Armory Sponsor
Posted: 8/5/2014 8:24:34 AM EDT
|
Effective immediately, service, field, and special grades are luck of the draw as far as received goes. There is no specifying HRA or SA. Prices have also increased on service and field grade rifles.
Must be getting short 
|
|
Quoted:
I would love a m1 from cmp. I wouldn't care who built the receiver . My only consern would be what kind of condition or grade it's in. I would like to shoot it . Better order now! I wanted a shooter so I ordered a CMP special. Brand new barrel and reparkerized finish. |
|
They are not really short yet. Quite a bunch of rifles still in crates. They just have no way of knowing which makers they will pull out of the crates and of what grades. Instead of trying to give everyone exactly what they want they are trying to catch up on the backlog by taking the choices away for now. According to that email they have a backlog of 1800 orders for HRA alone. If they can ever get caught up again they may reinstate choices for particular makers between SA and HRA.
|
|
You are getting your organizations confused. The old DCM was more a service organization. It was government operated - we could only obtain one rifle a lifetime thru the DCM.
The legislation that formed the CMP formed it as a self sustaining non-government entity (a profit center if you prefer). It doesn't receive government money, it operates on the revenue it generates. So now we can get 12 rifles a year instead of one a life time. Are the prices higher - yes. Has the core purpose changed - to provide civiliam marksmanship activities, and the rifles and ammunition to support them - No. Only they do it on a MUCH larger scale than before. But what you get for the money is still way bellow what you will find anywhere else. Can you go to any gunshow and buy 200 rounds of HXP for $118? Can you buy a WW2 Springfield M1 with the original barrel in good condition at any gunshow for $600? No you can't. The CMP is still a very good thing. Look at M1 Carbines. Only a few years ago you could get them from the CMP for $500. The CMP ran out, now you are usually in the $700-800 range for a mixmaster anywhere else. The same will happen to Garands. You think $595 for a field grade and $695 for a service grade is high? Wait a few years till the CMP doesn't have them anymore. Then you will be paying double that for a rifle of uknown provenance that was most assuredly NOT inspected and approved by a CMP armorer. Earl Quoted:
CMP over time has moved toward a profit center and not a service... It was a very good thing years ago. |
|
Oh man...that's my only "gripe"...Alabama gets all the fun. I wish there were a CMP store and/or range within reasonable driving distance to North Texas.
|
| The luck of the draw only applies to Service grades and Field grades and you can still request one or the other when you order. If they have it, they will honor your request. They had not even been offering field grades for sale until that e-mail went out, so that is a good thing. The whole thing has nothing to do with the Specials, and I bet they made the decision because most people they contacted about switching, did in fact indicate they would rather switch manufacturer than wait even longer for the brand rifle they originally ordered. So it isn't as if they just pulled that idea out of their ass. |
|
Quoted:
Garand Collector Association Quoted:
Quoted:
What is the easiest club to join to be eligible to buy from them? Garand Collector Association Made hot. $25/year, and well worth it: GCA |
|
Quoted:
The luck of the draw only applies to Service grades and Field grades and you can still request one or the other when you order. If they have it, they will honor your request. They had not even been offering field grades for sale until that e-mail went out, so that is a good thing. The whole thing has nothing to do with the Specials, and I bet they made the decision because most people they contacted about switching, did in fact indicate they would rather switch manufacturer than wait even longer for the brand rifle they originally ordered. So it isn't as if they just pulled that idea out of their ass. Visit the sales page. Specials are the same way. "M1 Garand, CMP Special (.30-06) M1 Garand, Luck of the draw for Springfield or Harrington & Richardson manufacturer. Orders will be filled with next available Special grade rifle in .30-06." |
