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Posted: 7/4/2003 8:15:51 AM EDT
So here's my list. It's a STG58 Carbine model. Anyone else had issues like this?

1) Got the gun, ran a couple of hundred rounds of SA surplus thruit. 100% functionality. I tried some Port .308, and had some "hard primer" issues. Called up DSA and their solution was "Use some different ammo. I use Black Hills myself!" Installed an FSE H/T/S set, and problem was solved.
2) Fail to feed. Once the hard primer deal was finished, I took it out with the new H/T/S to run a ton of Port .308 thru it. I had a BUNCH of failure to feed problems. I thought it was the ammo, so I got the old standby SA out, and tried it. Same problem! Sometimes the round would nose down into the feed ramps, sometimes it would not come out of the mag at all, and sometimes it would chamber only halfway. Tried different mags, tearing the rifle apart and cleaning/lubing, NOTHING worked. Turns out the return springs were worn (I got some new ones, and the old ones were a full 3" shorter than the replacements).
3) All fixed right? NO! Took the rifle out thinking all was well, loaded up some tracers one Friday night, and ran thru a mag of them. Three, count them, THREE doubles. (sigh) Apparently the FSE H/T/S set has some issues. I contacted the manufacturer, and sent them off for a replacement set. Just did this yesterday, so I'm waiting on the parts.

I'm wondering if I should have just sent the damn thing back to DSA, but their "use some different ammo" argument kinda irked me. I HOPE to take the thing out when the new H/T/S set gets here, and have it run 100%. Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 9:31:59 AM EDT
Hmmm... well, I would bet that your original "hard primer" could have been solved with a new hammer spring. If your recoil spring was so worn, I'm sure the hammer spring could stand replacement as well.

Also, on the FTF problems... did you play with the gas system before installing the new spring? That would have been my diagnosis.

Fianlly, on the doubling issue, contact Harold Shinn at FSE directly. He is a really good guy and stands behind his product 100%. He can be found by doing a search at the FALfiles.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 9:45:26 AM EDT
Gloftoe, which version of FSE h/t/s do you have? There were known problems with the M02 marked stuff after 100 rounds of use or so. Harold Shin redesigned the set and the newest stuff is marked M3 or M03, I can't remember which. Harold Shin will replace the parts free of charge providing you mail him your old parts. If you still run into problems after replacing the parts then your best bet is to install some original trigger group parts. The original hammers are heavier, which allows for better ignition and trigger reset. But you can only use them if your foreign parts count is up to snuff.

FWIW, I had probs with the M02 marked FSE parts after 200 rounds or so, doubling, fail to feed, and light strikes on the primer. I replaced all the parts with an original set and all the probs went away. I have since installed the latest version of FSE internals and have yet to experience any problems but[/but] I have less than 100 rounds through my FAL with the improved set.

If you need a set of originals to experiment with let me know. I think I have like 4 or 5 spare sets
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 9:58:55 AM EDT
What Seth said. Same story here, and Harold Shin will send you a new fire control group if you email him and ask nicely. Also, get a new sear spring, I don't know if DSA uses new sear springs or not but the spring in my Century gun was probably an original STG spring from 50 years ago. Even with a brand new fire control group, a 50 year old sear spring can cause doubling.

As far as feeding problems, check your mags and check that the bolt is in spec.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:27:10 AM EDT
Yep, I contacted Harold Shinn directly, and he is replacing my parts free of charge. He's a real classy guy.

Seth, my hammer and trigger were marked "M02", and my sear was marked "M3".

Cliffy, I fondled and tweaked and played around with that gas system so much I felt like a dirty old man But yeah, that was my original diagnosis as well.

HOPEFULLY (since I solved the first two problems already) a new HTS will do it, and the gun will run 100%. (crosses fingers)
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 4:58:13 PM EDT
THOSE ARENT FALS.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 7:50:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZRH:
THOSE ARENT FALS.





Yes Gloft, you mean your DSA SLR is malfunctioning. Since your "FAL" isn't full auto it's not a real FAL by definition is it?



P.S. inside joke for those who have no idea what we're talking about.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 8:04:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:

Originally Posted By ZRH:
THOSE ARENT FALS.





Yes Gloft, you mean your DSA SLR is malfunctioning. Since your "FAL" isn't full auto it's not a real FAL by definition is it?



