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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:12:35 AM EDT
I made an earlier thread about my garand jamming and went through all the fixes.
New blued clips, cleaned gas plug and gas port, replaced op rod spring, replaced clip latch spring, greased everything to spec with mobil 1 synthetic, made sure the op rod channel on the receiver doesn't have too much grease, can't see where the op rod is rubbing on the stock at all. Still jamming. The Remington Corelokt 150gr is the only ammo I can find locally that is in the peak pressure range. And I need soft points for hunting. I really wanted to take it hog hunting in the morning, but I may have to take my 7.62x39 AR. It's the ammo isn't it? ETA: 
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:37:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Order some PPU Garand specific ammo. I haven't tried it myself but the rest of their line is good stuff.
Hornady also makes Garand specific ammo but it's a bit more expensive. IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 are great powders for M2 Ball spec loads. I use ~49.0 grs of 4064 behind Sierra 150 gr flatbased softpoints. I've been using this for years with good results. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 7:29:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Barring a quick look over to make sure nothing is obviously amiss, the first thing I do when I experience regular malfunctions is try different ammo.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 7:36:30 AM EDT
[#3]
You need a Schuster Garand Gas Plug, opens your world up to more modern ammo.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#4]
what brand spring did you use?
Its possible the piston on op rod is out of spec or gas cyinder or both |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:16:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what brand spring did you use? Its possible the piston on op rod is out of spec or gas cyinder or both The clips are from ammogarand.com and I've tried 4 different clips. 3 blued ammo garand clips and 1 parkerized clip The first time I got it out it'd jam on the first two rounds for sure then it'd be about 50/50. I tried putting the clip in the rifle then loading two rounds into the clip and it cycled fine |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:18:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I made an earlier thread about my garand jamming and went through all the fixes. New blued clips, cleaned gas plug and gas port, replaced op rod spring, replaced clip latch spring, greased everything to spec with mobil 1 synthetic, made sure the op rod channel on the receiver doesn't have too much grease, can't see where the op rod is rubbing on the stock at all. Still jamming. The Remington Corelokt 150gr is the only ammo I can find locally that is in the peak pressure range. And I need soft points for hunting. I really wanted to take it hog hunting in the morning, but I may have to take my 7.62x39 AR. It's the ammo isn't it? That's hard to say. It could be there's not enough gas being channelled to properly cycle the action (bolt & op rod) due to, as M1G said, an out-of-spec piston head or maybe the whole G.C. Also, it would be helpful if you specify what you mean by "jamming" (?) Are rounds actually hanging up on the mouth of the chamber as the bolt pushes them out of the clip? Or, are they just failing to feed smoothly from the clip? Do the spent cases fail to eject after firing? And if it's a failure to feed out of the clip, is it the same round every time (7th rd stoppage), or is it happening on different rds? |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:28:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's hard to say. It could be there's not enough gas being channelled to properly cycle the action (bolt & op rod) due to, as M1G said, an out-of-spec piston head or maybe the whole G.C. Also, it would be helpful if you specify what you mean by "jamming" (?) Are rounds actually hanging up on the mouth of the chamber as the bolt pushes them out of the clip? Or, are they just failing to feed smoothly from the clip? Do the spent cases fail to eject after firing? And if it's a failure to feed out of the clip, is it the same round every time (7th rd stoppage), or is it happening on different rds? |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:30:43 AM EDT
[#8]
If you have done all that and it passes the tilt test and there is no stock touching the op rod there I ant much left but the ammo or the gas piston and the gas cylinder fit. If you have a dial micrometer you can measure the piston for wear. There is a gage to do the same with the bore of the gas cylinder but if you have a selection of .300 win mag casings you might find one wide enough to use as a gage.
