no problems as such with the gun but I've always been concerned with the integrity of the reciever.I am a pretty fair amateur gunsmith and knifemaker so I have a concept of metals and their strengths and inherent weaknesses and I wondered to the lifespan of the cast reciever on this gun.It didn't help any to be at the range and see numerous guys with a gun just like mine sold by another company and theirs was sold to them considerably lower in price than the S.A. Anyway it was not my intention to insult or impune anyone I was only trying to ascertain the truth. |
| Heh, yes you're allowed to 'curse' here even if you spell it correctly! Anyway, you can't just send in your working sar8 and expect to get a credit towards a new m1a. It has to be 'broken' [wink] [wink] first. They can't repair the receiver any longer so, they give credit for another purchase. |
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I think Bullet was being sarcastic. He isnt a troll and has been around for quite a while. Yes all the things I have said is true. But some peeps were buying these things cheap and trying to get full credit towards the M1As. They will only give you credit toward the price on the receipt. No receipt no M1A. Also you have to have a defective gun, many were and after some arm twisting they will honor their lifetime warranty. The story I got was that SA ran out of repair parts and really didnt want to invest in this anymore. SA will try to stonewall you. You need to be persistant. You need one of their SAR3s or SAR3/8 or a Hellenic SAR8 if you want any quality. Instead of getting upset why dont you do some research. Goto the sites I mentioned and search or ask any of the old hands and they will comfirm this. |
| I'm not upset like I said my gun has given me any problems.I only wanted to know if what I was being told was truth or rumor.I'm signed up on hk91.com and have inquired there but without reply for sometime now.I went to the other site you mentioned and asked them for some insight.Thanks for your help and I'm really not trying to raise any ruckous I'm just trying to get some info as to the true nature of a gun that noone seems to want to talk about including the good folks at S.A.Thanks again. |
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I think that ARDOC is right on this. As the round count goes up, then you could possible see issues. I am up to 2000rds on my aluminum receiver, everything is still tight. But my round count will probably not go up to much more as I am going to the M1A scout set up. But I will keep the SAR8 for what it is - a beater rifle. Springfield will not work on them anymore as they no longer stock the parts. But if it did go south I will just have one of the good HK builders scrap the receiver and build another with the parts. Of course there are also issues with some of the steel receivers cracking at the welds - nothing is perfect. All that said how many people really shoot one rifle out to say 5000+ rounds. Not to many. Gear, be it rifles or pistols wear out. Parts need to be replaced and you should figure that into the equation. |
| I just recieved an E-mail from S.A. and they assured me that my gun is covered by a Lifetime Warranty and he disavowed any program like you guys are talking about.He basically put this rumor to bed.The company will stand by this product and will live up to the warranty.Somebody is confused and I dont think it's me or S.A. |
Uh, no offense, but what exactly did you expect the company to say? Admit that the rifle is a POS and that they'd be happy to send you a new M1A on their dime? I have first hand experience with this - I bought one of these SAR-8's second hand. Turned out it shot too wide, even with the windage maxxed out in that direction. Sent it in for warranty repair, after they said it was covered even though I was not the original owner. Figured they'd just need to perhaps restab the barrel, but they claimed it was not repairable. Problem was, I didn't have a receipt for it, and they wanted it, as mentioned above. So they were gonna give me a credit for the MSRP of the SAR-8 and make me pay the difference in the MSRP of the M1A. Several weeks went by and didn't hear anything. Left several messages with the person I was working with in the repairs groups at SA, and didn't hear anything back. In the meantime, I had heard reports of others with issues and SA doing an even swap for an M1A. Finally talked to someone else there, the CS manager, I believe. They claimed to not know anything about the "difference in MSRP" nonsense, and that as far as they knew, they were just doing the even swaps. Promised me a new M1A w/o any cost on my part. Got the rifle two weeks later, along with a $180 charge on my CC, which wasn't supposed to happen. Called back and ended up speaking with both the original person I worked with (who was going to charge me the MSRP diff) and the CS manager (who promised me the even swap). To make a long story short, I got the charge knocked off, but it took more than a bit of arguing. So... I guess the point it is, yeah, I guess they will honor the lifetime warranty (with some arguing), but they really don't have a consistent policy. Heck, the CS manager and repair dept. thought their proceedure was pretty much completely different. I guess I'm really not sure what you're after. You asked a question and then refuse to believe those who answer your question. If the guy at SA claims to know nothing about this issue, then he is either sorely uninformed or feeding you a line. Rocko |
