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Posted: 8/8/2002 6:44:54 PM EDT
just got a rumor today that a bunch of M1s are
coming in from Korea-supposed to be complete,clean and well priced. If it happens
will post info when and where.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 4:35:47 AM EDT
ammohound,

This rumor could ONLY be true if the US State Dept. has rescinded an order that specifically prevents US Made Military Weapons from being re-imported to the US.

Also, if true, Garands and M1 Carbines (possibly '03 Spfld's) would instantly be seen flooding in from not only Korea but from the Phillipines, Turkey, Greece, Canada, VietNam, and other places too.

Lot's of countries have bou-coup old US rifles and can't send them back here because of the silly State Dept. ruling. Once the door is opened (if ever) they'll be coming in in train loads at rock bottom prices.

I hope it's true, but I'm not holding my breath.....

Best regards,
Swampy
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 7:36:55 PM EDT
swampy
you are right about the regs on reimportation
and its costing us alot of lost opportunity to
enjoy our hobby. The fella who told me about
the M1s is a dealer and someone I trust, but then again a rumor is just that..., so Ill
keep my ears open and advise if this one is true
or not.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:02:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ammohound33:
just got a rumor today that a bunch of M1s are
coming in from Korea-supposed to be complete,clean and well priced. If it happens
will post info when and where.



The only way than can come back complete is if the Army brings them back for the CMP.
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 1:35:29 PM EDT
and the ONLY way the army can bring them back to give them to the CMP is if they were lent to these countries not sold to them....
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 1:45:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighPowerShooter:
and the ONLY way the army can bring them back to give them to the CMP is if they were lent to these countries not sold to them....



That is not necessarily true, what regulation governs that type of transaction?
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:26:47 PM EDT
the way it was explained to me by Orest Michaels (Director of CMP)the only way weapons can be brought back into this country, to get around this importation ban, is if they were lent to the foreign country by the military in the first place.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 4:48:14 AM EDT
HighPowerShooter wrote:

"the way it was explained to me by Orest Michaels (Director of CMP) the only way weapons can be brought back into this country, to get around this importation ban, is if they were lent (NOT SOLD or GIVEN !!) to the foreign country by the military in the first place."

BINGO !!!!!

ala the Dane return Garands which CMP now sells. These were loaned to Denmark "way back when", not sold to them or given to them. The Danes simply returned them to US Army inventory after they determined them to be surplus to their needs.

Unfortunately, Denmark was the only country to which we loaned Garands. All the rest were sold or given to the countries that now have them. (The difference between selling, loaning and giving away rifles may seem insignificant to you and me, but is quite significant within the wording of the State Dept. ruling on the subject.)

Best to all,
Garands forever,
Swampy
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 2:55:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swampy:
HighPowerShooter wrote:

"the way it was explained to me by Orest Michaels (Director of CMP) the only way weapons can be brought back into this country, to get around this importation ban, is if they were lent (NOT SOLD or GIVEN !!) to the foreign country by the military in the first place."

BINGO !!!!!

ala the Dane return Garands which CMP now sells. These were loaned to Denmark "way back when", not sold to them or given to them. The Danes simply returned them to US Army inventory after they determined them to be surplus to their needs.

Unfortunately, Denmark was the only country to which we loaned Garands. All the rest were sold or given to the countries that now have them. (The difference between selling, loaning and giving away rifles may seem insignificant to you and me, but is quite significant within the wording of the State Dept. ruling on the subject.)

Best to all,
Garands forever,
Swampy



First, Orest Michaels is the Chief Operating Officer; Gary Anderson is the Director.

When I was talking to the Guys from CMP South; (They shot in relay one at the Garand match I was in relay three) the only way guns can come back is through the Army. The problem was the Army would have to take possession and put them on their books (Something they were not keen on doing). They would then have to transfer them to the CMP. The way it was explained to me, it did not matter if they were on loan or sold. As long as the Army was the import point, it did not matter. The main point was the Army would have to bring them back. I also found out the CMP is barred from selling any weapon in the active inventory. That is why we will not see M-14's. In addition, a lot of the remaining M-14's (the ones that escaped the crusher) were sent to Bosnia.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 3:06:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ammohound33:
swampy
you are right about the regs on reimportation
and its costing us alot of lost opportunity to
enjoy our hobby. The fella who told me about
the M1s is a dealer and someone I trust, but then again a rumor is just that..., so Ill
keep my ears open and advise if this one is true
or not.



Your buddy is right concerning dealers but not the CMP. The guys from CMP south said CMP is exempt from that law and other laws that apply to dealers. (That is why they can ship directly to your home). As long as the Army claims the rifles as property and put them on their property books, it can be transferred to the CMP.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 1:02:21 PM EDT
Hey guys....How did the TAPCO M16A2 kits get back in the country? I didn't know the details of the "lend" and "return" programs, but just happened to remember that TAPCO kits of a year or so ago. Were they a "lend" program?
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 1:04:06 PM EDT
The TAPCO kits were everything minus a lower, right? That mean they're not covered under that law?