|
Quoted:
"The other major reason for the change is that most of our customers are only concerned with the grade of the rifle and not the manufacturer." That doesn't sound right to me... maybe it's true, not calling them liars or anything... just doesn't sound right. I'd believe that as far as people would want condition over make all other things being equal. That said I think it is a smaller subset of folks that most certainly want a WWII era receiver. So the numbers aren't wrong shooters>collectors. So strictly I think they're wrong, I think due to the use of the word Only. "Primarily" would have been a better fit. Makes a lot of sense for the specials, they're post army CMP overhauls anyhow. They're gussied up shooters. maybe I can get an IHC service grade at Springfield SG price! (yea right, those are going to the auctions or held for another batch, they're a cash cow) |
|
Quoted:
Ok I joined gca . How long do I have to wait before I put my order in ? As long as you meet all the other requirements send in your order tomorrow, just put GCA for your organization on the form and don't worry about not having the card yet, you could always print out the email your got from GCA after joining and include it. GCA shares their member list with the CMP so by the time your order gets there and is put into the system they should have you on the GCA list. |
|
Quoted:
Visit the sales page. Specials are the same way. "M1 Garand, CMP Special (.30-06) M1 Garand, Luck of the draw for Springfield or Harrington & Richardson manufacturer. Orders will be filled with next available Special grade rifle in .30-06." Quoted:
Quoted:
The luck of the draw only applies to Service grades and Field grades and you can still request one or the other when you order. If they have it, they will honor your request. They had not even been offering field grades for sale until that e-mail went out, so that is a good thing. The whole thing has nothing to do with the Specials, and I bet they made the decision because most people they contacted about switching, did in fact indicate they would rather switch manufacturer than wait even longer for the brand rifle they originally ordered. So it isn't as if they just pulled that idea out of their ass. Visit the sales page. Specials are the same way. "M1 Garand, CMP Special (.30-06) M1 Garand, Luck of the draw for Springfield or Harrington & Richardson manufacturer. Orders will be filled with next available Special grade rifle in .30-06." That was not in the original e-mail sent out or forum post made by Orest. I read through all the pages on the forum post, and I found an obscure mention by Orest that the Specials are now also luck of the draw. |
|
Quoted:
It should not matter who made the receiver with a Special, they are rebuilds and are essentially parts guns. Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. |
|
Quoted:
Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. Quoted:
Quoted:
It should not matter who made the receiver with a Special, they are rebuilds and are essentially parts guns. Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. +1. It's very rare you get a correct rifle unless you pay for it. Nearly all of them were refinished and are not even close to original, or even time frame correct. Lots of early receivers have new style op rods, trigger groups, barrels, replacement stocks, etc. Only difference is that the specials are re finished and have a brand new barrel/stock. I have an HRA Special with an early 1943 trigger group. |
|
I started buying CMP guns about 6 years ago or so (and pretty much stopped 2 years ago). I went through a phase where I wanted things to be original. It wears off or at least it did for me. 97% of the guns have been rebuilt and refinished. I think it's interesting to examine all the parts and figure out where they come from. I find it fascinating in a way that it's known which trigger guards are which by obscure differences in cut, et cet. Kind of cool that people can answer these questions as far as knowledge/history being preserved.