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Just reread by reply, and I think I may have been a bit harsh on SA. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the end result. My total out of pocket cost to end up with the M1A was... well, let's just say I had a big head start on buying mags and ammo than someone buying one retail. However, they could have made it a more pleasant experience, and don't forget that the price of the warranty is factored into the purchase price of the gun. You mentioned the FAC rifle selling for much cheaper, and the warranty differences has alot to do with it - we pay a premium for the SA name because we expect better service, like the lifetime warranty, if anything goes wrong. At any rate, it remains that many of these rifles had problems and it seems like SA was offering replacement/credit on even some seemingly minor problems - it almost seems like they were doing a silent recall on any such rifle that came back to them for pretty much any reason. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product. Rocko |
| If the shoe fits then I'll wear it.All I was after was info on my gun.You would know that if you read the opening to this thread.Unlike most people I'm not after anything.Just like so many times these topics morph into something else.I like my gun,it has been a superb performer but I had some questions and I got some decent answers.I own many firearms and have owned too many to think that it's anything more than luck of the draw.I do most of my own gun work and believe me I've seen some pretty shoddy workmanship even on the better quality names in the business.I did not mean to raise any hackels but I was asking for first hand info so I wasn't after a friend of my brothers uncles aunt type of info.I've known to many experts to know that 99.9% of them were full of hot air.POS is in the eye of the beholder and my SAR-8 is definitely a keeper.I've been around this business too long to take even the word of a factory rep as gospel but in this case I can go to his supervisor if not satisfied but on the internet which Is full of experts I tread very carefully. |
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Here's another SA replaced sar-8... www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=173886 Now, I wonder how that's getting done based on your email? |
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Well, I didn't have mine for long, but IMHO, the "canted barrel" problem isn't a problem with the barrel, but rather with the receiver. Believe me, I researched this thoroughly while SA had my rifle (about 18 months ago, now). Many of the threads I found on hk91.com (that's were I originally heard about the M1A swap), but a quick search doesn't turn them up for some reason. At any rate, as stated above, my problem was also that the rifle shot too far wide for the available windage adjustment, just like JimBeam in that other thread. Many of those who reported problems also had similiar issues. Most said it started fine, and developed over time. My thinking is that it is mostly due to the way the trunion is attached to the receiver. The original receiver is, of course, stamped steel, and it and the trunion are welded together. In the aluminum receiver, the receiver and trunion are pinned together. I think that's a good deal of pressure on a relatively small bearing area for an aluminum receiver. I'd guess that these pin holes in the receiver have a tendancy to elongate a bit over time/shooting, which of course would lead to the oft-reported opening up of groups, and if not elongated evenly, then the canting of the bbl in relation to the receiver. I wouldn't take alot to have it shoot a few inches at 100yds over to one side. Another common problem is a disintegrating hammer. Oh, FYI - I believe that two of the US made parts included when the rifle shipped were the magazine and follower, so using 100% imported mags may really be putting you in violation of 922(r). This is just hearsay, however - I didn't have the rifle long enough to even make a guess on what was US and what was surplus. But hey, if you like it, more power to you. If it has problems, SA will likely do something. However, if my experience is typical, what they do can vary from case to case. However, I must say that you seem to deep down at least think that the rifle may be of questionable quality (else why ask the original question in the first place, and ask about replacing the receiver?), but when people point out issues they had, you get very defensive of it. Almost seems like you are in denial... Oh well - have fun and hope you don't have problems with it, or SA does you right (without too much complaining on your part) if you do. Rocko |