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 4:30:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By ammohound33:
swampy
you are right about the regs on reimportation
and its costing us alot of lost opportunity to
enjoy our hobby. The fella who told me about
the M1s is a dealer and someone I trust, but then again a rumor is just that..., so Ill
keep my ears open and advise if this one is true
or not.



Your buddy is right concerning dealers but not the CMP. The guys from CMP south said CMP is exempt from that law and other laws that apply to dealers. (That is why they can ship directly to your home). As long as the Army claims the rifles as property and put them on their property books, it can be transferred to the CMP.


Is the reason they ship directly to us because they perform the NICS check there? I figured that was why they wanted photo id and a birth certificate (or other proof of citizenship) in addition to the club membership proof.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 6:42:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplite:

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By ammohound33:
swampy
you are right about the regs on reimportation
and its costing us alot of lost opportunity to
enjoy our hobby. The fella who told me about
the M1s is a dealer and someone I trust, but then again a rumor is just that..., so Ill
keep my ears open and advise if this one is true
or not.



Your buddy is right concerning dealers but not the CMP. The guys from CMP south said CMP is exempt from that law and other laws that apply to dealers. (That is why they can ship directly to your home). As long as the Army claims the rifles as property and put them on their property books, it can be transferred to the CMP.


Is the reason they ship directly to us because they perform the NICS check there? I figured that was why they wanted photo id and a birth certificate (or other proof of citizenship) in addition to the club membership proof.



I did not ask that question. When I asked about the M-14's he said that the select fire issue (once select fire always select fire) could probably be overcome with the ATF. He said the CMP was exempt from the laws anyway and as an example, he referred to why they can ship a rifle to your house without an FFL intervening. I think the paperwork is due diligence on their part. It was also at this point he said we would probably never see M-14's for sale.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 7:26:35 PM EDT
the CMP will never have M-14 rifles for sale, something about a change of the law and the CMP chrater is necessary. maybe if springfield armory or another manuafacture did a M1A deal with them.

about 1.3 million M14s were ever made for the us military. over 750,000 were destroyed during the Klinton years alone. who knows how many others have been destroyed before or after and how many have been sent to god knows what countries. gotta wonder just how many are left.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 4:10:50 AM EDT
That sucks.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 4:10:13 PM EDT
yeah i agree... but with bushy doing ar-15's for them. maybe one of the m-14 type rifle manufacturers will cut a deal with them. personally i like the feel of my m1a much better than the AR.

they way i see it the CMP is exempt from no laws. they are an exception to the law. they do the background check. the questions on the form are the same as a 4473.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 4:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2002 5:24:02 PM EDT by QCMGR]

Originally Posted By snafu:
....they way i see it the CMP is exempt from no laws. they are an exception to the law. they do the background check. the questions on the form are the same as a 4473.



You can see it any way you want but the reality is they are exempt.

Sec. 40733. - Applicability of other law

Section 922(a)(1)-(3) and (5) of title 18 does not apply to the shipment, transportation, receipt, transfer, sale, issuance, loan, or delivery by the corporation, of an item that the corporation is authorized to issue, loan, sell, or receive under this chapter

Go to www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/stIIpBch407schII.html and work your way to www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/40733.html
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 6:26:07 PM EDT
ok i see your point. this section deals with them being able to ship firearms directly for sale to citizens of the US. the only corporation in the US that can do so. thus my statement they are an exception to the law.

basically they are a corp set up by the law to sell us surplus M1 rifles. one of a kind. and i hope they exist for long time to come...
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 7:39:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2002 7:45:24 PM EDT by stator]
The CMP is surely exempt from some laws. Just ask anyone from CA who purchased rifles from them. M1 Garand are checked through NICs and sent directly to the buyer's door including doors located in CA. Ironically, which is against CA laws and no other dealer can do.

BTW, the import ban is by executive order of Clinton. Bush can easily rescind this order by the stroke of a pen at ANY TIME and without legislative approval. We should start a campaign to write Bush for the rescindment. Does anyone know the EO #?
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 12:28:32 PM EDT
I thought the executive order was signed by Papa Bush in '89. Also, isn't it the case with executive orders that the recinding of them must be approved by Congress. Specifically, here I am thinking of Jerry Ford's executive order banning US government employees from engaging in assasination. Dubyah had Ashcroft (re)interprate this as narrowly applying to assasination of foriegn government officials so that he could authorize the targeting of Al Queda leaders; however, he would have to go to Congress to have the ban lifted so that they could wax Sadam.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 9:22:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TEA:
I thought the executive order was signed by Papa Bush in '89. Also, isn't it the case with executive orders that the recinding of them must be approved by Congress. Specifically, here I am thinking of Jerry Ford's executive order banning US government employees from engaging in assasination. Dubyah had Ashcroft (re)interprate this as narrowly applying to assasination of foriegn government officials so that he could authorize the targeting of Al Queda leaders; however, he would have to go to Congress to have the ban lifted so that they could wax Sadam.



No, congressional approvalis not required.
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