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Posted: 9/1/2003 4:04:26 PM EDT
I'm in the market for a .308. I've looked at and like the Eagle Arms flattop. I have a friend who is a die hard H&K fan and swears by the H&K 91. I've shot his 91 and he is correct, it is a fine rifle. I've also been to the DSArms website. I must confess they are probably the only FAL I would buy at this point. Their Tactical series seems hard to beat. How would they compare to a 91? More or less accurate? Does my friend have a point, should I spend more for the H&K?

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 4:38:08 AM EDT
I think it would boil down to what you liked to shoot the best. I had a HK-91 back befor ethe ban and sold it because I didn't like the way it shot. Accuracy and reliability was fine, but the receiver hump beat on me enough that I didn't like the gun. I liked the FAL better. Many people are the other way around. I personally DO like the AR-10. I also own a couple M14 types (pre-ban M1A match, and a Polytech with all TRW parts) and they're nice as well, but different guns too.

Shoot whatever you can choose from, and then decide what you like. As far as quality goes, as long as you choose a high quality gun, like a DSA, or a HK, Armalite, etc, you'll own a high quality gun. Get cheap and buy a $300 Century CETME, and you may or may not.

Ross
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 5:54:19 AM EDT
I would steer clear of the HK G3's and Cetmes. personally I find the AR10 to be a fine, fine rifle but lacking the durability and reliability of a FAL. Personally if you are starting out as a .308 beginner I would pick up a FAL for my first choice and an M1A for my second. Personally I will always go with a FAL. I too dislike the 91.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 10:00:15 AM EDT
MaineAR,
I suggest you also visit arizonaresponsesystems.com

I own an STG58 built by Mark and I love it. He does fine work.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 7:07:38 PM EDT
FAL
without a doubt
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 2:41:22 AM EDT
DSA FAL all the way, they're the Cadies of FAL's. Not to mention you can easily find parts for it, and used mag's start at $7. Where as the 91 mag's start at $35 and skyrocket from there.

Hope this helps!
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 6:48:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:
DSA FAL all the way, they're the Cadies of FAL's. Not to mention you can easily find parts for it, and used mag's start at $7. Where as the 91 mag's start at $35 and skyrocket from there.

Hope this helps!



I'm about as big a FAL geek as there is, but you can find cheap mags for the HK as well. Tapco has them for around $6 IIRC.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 9:16:09 AM EDT
IMHO, a weapon system is as good as its support.

You noted accuracy & cost.

Support for any HK can be costly, for something moreless domestic obsolete, very costly. Spare parts inventory combined with a semi complex system made me always shy away from them. I enjoy shooting a HK, but for ownership they are a scarlet letter amongst themselves.

The DSA FAL is a simple system, and a complete spare kit can be had for a hundred bucks. The CAD assembly insure a top notch weapon. I can vouch for extreme accuracy. I was very impressed in a big canyon, and it outshoots myself and my ACOG on top of it.

Make sure and stop by www.falfiles.com and www.hkpro.com and read around. I think these truths will become self evident.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 10:53:09 AM EDT
I've had them all, including the Galils and Beretta M59/62, at one time or another. AR10 is nice, but the reliability is just not there...or at least wasn't for me. The H&K is an excellent rifle, (I had several when you could buy them for under $500 on sale...yes, on sale!) and I really like the M1A and Beretta, but...for me...the FAL is the best of all. You won't go wrong with any of these choices provided you make certain to get the "real thing" and stay away from the newest M1A's with mostly non GI parts.

And I second the recommendation for Mark Graham and ARS along with DSA. I have two of his FALs...both solid, accurate and reliable.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:57:22 PM EDT
You guys are great!! Thank you all very much for the responses......now to make a decision :)

March on.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 7:48:50 AM EDT
FAL...I have 2 DSA's one STG58 abd SA58...both are very nice. In fact, they shoot about the same, so if want to save a few $$ get the STG58, it really is sweet!!

Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:18:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 9:26:25 AM EDT by retrodog]
So you ask this question on a FAL forum and SURPRISE, you get a lot of people telling you that they prefer the FAL. Wow, what were the chances?

I've got an HK-91 and a Century FAL. Wow, that's a little imbalanced. Best of the 91s and worst of the FALs.

But back to the point. I like both of them, especially since CIA fixed the feeding problem of the FAL. The FAL kicks somewhat less. The HK bangs my shoulder pretty good. I have other friends with FALs and they are nice. But you still sometimes have to search around for a specific mag make that works best with them, even the DSAs.

The HK, on the other hand, has HK mags abundently available at $3 per 20 rnd. mag, for the aluminum ones.

The only thing I'd like the HK to have is perhaps a last round (empty mag) bolt hold open feature. Otherwise it is one helluva battle rifle. But so is the FAL if you get a good one.

