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Posted: 1/5/2006 8:40:39 PM EDT
If you had to choose one or the other what would it be?
DSA SA58 or JLD Ent. PTR91.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:40:50 PM EDT
I'd go with the PTR 91. My FALs are very nice but the PTR has been more reliable and it has less parts to break and clean. The FAL seems to be more accurate and better balanced.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:30:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
I'd go with the PTR 91. My FALs are very nice but the PTR has been more reliable and it has less parts to break and clean. The FAL seems to be more accurate and better balanced.



+1 FWIW I find the PTR to be more accurate than my FAL, but I am not a super shot anyway.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:07:59 PM EDT
PTR first - accutrate, reliable cheap mags. Get a B&T scope mount from DSA and you have got a sweet rig.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:20:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:02:52 AM EDT
I am going to go with the FAL for the reasons mentioned plus it has a last round bolt hold open.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:10:34 AM EDT
FAL

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:25:24 PM EDT
FAL. Ergonomics are far superior to the PTR91/G3 in every respect.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:16:12 PM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:18:24 PM EDT
Another FAL vote - my favorite .308! The DSA SA58 is one of the best of the breed.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:04:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 6:06:00 PM EDT by brandyspaw]
I've had both although currently just have an HK-91 and 2 clones. I would favor
the FAL and will be getting another one soon.

The biggest reason is the bolt hold open feature. This is a must have for a main
battle rifle if you ever have to use it for serious use. You have to know when the
mag is empty.

Concerning accuracy I think there is a slight advantage to the HKs but it depends
on the individual gun.

Overall I'd pick a DSA FAL.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:13:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:54:03 PM EDT
I have a well assembled STG58 kit on and Imbel receiver and a PTR-91. Both shoot about the same. I am not a stellar shot and I can make 1.5in groups at 100yrds with a 5x fullfield scope consistently with Lake City 7.62 surplus ammo.
I like both rifles, but I would have to take the FAL over the "stock" PTR-91 for the following reasons:
1. The FAL I bought and had assembled came to a total of $700 and the PTR-91 (after replacing the handguard that melted with one with one hat had a heat shield) came to ~$900.
2. The PTR-91 is picky about ammo, it doesn’t like hunting ammo, such as Remington's Core-Lokt. However, the FAL eats ANYTHING.
3. FAL has a bolt hold open device.
4. The FAL has less felt recoil and allows for a better return-to-target time. I would like to get a large recoil buffer for the PTR, but they are somewhat difficult to find right now.

-JZ
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:37:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JZ556:
I have a well assembled STG58 kit on and Imbel receiver and a PTR-91. Both shoot about the same. I am not a stellar shot and I can make 1.5in groups at 100yrds with a 5x fullfield scope consistently with Lake City 7.62 surplus ammo.
I like both rifles, but I would have to take the FAL over the "stock" PTR-91 for the following reasons:
1. The FAL I bought and had assembled came to a total of $700 and the PTR-91 (after replacing the handguard that melted with one with one hat had a heat shield) came to ~$900.
2. The PTR-91 is picky about ammo, it doesn’t like hunting ammo, such as Remington's Core-Lokt. However, the FAL eats ANYTHING.
3. FAL has a bolt hold open device.
4. The FAL has less felt recoil and allows for a better return-to-target time. I would like to get a large recoil buffer for the PTR, but they are somewhat difficult to find right now.

-JZ



DITTO!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:12:18 AM EDT
FNFAL.

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:55:11 AM EDT
SA58 alot better made gun for the money
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:34:05 PM EDT
I have both... and I like them both. The HK seems lighter than my FAL, shorter barrel. The FAL is much easier to clean and reassemble! Both are reliable, both seem to ding brass pretty badly. HK mags are cheaper, FALs are far easier to work on and more parts options available. Whn I got my FAL I considered selling the HK, but changed my mind pending further investigation.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:14:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dun:
both seem to ding brass pretty badly.



I did not know the FAL did that.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuktukJoe:

Originally Posted By Dun:
both seem to ding brass pretty badly.



I did not know the FAL did that.



My FAL crimps the head of the spent brass. I don't reload so it really doesn’t bother me.

-JZ
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:56:22 AM EDT
SA58 for sure.

The quality difference alone of the two rifles mentioned here almost excluude the PTR91 right off the bat. Two entirely different build stratagies.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:45:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 1:47:54 PM EDT by Bigger_Hammer]
I'm going to swim against the tide on the FAL forum and say PTR.

