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Posted: 1/12/2006 1:45:44 PM EDT
In general, what kind of accuracy are FALs known for?

I know that ARs will often shoot MOA or better. I know that AKs typically do 2-4 MOA. How about FALs?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:46:59 PM EDT
On a P806 built FAL you can average 2-3 moa with quality ammo. Don't get me wrong, I love my AK's, but please show me some 2 moa AK targets.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:18:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By P806:
On a P806 built FAL you can average 2-3 moa with quality ammo. Don't get me wrong, I love my AK's, but please show me some 2 moa AK targets.



OK... 2 MOA from an AK is probably optimistic. I’m used to rifles that do better than one MOA and groups twice that size are cause to call it a day and go get sloppy drunk.

I do have a Mini-30 that (usually) does better than 3 MOA. Does that cont?

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:02:39 PM EDT
Here is what I get, with MILSURP ammo. This means Wolf in AK, Q3131A/XM193 in AR, and SA/Aussie/Port/Lake City in a FAL:

AR: 2-2.5 MOA
FAL: 2-3MOA
AK: 3-4MOA

With quality ammo, I can get 1MOA with most AR's... better in match barrels. Never really got any better in FALs or AK's. There are battel rifles. I shot my AR10T or PSS if I want tight groups.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:57:18 AM EDT
3 MOA seems to be typical for F A Ls according to the majority of posts on this subject. I have found that Steyr StG58 barrels tend to produce the best accuracy for a milsurp barrel.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:37:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:19:54 PM EDT
Keep in mind that you need to compare "apples to apples". All of the FAL kits out there were at one point, complete rifles. Some were shot little....others were bullet hoses. Steyr barrels are known to have an accuracy edge over, say....Brazilian ones.
A like-new Steyr barreld FAL with the headspace set a "touch" on the tight side will shoot at LEAST 2 MOA (likely better).
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:16:47 AM EDT
Thanks everyone for your replies.

It's a kit gun with a DPMS receiver. I do not know the kit source, just that the receiver was put together by a 'smith.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:48:33 AM EDT
DPMS makes FAL receivers?

Man, what DONT they make?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:09:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
DPMS makes FAL receivers?

Man, what DONT they make?



The used to make 'em, not anymore. My receiver has a low 3-digit serial number.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:21:46 AM EDT
I have a kit gun on a D.C. receiver. Barrel shortened to 16.25 and a Hollan comp screwed on. With iron sights I get 4 inches groups at 200 (2 MOA). I can tag a steel popper at 200 all day long using Eagle 150gr FMJ. Certainly gets the job done.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:42:58 AM EDT
About 3moa for mine.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 11:15:23 AM EDT
100 yard groups from my inch fal (L1A1) are 4" wide by 8" tall when feeding from a magazine. Nice round 4" groups when single loading. Headspace is okay, but... After reading here and at "fal files forums", it looks like some kit guns (like mine) have sloppy lockup between the bolt and carrier at the upper rear section so when you use a magazine to feed it, the spring tension changes as you go through the 20 rounds and that slightly changes the way the bolt is angled when fired, which causes vertical stringing in your groups. I've recently found a couple of extra bolts and carriers though and I'm gonna try switching them around to see which combination gives the tightest lockup with the carrier for the least stringing. A few people have also tried welding a little material into the bolt carrier, and others have tried putting a set screw in the same spot to keep the lockup with the bolt even. I'm hoping I won't have to resort to that sort of stuff. At this point, I'll just be happy if I can stop the stringing. I don't really like the idea of living with 4" groups either, but that's better than 8x4.

This doesn't seem to be a problem for new fals like DSA, etc. Just some of the old kit guns.
Hope you get one that's better than mine.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:12:22 PM EDT
My DSA does about 2" with handloads and about 3-4" with milsurp or Wolf .308 ammo. Not a match for the AR on any day but then again, It's good for my use: 50 - 150yd hunting and general fun shooting.

Hornady 150gr SST bullets will leave a hole that looks like a shotgun blast in the back of an old PC and explode entirely a frozen milk jug. The milsurp is less dramatic, but lets face it. It's .308 and it's fun to make big holes in targets.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:16:07 PM EDT
I had the exact same problem. My SAR-48 will group 2" all day long, but my L1A1 was throwing out a shotgun pattern at 100 yards. First of all I would have headspace checked because you can later that by changing the locking shoulder. I finally got my grouping down to 4" by cleaning the crap out of the barrel. I had a friggin penny factory in there.