I have to leave soon to see my mother in the hospital but someone should have those numbers on good piston size and gas cylinder bore. Off the top of my head I'm thinking .579 is but it's been a year or more since I checked any so I could easily be misremembering the approximate size. ETA- after reading what you have posted before me while I was typing you may still have a clip issue. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:42:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On an 8 round clip it will always jam on the first two. The bolt will either stop on top of the back of the round or it'll just lock back just touching the back of the round but not actually pick up the round Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's hard to say. It could be there's not enough gas being channelled to properly cycle the action (bolt & op rod) due to, as M1G said, an out-of-spec piston head or maybe the whole G.C. Also, it would be helpful if you specify what you mean by "jamming" (?) Are rounds actually hanging up on the mouth of the chamber as the bolt pushes them out of the clip? Or, are they just failing to feed smoothly from the clip? Do the spent cases fail to eject after firing? And if it's a failure to feed out of the clip, is it the same round every time (7th rd stoppage), or is it happening on different rds? For an in-spec gas cylinder, if yours is worn-out and needs replacing, you might check around with the CMP or the various Garand-parts vendors to see who's got NOS. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:59:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Here's the clips I bought
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00657BY6G/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_200_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=C0AVNGPGYCE0C9216NW2 Surely trying 4 different clips, 1 would work. I'll try new ammo and if that doesn't work I'll just call the guy I bought it from. He's an army national guard major and I'm a specialist. He's got a few other garands for sale and I'm sure he'd switch me out. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 9:03:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Well interesting morning hunt. Saw 3 of the biggest pigs I've ever seen. Easily all 200 pounds+ I was getting all excited with dreams of pork tenderloin for days. Couldn't get a shot and was hoping they'd come back around.
A coyote came out after and I had to take him down to protect the fawns. Maybe I'll get a pig this evening |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 10:12:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Your gas system is the culprit right now IMHO. That corelokt should have cycled the action just fine...
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Posted: 8/26/2017 10:18:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Do you have a micrometer to measure the op rod piston? Measure in several different places as it may be out of round.
I can gauge the piston and gas cylinder if you want to ship it to me. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 11:56:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a micrometer to measure the op rod piston? Measure in several different places as it may be out of round. I can gauge the piston and gas cylinder if you want to ship it to me. Here's a better picture of what's happening 
Doesn't seem to be the clip. Just the bolt not wanting to come back out. It'll get stuck here. Slight tap pushes it forward. Also I'm new to garands but when I pull the bolt back it seems to catch on the follower and then when I pull again it'll lock back. I don't know if it supposed to be two steps like that When I lock the bolt back and put the clip in the bolt doesn't budge at all. No garand thumb danger here. Maybe the bolt is hanging up? |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:52:17 PM EDT
[#15]
2 things come to mind. The first, which I doubt is the problem, have you unscrewed the gas cylinder lock screw and looked inside at the barrel gas port to make sure it is visible in the gas cylinder cut out?
2nd, you might try replacing the bullet guide with a new, stamped guide. The section, where the pin goes is called the accelerator, and a worn accelerator often causes the bolt to hang up. Though usually it happens when the bolt is locked back and a loaded en bloc is inserted. When that happens, the bolt should automatically close. Most require a smack, but a new, stamped(post war) may cure the problem. Otherwise, it is something in the gas system that is catching. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 2:30:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Hmmmmmmmm......
Clips COULD be slowing it down, but I do find it odd it would get stuck all the way to the rear like that. Something is hanging it up for it to get stopped there. Either that or maybe you have a leak in the gas system somehow..... I would not suspect the ammo in this case. I am kind of curious as to what type of op rod spring you put in there. And definitely the condition of the Op Rod. But I have no clue how to diagnose the condition of the op rod. Sounds like M1-G could talk you through that. I wonder if his clip latch is funky and somehow making it stick. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 5:06:36 PM EDT
[#17]
When I drop an empty clip into the rifle then lift up on it and manually put two bullets in the clip, push the clip down and drop the bolt, it cycles just fine.
I have no idea what's up with this thing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmmmmmm...... Clips COULD be slowing it down, but I do find it odd it would get stuck all the way to the rear like that. Something is hanging it up for it to get stopped there. Either that or maybe you have a leak in the gas system somehow..... I would not suspect the ammo in this case. I am kind of curious as to what type of op rod spring you put in there. And definitely the condition of the Op Rod. But I have no clue how to diagnose the condition of the op rod. Sounds like M1-G could talk you through that. I wonder if his clip latch is funky and somehow making it stick. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 5:33:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm going to go with a bullet guide and the accelerator. Just a WAG.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 5:52:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Since you haven't measure the oprod piston or the gas cylinder and they are the parts responsible for properly cycling the rifle...