My advice? Get both. If money is a problem, get a Springfield Greek SAR-8 for the HK91 category and then find a good dependable FAL.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:56:52 PM EDT
One point not made yet:

How anal are you about cleaning?

HK's...do NOT clean easily. Quite honestly, after 300 rounds...they're dirtier than any AR. Period. My HK93 gets so gunked up...it still functions, mind you, but holy crap, it takes close to 2 hours just to get the reciever in a condition I'd call "clean", and even then...it's not pristene. I've not pushed my HK past there...but I wouldn't want to, either. Too much gunk. Too dirty.

FALs, on the other hand, clean up in no time. Compared to an HK91, they run a far cleaner system. Most of your cleanup will be wiping off the oprod, swabbing the gas tube if you're so inclined, and swabbing down the bore. Everything else just wipes straight off.

FAL mags can be had for dirt cheap, as well as G3/HK91 mags.

I have an HK93...and I'm about to sell it. Just too dirty for me, and this is as a guy who has 4 different AR's. Those get dirty, but HK's get dirty like you wouldn't believe.

Just offering another viewpoint..
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 8:42:02 PM EDT
I'm another shooter who remembers when you could buy these rifles just about anywhere. I've owned or shot just about all of them and in 7.62 I personally like the FAL. Then HK is nice, but it seems to kick harder than the FAL. Might have something to do with the HK's hard plastic buttplate vs the FAL's rubber one. You also get a last shot bolt hold open with the FAL and it is much more easier to clean. But, if you can afford them, just buy both! Just make sure you buy a quality weapon and not a cheap one just to save a few bucks.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:20:53 AM EDT
The Hk91 'kicks' harder than the FAL becouse of the operating system.
The FAL Has A rather complex gas system witch bleeds gas pressure from the system to cycle the action.
It also absorbs some of the recoil as it diverts gas to operate the gun.
The HK91 uses what H&K call "Roller Delayed Blowback".
To put this in laymens terms when you fire the G3 the force of the bullet itself is cycling the action.
Since their is no gas bleed off to work the bolt all the energy is transfered into the bolt witch is then transfered into the receiver then the stock then you.
The retarded blowback of the G3 is A lot more violent than the FAL and extraction failure is more prevalent...expecially when the chamber flutes get all fouled up and no longer float the case out but instead just grab onto it.
Of course at this point your screwed coz 1 of 2 things happen,
1- your extractor breaks
OR
2- The case head gets ripped off, bolt comes back forward strips another round james it into the breach and then nothing.
$1000 dollar paper weight.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:50:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 7:51:31 PM EDT by Dano523]
Regarding the 308 in a semi, there are a few platforms out there to choose from.

For me, the HK is great for off hand shooting when I need a smaller/tighter platform. The FAL is a good open sight platform for rested shooting, but a tad too long to shoot off hand or use to clean a room. If you are looking to go scoped, the AR-10 and DPMS 308 (flat top) are hard to beat. As far as shooting match (308), then a built M1A is the only way to go.

Bottom line is to figure out what the end product and purpose of the rifle is going to be, then work from there. All the rifle will work fine and could be used for pretty much anything, but each will win out over each other in different types of shooting.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 5:06:45 AM EDT
I've owned both the HK-91 and the FAL. I still have an FAL.

The HK was a fine rifle, well made, and accurate. But, for my money, it handled like a heavy 2x4.

I much prefer FALs. To me they're more ergonomic, parts are much less expensive, and I like the ability to adjust the gas system for different types of ammunition. And as a couple others have mentioned, cleaning an FAL is just about as easy as it gets.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 9:10:05 AM EDT
I was where you are now about nine months ago. Knew I wanted a .308 battle rifle and was initially interested in getting the HK. Liked the way the looked and the HK name and German mfg. gave it an aura of quality. However knew very little about the various .308 alternatives. As I started to research and read the various forums I became convinced that an FAL made a lot more sense, mostly for the reasons outlined above - i.e price/value, parts availability, reliability, less recoil, bolt hold open, ease of cleaning, etc.

Ended up buying a parts kit and a receiver and having ARS put it together for me. Have never regretted my decision. A well built FAL is a joy to shoot. It is accurate (mine's a little over 2 MOA), absolutely reliable (0 FTE of FTF after a couple of thousand rounds) and just a tremendous amount of fun.

Does an HK have a little more "snob" appeal/greater collectability? Probably. Is the AR10 a little more ergonomic? For me, yes. But if you are looking for the best combination of reliability, value and fun I don't think you can go wrong with an FAL.

Like a couple of other posters, I would also recommend ARS if you are looking for someone to build one for you. He does absolutely first rate work and although a little gruff, like his rifles, he is a straight shooter.
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