The Quality of the PTR is an excellent example of a High Quality built gun!!

The mags are THE most affordable out there. $50 will get you 50 great mags!!

I've NEVER had any failure to feed, fire or extract from either my HK91 or PTR91K in years of shooting with all sorts of ammo. Mine have feed hunting ammo with zero problems (fed 150s)

The system is simple, no gas settings to fart with or clean.

Adopted by Saudi Arabia to Norway (shows great range of operating condition that the system will function in)

Easy to Clean and with the modular butt stocks, you can switch between fixed conventional stocks or Para stocks in seconds without modification of the guns (try that with a FAL!)

Scope mounting is not perfect in either system, but I find the system is more solid using the Leapers B&T knock off with detachable rings) or you can use the HK claw for total off and on mounting.

the trigger sucks as the guns come from the factory (think of it as a extra safety when you have to pull 10 pounds to be REALLY sure you want to go "bang"! HOWEVER you can get a great trigger job from Bill Springfield for $49 including shipping which is a screaming great deal!

FAL is a fine rifle and I like mine, (wish the G-3 had a last shot hold open) but the FAL just feels so L-O-N-G compared to the G-3 systems.

BIGGER_HAMMER




Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:27:24 PM EDT
I haven't fired the other gun but my SA58 is one sweet weapon. I love the gas piston cleanability. Wish my AR had one like it. BTW, what is the DSA bolt/carrier system called? I thought it was a roller block? Whatever it is, it is very easily cleaned. I have never had a problem with FTE or FTF.

There is only two things I'd change on my SA58:

I would change the angle of the stock so when using iron sites at the low ranges, I wouldn't have to push my cheek weld so far down. It's hurts my neck. The lower should be configured so the rear site is higher by about one inch.

The other thing I'd change, or maybe I'm not aware of the possibilities, is a buffer like MGI or Enidine to put into the stock. The SA58 doesn't have severe recoil at all, but a buffer would make it way better imho.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:17:17 AM EDT
I finally decided to buy myself a DS Arms SA-58 and priced it out at 2100 bucks. A local dealer here in detroit, could deliver it for 2050.oo out the door, I thought it was a fair deal, but I opted to check a few more dealers, just figured that with this much money on the line, it wouldn't hurt to ask around. Low and behold, one of the dealers had a slightly used SA-58 carbine with match trigger, DSA rail top cover, and bipod, for about half of the expected cost of the new unit. Even though the carbine wasn't the para that I had my heart set on, I snatched it up anyway. Which brings me to the PTR-91 portion of the program.......with still HALF of my purchase budget intact, I went out and found a PTR-91 A3, and added it to my collection as well! Have not had time to shoot either of them yet, as weather and scheduling have not been cooperating, but those things could change at any moment. I must say that I am satisfied with the way this turned-out!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:04:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slmartina:
I finally decided to buy myself a DS Arms SA-58 and priced it out at 2100 bucks. A local dealer here in detroit, could deliver it for 2050.oo out the door, I thought it was a fair deal, but I opted to check a few more dealers, just figured that with this much money on the line, it wouldn't hurt to ask around. Low and behold, one of the dealers had a slightly used SA-58 carbine with match trigger, DSA rail top cover, and bipod, for about half of the expected cost of the new unit. Even though the carbine wasn't the para that I had my heart set on, I snatched it up anyway. Which brings me to the PTR-91 portion of the program.......with still HALF of my purchase budget intact, I went out and found a PTR-91 A3, and added it to my collection as well! Have not had time to shoot either of them yet, as weather and scheduling have not been cooperating, but those things could change at any moment. I must say that I am satisfied with the way this turned-out!



The rifle you purchased is an excellent choice. However, I am unaware of a FAL "match" trigger. Besides polishing the pins and attempting to mess with the spring tension, like many have attempted, there is no real way to create a match trigger on a FAL. .30 trigger jobs are more commonly found on M14's and Garands.

The FAL rifle clearly trumps the G3 type rifle for many reasons I'm not interested in typing. Magazine price doesn't determine the quality of a battle rifle.

The G3 was the AK47 of the West during the cold war. Cheap and easy to mass produce for a country devistated by war and in the economic toilet. I have never been a big fan of the HK system though many HK's have hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and still run strong.