you might want to start there.... |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 7:30:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you haven't measure the oprod piston or the gas cylinder and they are the parts responsible for properly cycling the rifle... you might want to start there.... |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 11:46:04 PM EDT
[#22]
http://myplace.frontier.com/~aleccorapinski/id16.html
M1 Garand General Specifications Operating Rod Specifications Piston Diameter: .5260 to .5253 (under .5250 calls for rejection) Piston Thickness: .190 to .155 Tab/Lug Height: .320 to .317 (under .310 calls for rejection) Tab/Lug Thickness: .100 to .095 Tab/Lug Width: .265 to .235 Maximum Out of Roundness Specification = 0.00035 Tab/Lug Height: .320 to .317 (under .310 calls for rejection) Tab/Lug Thickness: .100 to .095 Tab/Lug Width: .265 to .235 Gas Cylinder Gas Cylinder - Maximum Diameter Specification (main part of cyl.) = 0.530" (field reject @ 0.532") A belted magnum rifle case makes a poor man's gas cylinder gauge. It may be able to start into the back of the gas cylinder, but it shouldn't go in too far. Normally, an out of spec gas system results in "short stroking". That is, the bolt does not go back far enough. In the OP's case, the bolt is going back far enough, but something is catching it, so that it cannot go forward. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 1:00:29 PM EDT
[#23]
If I put in a clip with 2 rounds it cycles perfectly. A clip with 3-8 rounds does the pictured jam.
What would make it cycle with 2 rounds but not more? Also the bolt will not drop forward when inserting a clip of any rounds. Always has to be slapped forward. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 2:51:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also the bolt will not drop forward when inserting a clip of any rounds. Always has to be slapped forward. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 2:51:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I put in a clip with 2 rounds it cycles perfectly. A clip with 3-8 rounds does the pictured jam. What would make it cycle with 2 rounds but not more? Also the bolt will not drop forward when inserting a clip of any rounds. Always has to be slapped forward. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 2:51:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I put in a clip with 2 rounds it cycles perfectly. A clip with 3-8 rounds does the pictured jam. What would make it cycle with 2 rounds but not more? Also the bolt will not drop forward when inserting a clip of any rounds. Always has to be slapped forward. Before running off in different directions swapping parts in and out, I'd strongly recommend you first get the gas cylinder gauged and the op rod's piston head checked for spec. If those check out as in-spec, then you can move on to other possible causes. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 3:57:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having to "slap" the bolt handle forward has nothing to do with it. I have to do that on several of my perfectly functioning M1s. Before running off in different directions swapping parts in and out, I'd strongly recommend you first get the gas cylinder gauged and the op rod's piston head checked for spec. If those check out as in-spec, then you can move on to other possible causes. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 10:10:06 PM EDT
[#28]
The piston head is in spec. I don't have gauges to check the gas cylinder but I can work on it. It cycles fine with just two rounds so I think the gas system is good. But when 3+ rounds are in the clip it messes up, which makes me think it's a mechanical issue?
One issue I found is the bullet guide 
It seems it's a bit small and I'm reading that this would mess up the timing of the op rod catch when a clip is inserted. Which seems to be my issue. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 10:32:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Timing is everything, and not just with Garands.
Fortunately new bullet guides are cheap. Get a couple while you're at it; make sure both are in spec. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 10:43:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Timing is everything, and not just with Garands. Fortunately new bullet guides are cheap. Get a couple while you're at it; make sure both are in spec. http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/688451652 Is there any way to check the accelerator? |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 10:56:34 PM EDT
[#31]
I would also confirm use of genuine military clips and not foreign current production repro clips. An out of spec clip could do this as well. Many of the clips sold today are reproductions. Find at least a couple US military clips and try that. This is the simplest fix and should be tried first
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Posted: 8/27/2017 11:24:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would also confirm use of genuine military clips and not foreign current production repro clips. An out of spec clip could do this as well. Many of the clips sold today are reproductions. Find at least a couple US military clips and try that. This is the simplest fix and should be tried first |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 11:29:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would also confirm use of genuine military clips and not foreign current production repro clips. An out of spec clip could do this as well. Many of the clips sold today are reproductions. Find at least a couple US military clips and try that. This is the simplest fix and should be tried first |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 2:17:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered one of