In the end it doesn't matter, uncle sam just put a working part in when something needed it, in spec is in spec. I can live with that although I was not above switching major parts like trigger housings to match brands. Even bolts (if they headspace). |
|
Quoted:
Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. Quoted:
Quoted:
It should not matter who made the receiver with a Special, they are rebuilds and are essentially parts guns. Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. Specifying SA, HR, IHC, Win, would be largely pointless on anything other than a collector grade rifle, and those are a) auctioned and b) laughable compared to what we considered collectable rifles back in the DCM day. What CMP has now are quite literally the bottom of the barrel and are best used as refinished parts guns that are at least serviceable and attractive, representing the type as a whole a lot better than a worn, loose, pitted and dinged rifle that no armorer would have even considered issuing. A special will set you back a grand but they are a better buy overall than service or field grade for a shooter. Unfortunately, CMP is a lot less shooter and marksmanship focused that was DCM when it comes to their sales policies. Adopting a position of no more hand picking actually starts moving them back in the right direction. |
|
Quoted:
That was my point, field, service or special, they are all basically parts guns, but the specials are even more so given the new barrels and stocks. Specifying SA, HR, IHC, Win, would be largely pointless on anything other than a collector grade rifle, and those are a) auctioned and b) laughable compared to what we considered collectable rifles back in the DCM day. What CMP has now are quite literally the bottom of the barrel and are best used as refinished parts guns that are at least serviceable and attractive, representing the type as a whole a lot better than a worn, loose, pitted and dinged rifle that no armorer would have even considered issuing. A special will set you back a grand but they are a better buy overall than service or field grade for a shooter. Unfortunately, CMP is a lot less shooter and marksmanship focused that was DCM when it comes to their sales policies. Adopting a position of no more hand picking actually starts moving them back in the right direction. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It should not matter who made the receiver with a Special, they are rebuilds and are essentially parts guns. Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. Specifying SA, HR, IHC, Win, would be largely pointless on anything other than a collector grade rifle, and those are a) auctioned and b) laughable compared to what we considered collectable rifles back in the DCM day. What CMP has now are quite literally the bottom of the barrel and are best used as refinished parts guns that are at least serviceable and attractive, representing the type as a whole a lot better than a worn, loose, pitted and dinged rifle that no armorer would have even considered issuing. A special will set you back a grand but they are a better buy overall than service or field grade for a shooter. Unfortunately, CMP is a lot less shooter and marksmanship focused that was DCM when it comes to their sales policies. Adopting a position of no more hand picking actually starts moving them back in the right direction. Have you seen some of the rifles people are showing on the CMP forum? Many of them are pretty damn nice. Many of the recent IHC deliveries have been nearly correct and nearly new condition. |
|
Quoted:
That was my point, field, service or special, they are all basically parts guns, but the specials are even more so given the new barrels and stocks. Specifying SA, HR, IHC, Win, would be largely pointless on anything other than a collector grade rifle, and those are a) auctioned and b) laughable compared to what we considered collectable rifles back in the DCM day. What CMP has now are quite literally the bottom of the barrel and are best used as refinished parts guns that are at least serviceable and attractive, representing the type as a whole a lot better than a worn, loose, pitted and dinged rifle that no armorer would have even considered issuing. A special will set you back a grand but they are a better buy overall than service or field grade for a shooter. Unfortunately, CMP is a lot less shooter and marksmanship focused that was DCM when it comes to their sales policies. Adopting a position of no more hand picking actually starts moving them back in the right direction. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It should not matter who made the receiver with a Special, they are rebuilds and are essentially parts guns. Well, according to this new policy. It should not matter with the service or field grades either. Unless you are buying a collector or correct model, the majority of their rifles are mixmasters, so I don't see what that statement lends to the conversation. Specifying SA, HR, IHC, Win, would be largely pointless on anything other than a collector grade rifle, and those are a) auctioned and b) laughable compared to what we considered collectable rifles back in the DCM day. What CMP has now are quite literally the bottom of the barrel and are best used as refinished parts guns that are at least serviceable and attractive, representing the type as a whole a lot better than a worn, loose, pitted and dinged rifle that no armorer would have even considered issuing. A special will set you back a grand but they are a better buy overall than service or field grade for a shooter. Unfortunately, CMP is a lot less shooter and marksmanship focused that was DCM when it comes to their sales policies. Adopting a position of no more hand picking actually starts moving them back in the right direction. This post gets you  out of
You must not see the stuff showing up from the CMP lately. A lot of the service grades are in excellent shape. There have been some Field grades that even had very little wear/pitting. I don't even know what you mean by the specials being parts guns. They're ALL parts guns. The only difference between a service grade and a special is the new barrel and refinished parts (which is exactly what you mentioned people should do later in your post?). Some SGs come with new walnut stocks just like the specials. I love my Special  EXCELLENT shooter.