Originally Posted By timb3:
100 yard groups from my inch fal (L1A1) are 4" wide by 8" tall when feeding from a magazine. Nice round 4" groups when single loading. Headspace is okay, but... After reading here and at "fal files forums", it looks like some kit guns (like mine) have sloppy lockup between the bolt and carrier at the upper rear section so when you use a magazine to feed it, the spring tension changes as you go through the 20 rounds and that slightly changes the way the bolt is angled when fired, which causes vertical stringing in your groups.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:22:01 PM EDT
Under 2 moa with SA ammo.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:42:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
I had the exact same problem. My SAR-48 will group 2" all day long, but my L1A1 was throwing out a shotgun pattern at 100 yards. First of all I would have headspace checked because you can later that by changing the locking shoulder. I finally got my grouping down to 4" by cleaning the crap out of the barrel. I had a friggin penny factory in there.




My L1a1 was absolutely horrible until I scrubbed the hell out of it with BRASSO (!)

It had such a large quantity of copper fouling in it, that ordinary cleaning methods just weren't cutting it. It now shoots fairly good; 2 or 3 moa.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:18:14 PM EDT
Just pulled off some 1.1 - 1.3" groups today with handloaded 150gr MatchKings. This is the first time I have had repeatable results like that with the FAL. Seems I finally found something it likes to shoot.

- I have no expectation of reaching sub-MOA with it, getting close to 1 MOA with 4 shots has me clicking my heels.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 10:00:34 PM EDT by Dano523]

Originally Posted By Maddogkiller:
I have found that Steyr StG58 barrels tend to produce the best accuracy for a milsurp barrel.




Ditto to that,

Received a kit that was brand new, and got a wild hair to see just what it would do after it was built on a DSA receiver, DSA brake, and the trigger tuned. Using 168's on 4064 with 210m primers, pulled a 1.2" 5-shot group at 100 yards with the gas system on (just enough to cycle the action) and feeding out of the mags. Trust me, this one even suprised me!!!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:34:09 AM EDT
+1 on 2 to 2.5 moa with good ammo
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:29:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
I had the exact same problem. My SAR-48 will group 2" all day long, but my L1A1 was throwing out a shotgun pattern at 100 yards. First of all I would have headspace checked because you can later that by changing the locking shoulder. I finally got my grouping down to 4" by cleaning the crap out of the barrel. I had a friggin penny factory in there.


Originally Posted By timb3:
100 yard groups from my inch fal (L1A1) are 4" wide by 8" tall when feeding from a magazine. Nice round 4" groups when single loading. Headspace is okay, but... After reading here and at "fal files forums", it looks like some kit guns (like mine) have sloppy lockup between the bolt and carrier at the upper rear section so when you use a magazine to feed it, the spring tension changes as you go through the 20 rounds and that slightly changes the way the bolt is angled when fired, which causes vertical stringing in your groups.





I used copper solvent in my barrel too. Mine was the same as yours... really bad. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned until it was nice and pretty in there. I also checked headspace with a field gage, and it wasn't even _close_ to closing on it, so headspace isn't the problem. Anyhow, after cleaning, mine still shoots "shotgun patterns" instead of groups. I've been too busy with work lately to have time to go out and try all of the different bolt and carrier combinations yet. Hopefully, one of them will tighten up my groups. We'll see as soon as I get time... Wish be luck!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:42:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3:
I used copper solvent in my barrel too. Mine was the same as yours... really bad. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned until it was nice and pretty in there. I also checked headspace with a field gage, and it wasn't even _close_ to closing on it, so headspace isn't the problem. Anyhow, after cleaning, mine still shoots "shotgun patterns" instead of groups. I've been too busy with work lately to have time to go out and try all of the different bolt and carrier combinations yet. Hopefully, one of them will tighten up my groups. We'll see as soon as I get time... Wish be luck!



If you are getting "shotgun" groups on a clean barrel, I would look at your crown first, and bore condition second.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 10:35:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By timb3:
I used copper solvent in my barrel too. Mine was the same as yours... really bad. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned until it was nice and pretty in there. I also checked headspace with a field gage, and it wasn't even _close_ to closing on it, so headspace isn't the problem. Anyhow, after cleaning, mine still shoots "shotgun patterns" instead of groups. I've been too busy with work lately to have time to go out and try all of the different bolt and carrier combinations yet. Hopefully, one of them will tighten up my groups. We'll see as soon as I get time... Wish be luck!



If you are getting "shotgun" groups on a clean barrel, I would look at your crown first, and bore condition second.



I'll second that!
A dinged crown is a classic way to mess up groups.
Rifles with bad bores have been known to still shoot reasonable well.
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