Fact is Belguim was still quite pissed at Germany in the 1950's for their poor behavior across the European continent in the 30's and 40's. Although under pressure from NATO, FN was willing to produce the G1 FAL for West Germany, but they refused to license Germany to produce the FN FAL rifle themselves. Belguim essentialy wanted Germany to sleep in their own shit. Germany then turned to the facist sympathetic government of Spain for a license to produce the CETME locally in Deutschland. Had FN allowed Germany to produce the FAL, the G3 would have never happened and Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia would have had to be content with the CETME.

I would trust my life with a FAL and most likely, only a FAL.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:12:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By slmartina:
I finally decided to buy myself a DS Arms SA-58 and priced it out at 2100 bucks. A local dealer here in detroit, could deliver it for 2050.oo out the door, I thought it was a fair deal, but I opted to check a few more dealers, just figured that with this much money on the line, it wouldn't hurt to ask around. Low and behold, one of the dealers had a slightly used SA-58 carbine with match trigger, DSA rail top cover, and bipod, for about half of the expected cost of the new unit. Even though the carbine wasn't the para that I had my heart set on, I snatched it up anyway. Which brings me to the PTR-91 portion of the program.......with still HALF of my purchase budget intact, I went out and found a PTR-91 A3, and added it to my collection as well! Have not had time to shoot either of them yet, as weather and scheduling have not been cooperating, but those things could change at any moment. I must say that I am satisfied with the way this turned-out!



The rifle you purchased is an excellent choice. However, I am unaware of a FAL "match" trigger. Besides polishing the pins and attempting to mess with the spring tension, like many have attempted, there is no real way to create a match trigger on a FAL. .30 trigger jobs are more commonly found on M14's and Garands.



DSA offers a "match grade" trigger job as an option.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:04:57 PM EDT
I am probably one of the unlucky few but I have had a lot of problems with my PTR and it is the LAST thing I would grab out of my safe if I really needed something. I plan to buy a FAL once I save up some money.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:19:35 PM EDT
Almost 6's for me - both work well. Toy - Not sure what you mean by alot of problems with PTR. Send it back to them and they will fix them. Some of the early ones built had problem but as far as I know JLD repaired or replaced all the problem rifles.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:03:53 PM EDT
FAL or in my case the STG 58, to be fair I've only been able to operate CAI made G3's and CETME's so I really can't comment on the PTR. I do find it hard to imagine however something better than my STG 58.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:17:16 PM EDT
by my count that's 15 definite yes's for the SA58 and only 4 for the PTR. granted this is the FAL section but i've been looking over at HK as well and it seems there are quite a few posts about problems/ dissatisfaction with the 91. thanks to everybody for their feeedback.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:06:42 PM EDT
+1 for FAL SA58.

My buddy has a PTR Para model. It was a jam-o-matic. With both failures to feed and extract.

Negatives:
91's and clones have poor ergonomics. (At least for me... my fingers can't reach the safety or mag catch without changing my grip position.) No last round bolt hold open. The delayed recoil blowback makes the action filthy. Assembling the bolt(and carrier) is a pain. Adding optics requires much more expensive mounts. (HK Claw mount vs. DSA Dustcover mount.)

Positives:
Cheaply priced high quality mags. Decent accuracy. Fairly light weight. Low recoil. Straight line mag insertion

My DSA SA58 with the carbine length handguard has had no failures yet.

Negatives:
Rock and lock mag insertion. Fairly heavy weight. Medium to heavy recoil.

Positives:
Cheaply priced Good quality mags. Decent ergonomics. (better than 91, no where near an AR). Last round bolt hold open. Adjustable gas system. Very easy to break down and clean with very little crud in the action. Solid and reasonably priced rail system for top cover. (DSA's) Decent accuracy.

Last round BHO, better ergonomics and assured reliability are what really sold me on the SA58. Also, I feel there is something really nice about having a machined receiver over one that is stamped out of sheet metal then welded together. Fit and finish of DSA's products are awesome and something to be proud of.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 8:08:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 8:09:16 PM EDT by dogbert4-1]
I've been very impressed with my DSA STG58 carbine build. It's still the go to rifle in my safe. Considering it's nearly 50 years of age and only on it's second life, I imagine this cat has got a few hundred more years to go and will end up on someone's wall.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:37:56 PM EDT
My DSA 16" FAL is still one of my favorite rifles. I've been really getting into the AK world recently, but the DSA has been a near perfect rifle and I will NEVER sell it.. Good choice getting one, man!
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