these NOS stamped bullet guides. Didn't think I could go wrong for the price http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/688451652 Is there any way to check the accelerator? As to the accelerator, it's part of the op rod catch; basically the whole op rod catch gets replaced as a single part. It appears that you've narrowed your problem down to a timing issue, for which the bullet guide is the most likely culprit. However, there are a couple other parts that might be adding to the problem. A timing gauge can be useful in sorting this out. The original steel ones run upwards of $120, aluminum repros (like Badger's) are just under $100, and polymer blocks (like the Satern one sold by Brownells and Midway) are about $40, IIRC. A search for "Garand timing gauge" or similar will get you links to the gauges and illustrated instructions for use. Basically, you push the gauge in just like a loaded clip. The bolt must not release before the notch on the side of the gauge goes below the receiver rail, and must release before the gauge shelf bottoms out on the rail. If your rifle fails the timing gauge, replace these parts in the following order: 1) Bullet Guide 2) Follower Rod 3) Follower Arm 4) Operating Rod Catch Like the bullet guide, these are relatively cheap parts, and it's nice to have a few spares. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 3:11:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bullet guide you ordered is the later style with a notch in the side. Those are often used to correct timing problems, because the accelerator cam surface is a few thousandths taller than the earlier versions. Good choice (intentional or not)! As to the accelerator, it's part of the op rod catch; basically the whole op rod catch gets replaced as a single part. It appears that you've narrowed your problem down to a timing issue, for which the bullet guide is the most likely culprit. However, there are a couple other parts that might be adding to the problem. A timing gauge can be useful in sorting this out. The original steel ones run upwards of $120, aluminum repros (like Badger's) are just under $100, and polymer blocks (like the Satern one sold by Brownells and Midway) are about $40, IIRC. A search for "Garand timing gauge" or similar will get you links to the gauges and illustrated instructions for use. Basically, you push the gauge in just like a loaded clip. The bolt must not release before the notch on the side of the gauge goes below the receiver rail, and must release before the gauge shelf bottoms out on the rail. If your rifle fails the timing gauge, replace these parts in the following order: 1) Bullet Guide 2) Follower Rod 3) Follower Arm 4) Operating Rod Catch Like the bullet guide, these are relatively cheap parts, and it's nice to have a few spares. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 4:00:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Wow, I wouldve never known to look at that dimension on the bullet guide. If that's what it is, good catch. But even better said, so much good help around here it's very nice to have out our disposal. I was still thinking the clip latch might be funky.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 4:44:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bullet guide you ordered is the later style with a notch in the side. Those are often used to correct timing problems, because the accelerator cam surface is a few thousandths taller than the earlier versions. Good choice (intentional or not)! As to the accelerator, it's part of the op rod catch; basically the whole op rod catch gets replaced as a single part. It appears that you've narrowed your problem down to a timing issue, for which the bullet guide is the most likely culprit. However, there are a couple other parts that might be adding to the problem. A timing gauge can be useful in sorting this out. The original steel ones run upwards of $120, aluminum repros (like Badger's) are just under $100, and polymer blocks (like the Satern one sold by Brownells and Midway) are about $40, IIRC. A search for "Garand timing gauge" or similar will get you links to the gauges and illustrated instructions for use. Basically, you push the gauge in just like a loaded clip. The bolt must not release before the notch on the side of the gauge goes below the receiver rail, and must release before the gauge shelf bottoms out on the rail. If your rifle fails the timing gauge, replace these parts in the following order: 1) Bullet Guide 2) Follower Rod 3) Follower Arm 4) Operating Rod Catch Like the bullet guide, these are relatively cheap parts, and it's nice to have a few spares. I ordered a NOS late production SA operating rod catch to go with my NOS late production bullet guide http://www.gunbroker.com/item/687435774 I figure at this point after ordering a bullet guide and op rod catch it'd be just about as cheap to order the rest of the parts that deal with timing than to order a timing gauge. If anything I'd have spares. So after new op rod spring, clip latch spring, hammer spring, bullet guide, and op rod catch, if none of those fix it, what would be next? My calipers aren't the best, but the bullet guide was way out of spec. The clip latch seemed a bit small at the measuring points. Should that be the next purchase? I've learned this rifle pretty good and am building a nice lil spare parts kit |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 8:31:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the advice. * * * * * * I've learned this rifle pretty good and am building a nice lil spare parts kit Also, get a new caliper if you need one, and don't hesitate to spend some $$$ for a top tier caliper. Over time it will benefit you when wanting to obtain accurate measures in reloading, as well as checking the specs on gun parts. |