|
|
Quoted:
Oh man...that's my only "gripe"...Alabama gets all the fun. I wish there were a CMP store and/or range within reasonable driving distance to North Texas. Quoted:
Oh man...that's my only "gripe"...Alabama gets all the fun. I wish there were a CMP store and/or range within reasonable driving distance to North Texas. 13 hour drive from Houston. Drive with a friend. Take turns driving. Leave Tuesday night. Arrive Wednesday morning. Hand gauge 100 rifles. Take home the best field grade for low $. Drive back home. Profit! I'd do it all over again if it meant I didn't get a worn out rifle and a case of buyer's remorse. I got the rifle just in time to be a part of this. 
|
| Frankly, I don't give a damn if it's stamped by either SA or HRA so I went ahead and emailed them to send me whatever nice example comes up first for my order. Way I see it they're bound to have parts from both anyways. Bummer I didn't order 2 at the lower pricepoint though, had even mulled over sending an order in for another in case I didn't care for the first about a week ago. Oh well, fingers crossed it's a decent looking shooter. |
|
Quoted:
I don't even know what you mean by the specials being parts guns. They're ALL parts guns. The only difference between a service grade and a special is the new barrel and refinished parts (which is exactly what you mentioned people should do later in your post?). Some SGs come with new walnut stocks just like the specials. I love my Special EXCELLENT shooter.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14535096258_342253fa8b_h.jpg |
|
Quoted:
"The other major reason for the change is that most of our customers are only concerned with the grade of the rifle and not the manufacturer." That doesn't sound right to me... maybe it's true, not calling them liars or anything... just doesn't sound right. This. If you spend any time on the CMP forums you'll notice a large number of regular posters who collect Garands. They prefer the option to choose what they'll get. Yes, the rifles are mix masters, but that has been universally accepted by those purchasing Service or Field Grades. They are what they are. If you want a "correct" rifle you can visit the CMP auctions. I'm sure you'll find something..... I've gotten more than one rifle that was two or three easily obtainable parts away from being a Correct Grade or a Service Grade Special. Regardless, I leave mine as is. For now. The CMP's mission says nothing about helping Garand aficionados build their collections, but that, plus quality, cost and pedigree, are the reasons a lot of guys buy their rifles. There are collectors who only want HRAs, other guys want one of each US manufacturer, some guys want a pre-war, a war-time, and a post-war production Springfield, etc. Again, I know this isn't really the CMP's concern, but the way they've offered these rifles for many years has sort of encouraged this line of thinking. I've read where several posters have said the inability to choose manufacturer and the cost increase has put an end to their Garand buying from the CMP. Their choice. I disagree, and will continue to support the CMP and buy their Garands. In fact I ordered 2 Field Grades today and look forward to what I'll get. That being said..... I placed an order for 2 HRAs in May. On 8/5 the price increase and combining of manufacturers was announced. The CMP stated that they had an 1,800 rifle backlog on HRAs. They gave those of us with orders in the system the option to request a change to Springfield. I took them up on their offer. I'd rather have Springfields at this point, and would have ordered Springfields had they been available at the time I placed my order. YMMV |
|
Quoted:
That's exactly what I said. You folks are arguing for the sake of arguing. Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know what you mean by the specials being parts guns. They're ALL parts guns. The only difference between a service grade and a special is the new barrel and refinished parts (which is exactly what you mentioned people should do later in your post?). Some SGs come with new walnut stocks just like the specials. I love my Special EXCELLENT shooter.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14535096258_342253fa8b_h.jpg Nobody is arguing with you. The absurdity of your comment was simply being pointed out. You said the Specials are parts guns, so it doesn't matter what manufacturer you get. Specials are not parts guns, they are mixmasters, just like most of the other grades. A parts gun is one that is shit and only worth parting out for pieces. If you are going to claim the Specials manufacturer doesn't matter on that basis, it also doesn't matter for the others. |
|
Quoted:
Nobody is arguing with you. The absurdity of your comment was simply being pointed out. You said the Specials are parts guns, so it doesn't matter what manufacturer you get. Specials are not parts guns, they are mixmasters, just like most of the other grades. A parts gun is one that is shit and only worth parting out for pieces. If you are going to claim the Specials manufacturer doesn't matter on that basis, it also doesn't matter for the others. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know what you mean by the specials being parts guns. They're ALL parts guns. The only difference between a service grade and a special is the new barrel and refinished parts (which is exactly what you mentioned people should do later in your post?). Some SGs come with new walnut stocks just like the specials. I love my Special EXCELLENT shooter.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14535096258_342253fa8b_h.jpg Nobody is arguing with you. The absurdity of your comment was simply being pointed out. You said the Specials are parts guns, so it doesn't matter what manufacturer you get. Specials are not parts guns, they are mixmasters, just like most of the other grades. A parts gun is one that is shit and only worth parting out for pieces. If you are going to claim the Specials manufacturer doesn't matter on that basis, it also doesn't matter for the others. Most M1 Garands available now have seen one or two arsenal rebuilds before CMP got them and then may have had a couple more replacement parts installed there there. But it's still essentially the same rifle that left the factory with some earlier or later non correct parts. Call it what ever you want. A special however will by definition end up with a new barrel and a new stock, further reducing the percentage of parts and major components that are factory original to the point where any comparison is pretty meaningless, and making it basically impossible to re-assemble a correct weapon from it. |
|
Quoted:
I stand corrected - you are arguing about the semantics of parts guns versus mix masters. Most M1 Garands available now have seen one or two arsenal rebuilds before CMP got them and then may have had a couple more replacement parts installed there there. But it's still essentially the same rifle that left the factory with some earlier or later non correct parts. Call it what ever you want. A special however will by definition end up with a new barrel and a new stock, further reducing the percentage of parts and major components that are factory original to the point where any comparison is pretty meaningless, and making it basically impossible to re-assemble a correct weapon from it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know what you mean by the specials being parts guns. They're ALL parts guns. The only difference between a service grade and a special is the new barrel and refinished parts (which is exactly what you mentioned people should do later in your post?). Some SGs come with new walnut stocks just like the specials. I love my Special EXCELLENT shooter.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14535096258_342253fa8b_h.jpg Nobody is arguing with you. The absurdity of your comment was simply being pointed out. You said the Specials are parts guns, so it doesn't matter what manufacturer you get. Specials are not parts guns, they are mixmasters, just like most of the other grades. A parts gun is one that is shit and only worth parting out for pieces. If you are going to claim the Specials manufacturer doesn't matter on that basis, it also doesn't matter for the others. Most M1 Garands available now have seen one or two arsenal rebuilds before CMP got them and then may have had a couple more replacement parts installed there there. But it's still essentially the same rifle that left the factory with some earlier or later non correct parts. Call it what ever you want. A special however will by definition end up with a new barrel and a new stock, further reducing the percentage of parts and major components that are factory original to the point where any comparison is pretty meaningless, and making it basically impossible to re-assemble a correct weapon from it. Who cares? If someone wanted a correct firearm, they would buy a correct firearm, or scour alternative means to find the correct parts they want. Perhaps they would buy their 12 gun limit at the CMP scrounging the parts they want, and selling off the rest. Not everyone wants a correct Garand. So whether they get a mixmaster field, service, or special grades is completely irrelevant. |
|
Quoted:
You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. |
|
Quoted:
AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. It was obsolete in 1936? It was the most advanced infantry rifle of its time. And quit trolling....this ain't GD. |
|
Quoted:
AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. The Garand is recognized by military historians as having changed world history. These are surplus rifles that any knowledgeable firearms enthusiast should be proud to own, if not simply learn about at a minimum. It isn't always about stocking up on mall ninja bullshit from AIM and whacking off to your "superior" collection which you probably don't even know how to use. |