P.S. inside joke for those who have no idea what we're talking about.



WELL SAID!
HUNTER.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 6:11:05 AM EDT
You should put the DSA trigger parts back in it, believe me DSA rifles don't fail. The STG58 guns have used parts kit springs in them, your problem most likely would have been solved by just replacing the recoil and hammer return springs. DSA trigger parts are top flight. You also need to check your gas setting. The wrong gas setting will cause the rifle not to feed or cause the bolt to slam against the lower receiver real hard. Pop the extractor out and I betcha there is a roll of grease lodged in the extractor spring, if you are not very good with gun-smithing, I wouldn't recomend you remove the extractor on your own. Replace firing pin spring and replace sear spring when you put the DSA trigger parts back in. Replace trigger plunger spring. Use DSA springs they are super tight. recheck your gas setting and I betcha it's hummin. I shoot Portugese through mine all day long. Zero problems.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 6:16:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
What Seth said. Same story here, and Harold Shin will send you a new fire control group if you email him and ask nicely. Also, get a new sear spring, I don't know if DSA uses new sear springs or not but the spring in my Century gun was probably an original STG spring from 50 years ago. Even with a brand new fire control group, a 50 year old sear spring can cause doubling.

As far as feeding problems, check your mags and check that the bolt is in spec.



If DSA headspaced it, it is right.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 6:56:57 AM EDT
Port ammo with hard primers is well-documented. It is an ammo problem. I have 1976 vintage Port with hard primers. My DSA and HK eats it up, but my AR10 with a match trigger will not reliably ignite it. In fact, a friend with an FMP HK also had a failure to ignite some of my Port.

SA milsurp seems to be good. I also have Hirtenburger, which is of excellent quality.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 11:11:36 AM EDT
Should have bought a Century......
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 2:47:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dru:
Should have bought a Century......



Put the cap back on the glue bottle dude
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:32:44 AM EDT
I have had no problems with my DSA StG-58. It eats Port without any problems. I'm very happy with the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:10:16 AM EDT
Patriot: I didn't mean headspacing. The area of the bolt that picks up rounds off of the left side of the magazine isn't very big, and if it is rough or chipped it can easily skip over the left-side bullet causing a variety of jamming issues similar to what Gloftoe has described. Combined with a weak mag spring it may not pick up the round at all--combined with a sticky mag follower you can even get the AR15-style "nose high" jam. I was just thinking that maybe a brand new bolt with no "break in" could have issues in that area, but I know DSA does a fine job of headspacing.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 8:02:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Patriot: I didn't mean headspacing. The area of the bolt that picks up rounds off of the left side of the magazine isn't very big, and if it is rough or chipped it can easily skip over the left-side bullet causing a variety of jamming issues similar to what Gloftoe has described. Combined with a weak mag spring it may not pick up the round at all--combined with a sticky mag follower you can even get the AR15-style "nose high" jam. I was just thinking that maybe a brand new bolt with no "break in" could have issues in that area, but I know DSA does a fine job of headspacing.



This is true. DSA could have missed a bolt problem. If I had to guess, I would almost guarntee it's the extractor spring
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:01:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:
This is true. DSA could have missed a bolt problem. If I had to guess, I would almost guarntee it's the extractor spring


*peer*

HOW would an extractor spring make my ammo not FEED from the mag?

UPDATE: I got a new HTS set from FSE (he replaced for free, and upon receipt of my old set, he NEXT DAY'd (I believe) a new set. This set is M03, M03, and M3. I haven't test fired yet, but I can't make the hammer fall like I could the other set.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 11:17:44 PM EDT
It will work once you install the new parts. It worked for a short time before, you said 100 rounds. If there was a bolt or mag problem it wouldn't have functioned beforehand. Many of the the older FSE stuff exhibited the exact same probs right at about the same amount of ammo useage. I still don't understand how the extractor spring has anything to do with it...

Good luck (you don't need it) and make sure you keep us updated.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:43:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
Originally Posted By patriot73:
This is true. DSA could have missed a bolt problem. If I had to guess, I would almost guarntee it's the extractor spring


*peer*

HOW would an extractor spring make my ammo not FEED from the mag?

