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Posted: 6/14/2011 6:59:59 PM EDT
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Finished building an FAL not too long ago, going to try to get out to the range this weekend and test fire it. Any suggestions? I am kinda nervous to shoot it, for some reason.
I have the gas open full for now, since I had the barrel cut down to 18". Hopefully it will run well in the middle. |
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Was the gas port opened at all?
It's been awhile since I built my last para, so I don't have the port sizes right in front of me, but on a cut down barrel, it may be necessary to open the gas port. There is probably an old thread here with those numbers in it. I know there is lots of information over on the FALfiles. If headspace and barrel timing measure out right, the bolt and carrier close properly and there are no chamber or bore obstructions, you should be good to go. If your concerned, set the gas plug to grenade for the first shot. This will turn off the gas system completely, locks out the recoil system. What you are cheching is that pulling the trigger will cause the hammer to fall on the ound in the chamber allowing the round to fire. There will be no bolt travel at all. Next round will have to be loaded manually. You can always tie the rifle to something and use a lanyard on the trigger. Or pay someone to shoot it the first time. Bring several mags also. If you have a bad mag, atvleast with a cople of extras you can troube shoot. There is always something cool about pulling the trigger for the first time on a new build. Goog luck! |
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Quoted: No, I didn't have the gas port opened at all, hoping I won't have to. I have 11 mags to try out. should be fun! I was scared to shoot my AR for the first time, as well. I've never been worried about the 3 AR's that I've built. FAL's on the other hand. A little more oomph in that chamber than with .223/5.56. That and I've never built one. |
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An AR contains a kaboom rather well with little or no damage to the shooter (but don't try it at home boys and girls). A FAL is a bit less forgiving as the dust cover becomes shrapnel under similar circumstances.
That said, if the barrel is even remotely proprly timed and you've properly headpsaced it with the correct locking shoulder, ensured the firing pin is corectly profiled, and ensured the bore is unobstructed, then there is not much else that can go wrong. I mean after all, the angry beavers at Century can assemble them in a more or less safe, if not reliable manner, so how hard can it be?. If the gas port was drilled rather than end milled you can end up with a bur in the bore that can then fold over and obstruct the gas port. That and the gas port being undersized on a shorter barrelled FAL are a couple of the common causes for being under gassed, and if you are not under gassed, things normally work very welll. Do a function test with the rifle unloaded to ensure the safety and disconnector are properly functioning before you load up. If in doubt about anything else, set the rifle in an old tire - stock against the bead on one side and the forearm laying across the other side of the tire, chamber one round and place a sandbag over the reciever, then fire via a long piece of string. Once past that test, it's probably good to go from a safety standpoint. Some of the Browning style flash hiders have bene known to banana peel over time, but that's more interesting than dangerous. |
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The best way to deal with the gas is to crank the adjustment collar CLOSED, that is all the way flush against the gas block, then adjust out til you get ONE malfunction due to not enough gas, then go back a few clicks. You want to toss brass about 15 yards IMHO, if you want to be dialed in for a scenario where you may need to go through 100 rounds rather quickly. |
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Quoted: That is not the way any manual I've ever read dictates. The best way to deal with the gas is to crank the adjustment collar CLOSED, that is all the way flush against the gas block, then adjust out til you get ONE malfunction due to not enough gas, then go back a few clicks. You want to toss brass about 15 yards IMHO, if you want to be dialed in for a scenario where you may need to go through 100 rounds rather quickly. You start open with one round in the mag. You shoot one round at a time, closing the gas port for each round until it locks on an empty mag, then two more clicks down. |
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If you do it that way you will have to clear more jams.
The way I describe you only clear one jam. Also, if it doesn't cycle all the way closed you will know you have gas system issues right away and can stop and go deal with those without wasting ammo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted:
An AR contains a kaboom rather well with little or no damage to the shooter (but don't try it at home boys and girls). A FAL is a bit less forgiving as the dust cover becomes shrapnel under similar circumstances. That said, if the barrel is even remotely proprly timed and you've properly headpsaced it with the correct locking shoulder, ensured the firing pin is corectly profiled, and ensured the bore is unobstructed, then there is not much else that can go wrong. I mean after all, the angry beavers at Century can assemble them in a more or less safe, if not reliable manner, so how hard can it be?. If the gas port was drilled rather than end milled you can end up with a bur in the bore that can then fold over and obstruct the gas port. That and the gas port being undersized on a shorter barrelled FAL are a couple of the common causes for being under gassed, and if you are not under gassed, things normally work very welll. Do a function test with the rifle unloaded to ensure the safety and disconnector are properly functioning before you load up. If in doubt about anything else, set the rifle in an old tire - stock against the bead on one side and the forearm laying across the other side of the tire, chamber one round and place a sandbag over the reciever, then fire via a long piece of string. Once past that test, it's probably good to go from a safety standpoint. Some of the Browning style flash hiders have bene known to banana peel over time, but that's more interesting than dangerous. The barrel smith that mounted up the barrel said it was properly headspaced, but how do you determine the correct locking shoulder? |
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I have seen guys use old tires as a rest, sand bags, and a string method. I have never used those but just an idea for you to try.
As to the locking shoulder and headspace. Once the brl is installed TDC, headspace is measured with the pins and a go/ no-go/ and field gauge. Basically what you are doing is using different pins until you get the hs that you want. You take the pin size and use the locking shoulder that corresponds to it––you may have to find someone with the correct size shoulder but that is what you want. I know in the past when a bunch of us built rifles we were always doing swaps, but not sure who to go for a locking shoulder now. Good luck on your build and let us know how it turns out.............pics too! |
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hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together.
Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? |
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Quoted:
hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. ok, guess i need to take it back to him and have it rechecked. the guy is local, so its not a big deal. finding the right pin might be a bitch, since i will have to order them in. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. ok, guess i need to take it back to him and have it rechecked. the guy is local, so its not a big deal. finding the right pin might be a bitch, since i will have to order them in. It's an easy process with pin gauges, an extractor remover, a go gauge and a micrometer (to check your locking shoulder). Done properly you'll know what size to order. Installing it is easy with a little anti-seize and some light tapping with a hammer and brass punch. Beware, there are a lot of gunsmiths that do not know how to do it, if yours has never done it, recommend he studies the AZ Response Systems book or video before trying it on yours. The book explains the whole process in good detail and makes it a snap to do. It's a good thing you did not shoot it without the locking shoulder, they tend to blow up when that happens. |
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Quoted: With respect you your "local guy", if he installed a barrel on an F A L and did not set the head space properly, I would not trust anything that he has done to the rifle. He may be a fine smith, but he isn't sufficiently familiar with F A Ls. Quoted: Quoted: hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. ok, guess i need to take it back to him and have it rechecked. the guy is local, so its not a big deal. finding the right pin might be a bitch, since i will have to order them in. |
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Quoted: If you do it that way you will have to clear more jams. The way I describe you only clear one jam. Also, if it doesn't cycle all the way closed you will know you have gas system issues right away and can stop and go deal with those without wasting ammo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Stimp, I have tried for years to get that message out and I always get "well the manual says...." as a response. Now I just let them do the pogo dance and burn up expensive ammo needlessly. They never listen. so why bother? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
With respect you your "local guy", if he installed a barrel on an F A L and did not set the head space properly, I would not trust anything that he has done to the rifle. He may be a fine smith, but he isn't sufficiently familiar with F A Ls.
Quoted:
Quoted:
hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. ok, guess i need to take it back to him and have it rechecked. the guy is local, so its not a big deal. finding the right pin might be a bitch, since i will have to order them in. As I discussed with my friend who recommended him to me this morning, that seems to be the case. All he did was cut the factory barrel to 18", re-thread, and mounted the barrel for me. I did the rest of the work on the build. I'm not going to crucify the guy for a mistake that even I didn't know needed to be done. Hopefully it will be an easy fix. |
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Quoted: Nor would I. That was the reason I posted the comment in red above.Quoted: Quoted: With respect to your "local guy", if he installed a barrel on an F A L and did not set the head space properly, I would not trust anything that he has done to the rifle. He may be a fine smith, but he isn't sufficiently familiar with F A Ls. Quoted: Quoted: hmm, I might take the rifle back to the barrelsmith before i shoot it. when i had him mount and cut the barrel, the upper receiver wasn't completely put together. Is the locking shoulder pin the one with the 2 flats machined on it? one end has an oval shaped ear to it? Yes, if he sent it back without installing it, you need to go through the headspacing process. ok, guess i need to take it back to him and have it rechecked. the guy is local, so its not a big deal. finding the right pin might be a bitch, since i will have to order them in. As I discussed with my friend who recommended him to me this morning, that seems to be the case. All he did was cut the factory barrel to 18", re-thread, and mounted the barrel for me. I did the rest of the work on the build. I'm not going to crucify the guy for a mistake that even I didn't know needed to be done. Hopefully it will be an easy fix. |
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Thank you all for your replies. I am going to take the rifle up to Phoenix and leave it with Arizona Response Systems. Just have to wait till after the 4th of July when I get back in town and can get an afternoon off work to drive up and drop it off.
I would rather have someone that really knows FALs to assure that the head spacing is good then risking my face. I'm partial to it and it's the only one i got. Not quite ready to risk blowing chunks of it off with a blowed up rifle. 
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Quoted:
Stimp, I have tried for years to get that message out and I always get "well the manual says...." as a response. Now I just let them do the pogo dance and burn up expensive ammo needlessly. They never listen. so why bother? As wandering priests of the FAL...it is our honor and duty to preach not only what the good books say, but also those pieces of truth and knowledge which we have found in our travels. Clearly the Lord only wants all FALs set properly for proper extraction, that there are multiple paths to that conclusion merely offers the new convert options. Some will take the harder path and claim it's sacrifice as proof of faith. Others will see the simpler way and claim their frugality as divinely inspired. And we will continue to preach, at least until the unwashed see the light...or burn us at the stake. |
Im just chiming in to say a guy on FalFiles had his rifle KaBoomed recently after having his gunsmith "check the headspace and test fire" Last I read it seemed the smith didn't know Fals, and never installed the guys locking shoulder before test firing it. Arizona Response Systems sounds like the best bet, let us know how it shoots, and take pics!
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Quoted:
Im just chiming in to say a guy on FalFiles had his rifle KaBoomed recently after having his gunsmith "check the headspace and test fire" Last I read it seemed the smith didn't know Fals, and never installed the guys locking shoulder before test firing it. Arizona Response Systems sounds like the best bet, let us know how it shoots, and take pics! Funny thing, the guy at ARS mentioned that very rifle. I guess i was lucky not firing it yet. I will get pics up soon. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Stimp, I have tried for years to get that message out and I always get "well the manual says...." as a response. Now I just let them do the pogo dance and burn up expensive ammo needlessly. They never listen. so why bother? As wandering priests of the FAL...it is our honor and duty to preach not only what the good books say, but also those pieces of truth and knowledge which we have found in our travels. Clearly the Lord only wants all FALs set properly for proper extraction, that there are multiple paths to that conclusion merely offers the new convert options. Some will take the harder path and claim it's sacrifice as proof of faith. Others will see the simpler way and claim their frugality as divinely inspired. And we will continue to preach, at least until the unwashed see the light...or burn us at the stake.  |
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