| I'm not angry or defensive and where did you get your license to practice psychology?I have no reservations about my gun.I am a pretty fair amateur gunsmith and a knifemaker I was only asking for some info on my gun and actual owners input.I have been seeing a lot of ads for American made steel recievers and was just curious.The people on this site are just faceless names so I take everything and weigh it in the balance of truth if that isn't tolerated then it's not my problem.I dont take the word of just one source,'except the Bible, and build an opinion.I like several inputs then I separate the wheat from the chaff and proceed from there.I did have concerns about the reciever and still do but it's based on my knowledge of metals and not based on the opinion of someone I'll probably never meet.I like my gun,I've owned true HK's and this one shoots way better.I've owned almost all of the various"assault" weapons so I have more than just a little insight into these type's of firearms.It wouldn't bother me in the least if this or any gun was as bad as it is being touted,thats life.If it turns out to be a bad decision then I'll adapt and overcome.I spent 11 yrs.in service to this country and the principles on which it was founded,I may not agree with what someone says but I'll defend their right to say it.If I dont necasarily like what is being said I dont get angry I just dont have to accept it but I dont get angry.It seems to me that others have a problem and when all else fails they resort to foul language and inuendo but I remain calm and stay laser focused.If I've offended anyone then I'm truly sorry but I thought this would be a good place to get the straight scoop but what I've figured out is you have to take what some self ingratiating "experts" throw out or you are treated like a second class citizen.I too know a thing or two about firearms and how they are made,function,and how to fix'em.I value every mans opinion until it proves of little worth,I expect to be treated the same way.I di noy psychoanalyze anyone and dont need anyone doing it to me especially on a firearms site. |
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The magazine that came with my rifle does have a different/newer floor plate on an imported body, so rocko's comment about the mags is probably right. As for looking on the internet for info, there is not a lot of info specific to these cast receiver SARs. Boards have been the best resource. |
| Well people it's been interesting.I hope we can,if nothing else,at least in the future,agree to disagree agreeably.If I've offended anyone that was not my intention.I'm sorry if I dont let your advice stand on its own but that's just my way.It's kinda like getting a 2nd opinion from a Dr. or getting 3 estimates on body work.I would probably listen to your advice carte blanche on AR-15's or their variants,as I assume you guys specialize in them.If my assumption is wrong then I stand corrected.On the other hand I do not,and noone, likes being talked down to.I also possess a lot of info on lots of differing types of firearms,I've been in the firearms racket for a long time even though I'm not that old.My interest is wide ranging and I'm always trying to learn more and more.I hope we can keep it friendly and I really do like this site.Keep up the good work and God Bless. |
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Just to piss on his other shoe, Back when SA was producing the rifle with Greece receivers (SAR-3, then over stamped 8) the rifle was as close to a real HK as you could get. The Greece receiver was produced on HK tooling, and the rifle would last as long as anything produced out of HK Germany. Then the import ban hit, and they could no longer import the steel receiver rifles, but to keep on selling a G-3 type rifle, they started to produce the rifles on US aluminum receivers. The problem is that the Non-steel G-3 type rifle was a bust (receiver/trunion problems) and they just stop producing the rifle. Granted that they may have a few spare parts left over to fix a few rifles, The New SA-8 does not stand up to the shooter that will put tens of thousands of rounds threw the rifle in a year. SA has played their cards right, and that is to replace the rifle (once worn out) with a M1A that will endure to that amount of shooting. As for not just recalling all the aluminum receiver rifles, the shooter that may never shot more than 5,000 rounds threw the rifle in there life, will never have a problem with the rifle. |
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I have one of the aluminum SAR-8 rifles. I will never put enough rounds through it to cause a problem. I'd have to get a shoulder rebuild before that would happen. But I like it fine. Hadn't really thought much about getting rid of it. But I also have an HK-91 A3. |
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hvac, Mine was. And talk about Jam-O-Matic. Every 2nd rd or more. Would have to hammer on the cocking lever to pop the shells out (half out of the chamber FTE). In 2 yrs I never made it more than 3 rds without a jam. I fought with it 2 yrs, 3 gunsmiths, several letters to Springfield, etc etc. Was offered a preban Polytech AK underfolder in trade, and haven't looked back. Hopefully, your experience will be much better than mine. Doc |
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