UPDATE: I got a new HTS set from FSE (he replaced for free, and upon receipt of my old set, he NEXT DAY'd (I believe) a new set. This set is M03, M03, and M3. I haven't test fired yet, but I can't make the hammer fall like I could the other set.

Yeah you can't make the hammer fall because the sear is too long and or/ the trigger is out of spec and has to travel too high to release the sear and bottoms out on the DSA selector switch, probably both. Buy another magazine, and you will still have this problem they are $8 and I have NEVER had one fail. An extractor spring will not cause your mag to not feed it will cause the empty round to get jammed up and not spit it out, which will in turn cause your mag not to feed. Taking the DSA FCG out was an error. I have installed FSE FCG's and they are nowhere near the quality of the DSA FCG. Your magazine is failing to feed because either....
it is bad, but I doubt it
When DSA set the gas system, they did it up here in IL and when they shipped it to you in different atmospheric conditions, it needs to be re-adjusted
Bad or dirty ammo....most likely
extractor spring, take it out of the bolt and I bet you it is jammed with muck.
bad or improperly installed recoil springs
bad or improperly installed gas piston. If you took the rifle apart when you got it as we all do, make sure the gas plug reads A and not G if it is set on G, obviously that is for launching grenades and will cause you to have a single shot rifle. If there is a 3-position selector switch, which I doubt it does, if in FA position, it will only fire single shots. Don't listen to those who tell you to drill out the gas hole, that is just wrong. Replace the extractor spring, open the gas nut to 5, make sure your gas plug is set correct, make sure your are lubed, put the DSA FCG back in and you will be hummin. I promise.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:45:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
Originally Posted By patriot73:
This is true. DSA could have missed a bolt problem. If I had to guess, I would almost guarntee it's the extractor spring


*peer*

HOW would an extractor spring make my ammo not FEED from the mag?

UPDATE: I got a new HTS set from FSE (he replaced for free, and upon receipt of my old set, he NEXT DAY'd (I believe) a new set. This set is M03, M03, and M3. I haven't test fired yet, but I can't make the hammer fall like I could the other set.

Yeah you can't make the hammer fall because the sear is too long and or/ the trigger is out of spec and has to travel too high to release the sear and bottoms out on the DSA selector switch, probably both. Buy another magazine, and you will still have this problem they are $8 and I have NEVER had one fail. An extractor spring will not cause your mag to not feed it will cause the empty round to get jammed up and not spit it out, which will in turn cause your mag not to feed. Taking the DSA FCG out was an error. I have installed FSE FCG's and they are nowhere near the quality of the DSA FCG. Your magazine is failing to feed because either....
it is bad, but I doubt it
When DSA set the gas system, they did it up here in IL and when they shipped it to you in different atmospheric conditions, it needs to be re-adjusted
Bad or dirty ammo....most likely
extractor spring, take it out of the bolt and I bet you it is jammed with muck.
bad or improperly installed recoil springs
bad or improperly installed gas piston. If you took the rifle apart when you got it as we all do, make sure the gas plug reads A and not G if it is set on G, obviously that is for launching grenades and will cause you to have a single shot rifle. If there is a 3-position selector switch, which I doubt it does, if in FA position, it will only fire single shots. Don't listen to those who tell you to drill out the gas hole, that is just wrong. Replace the extractor spring, open the gas nut to 5, make sure your gas plug is set correct, make sure your are lubed, put the DSA FCG back in and you will be hummin. I promise.

Oh yeah and if you are going to shoot Portugese, replace the firing pin spring too. My FALS feed it flawless but I replace my springs :)
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:49:10 AM EDT
I'm tellin ya man, I just read your original post again. I promise you you have spring problems. Just try replacing the springs, if it doesn't help, you have blown 5 bucks big deal. make sure you have an extractor tool and alot of patience, the extractor spring is a bitch. And check your gas plug and nut, open it up a litte and keep it on A
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 4:07:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By Dru:
Should have bought a Century......



Put the cap back on the glue bottle dude



Sorry I couldn't resist.....
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:08:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dru:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By Dru:
Should have bought a Century......



Put the cap back on the glue bottle dude



Sorry I couldn't resist.....



LOL
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 2:37:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 2:43:44 PM EDT by venturini]
DRU: you had me going there.
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