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Posted: 8/28/2017 11:35:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, just be sure those "spare parts" are in-spec spare parts. The best source and supplier is still the CMP. Also, get a new caliper if you need one, and don't hesitate to spend some $$ for a top tier caliper. Over time it will benefit you when wanting to obtain accurate measures in reloading, as well as checking the specs on gun parts. I'm a junior in Mechanical Engineering so I need one for measuring objects to recreate in SolidWorks anyways |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 1:30:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<snip> So after new op rod spring, clip latch spring, hammer spring, bullet guide, and op rod catch, if none of those fix it, what would be next? <snip> Well, that and some actual M2 ball ammo 
But seriously, if and when you get to that point, you've exhausted the common troubleshooting algorithms and you're pretty far into the weeds. If Kuhnhausen can't help you figure out what's going on, I'd consider sending the rifle in to CMP or a similarly well-qualified Garand specialist. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:59:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regardless of whether that fixes it (and I'd wager it will), you need some books: Kuhnhausen's book on USGI .30 gas guns, Kuleck's Garand Assembly Guide, and probably Duff's M1 owner's manual. Well, that and some actual M2 ball ammo
But seriously, if and when you get to that point, you've exhausted the common troubleshooting algorithms and you're pretty far into the weeds. If Kuhnhausen can't help you figure out what's going on, I'd consider sending the rifle in to CMP or a similarly well-qualified Garand specialist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<snip> So after new op rod spring, clip latch spring, hammer spring, bullet guide, and op rod catch, if none of those fix it, what would be next? <snip> Well, that and some actual M2 ball ammo
But seriously, if and when you get to that point, you've exhausted the common troubleshooting algorithms and you're pretty far into the weeds. If Kuhnhausen can't help you figure out what's going on, I'd consider sending the rifle in to CMP or a similarly well-qualified Garand specialist. I picked up some federal M1 garand spec ammo and my bullet guide came in today. I ordered a 1944 SA NOS follower rod that'll be coming in tomorrow. I figured it was $10 well spent. So tomorrow I'll try it with the new bullet guide, springs, M2 ball ammo, and AEC clips. I noticed with the new bullet guide the clips actually click in which they didn't before. The bolt goes forward a bit and a tap sends it home. If it still doesn't work tomorrow I'll try the follower rod. Op rod catch comes in next week |
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Posted: 9/2/2017 3:00:02 PM EDT
[#42]
So, how'd it go?
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Posted: 9/2/2017 6:36:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, how'd it go? Cleaned and greased the new follower rod and put it in. Everything worked perfect. Remington ejected to the 1-2 o' clock. Federal M1 garand spec ejected to the 5 o clock. So I guess the federal is a lil over guessed An out of spec follower rod. Who would've guessed? |
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Posted: 9/2/2017 6:44:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Wow. Glad it was something simple.
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Posted: 9/2/2017 7:02:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Glad it was something simple. ETA: coyote pic in OP shot with at the time single shot garand ETAx2: talked to the original owner about the fix and he wants to send me an original USGI stock for the trouble. That's pretty nice of him |
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Posted: 9/3/2017 9:11:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
* * * Remington ejected to the 1-2 o' clock. Federal M1 garand spec ejected to the 5 o clock. So I guess the federal is a lil over guessed. * * * Assuming you've installed a new and correct op rod spring, fired '06 brass that typically ejects into the 1:00-2:00 area is a sign of more powerful ammo; fired brass ejecting into the 5:00 area is a sign of less powerful ammo, which is likely the case with Federal's "Garand-Safe" 150gn FMJ load. Not all so-called Garand-Safe or Garand-spec 30.06 is loaded the same. If you don't reload, you might want to try some of the other brands, like the PPU M1-Safe ammo. I found it to be very accurate not only in a couple of my SG M1s, but my 1903A4 sniper really liked it. Just FYI, ... |
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Posted: 9/3/2017 2:58:02 PM EDT
[#47]
I'll have to get an adjustable gas plug. The Remington 150gr sells for $16.50 in my area and does well on pigs.
It's kind of hard to beat |
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Posted: 9/4/2017 1:33:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Actually the way to go long term is to reload garand spec ammo yourself! A couple hundred cases will last a long time ( the garand is not hard on brass and I have cases that have been reloaded 20+ times) and setting up to load with a simple single stage press set up will cost under $150.
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Posted: 9/4/2017 5:52:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually the way to go long term is to reload garand spec ammo yourself! A couple hundred cases will last a long time ( the garand is not hard on brass and I have cases that have been reloaded 20+ times) and setting up to load with a simple single stage press set up will cost under $150. I think I'll order a ported gas plug to safely shoot the Remington 150gr corelokts for the mean time |
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