|
Quoted:
AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. Yeah, it was obsolete when the other standard issue battle rifles were bolt action with a 5 round internal magazine
Anything over 50 yards away I'd take my Garand over any of my AR15s. |
|
Quoted:
AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. It would be easier if you'd just ask for a little schooling on the Garand and the history and evolution of the battle rifle in the 20th century, rather than just talking and abolishing any doubt about your limited knowledge on the subject. ---- From the US perspective, the Krag-Jorgensen designed Springfield produced Model 1892 through Model 1899 rifles and carbines were our introduction to a smokeless powder cartridge firing small caliber service rifle. However the design's short comings were graphically pointed out to us in Cuba by much more effective M1893 Spanish Mausers, where the faster loading potential of the stripper clip was a major advantage over the clumsy loose round, side loading Krag. The 7x57 Mauser round also had superior ballistics to our 220 gr round nosed round. And when we tried to rectify the strength limitations of the Krag receiver became evident with extensive problems with receiver cracks. The end result was rapid replacement buy the 1903 Springfield, in first the .30-03 cartridge and 3 years later with the better .30-06 cartridge. The rifle was a knock off of the German Mauser 98 - the the extent that we had to pay royalties - with some detail changes (coned breech, magazine cut off, cocking knob, etc. The British already had the Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) in .303 British, which was roughly comparable to the .30-40 Krag, but transitioned much better than the M1892-99 Krag rifles to spitzer pointed higher velocity service rounds following the German move in that direction. None the less, the British were not entirely happy with the .303 round and the P13 Enfield was developed by the British as part of a pre-WWI plan to switch to a higher velocity .276 caliber round (land diameter, groove diameter was .284", i.e. 7mm). It was also based on the Mauser design. Those plans however were put on the back burner with WWI on the horizon and the basic P13 design was modified to utilize the older .303 round as the "P14" to augment SMLEs in WWI to avoid having 2 separate battle rifle calibers in the supply system in time of war. Similarly, we augmented the 1903A1 in WWI with the M1917 Enfield, a .30-06 variant of the British P14 Enfield and in fact more P17s saw action in US service in WWI than did the '03 Springfield. The P17 was long, heavy and clumsy to handle but was accurate, reliable, and available in large numbers from WInchester, Remington and Eddystone who had already tooled up to meet British contracts. In terms of fire power however, the 1903 and P17, and M98 were still all outclassed by the SMLE, a point that became evident during WWI. The SMLE had a rear locking lug bolt with very slick bolt travel and a cock on closing design that, while not as strong as the mauser based actions, allowed for much smoother and faster cycling of the action. Combined with a 10 round box magazine that could be a) topped off with a single bullet, fully loaded from two 5 round stripper clips, or replaced with another full box magazine, it resulted in a battle rifle with a much greater rate of fire than the P17, 1903 or M98. After WWI, the British dropped plans to adopt a .276 caliber round, due to huge stocks of .303 on hand, and a desire to reduce military spending overall after the "war to end all wars". The US however began development of a new .276 caliber round as well as a new semi-automatic battle rifle beginning in 1922. It did not enter service until 1936, and when it did, it did so in .30-06, but it was at the time, a great advance in fire power over 1903, M98 and SMLE, capable of delivering 8 rounds in very rapid fire, and being quickly reloaded. It was in fact revolutionary and changed the infantry tactics we used on the battle field, using platoon and company leave machine guns such as the M1919 machine gun and the squad level BAR to pin the enemy in place, while rapid, aimed fire from the infantryman firing Garands broke the enemy opposition down. That tactical employment is essentially the same thing in use today with the M4 and M249. The Germans followed suit with the G43, and then jumped beyond that with the 7.92x33mm Kurz round in the Stg 44, recognizing that most engagements occurred at 100 yards or less and that a rifle with select fire capability with an intermediate round that was controllable in full auto fire was preferable to a full scale battle rifle round. Post war, the British moved in that direction with a .280 caliber intermediate round in the FAL, and the slightly modified .280/30 to try to appease the US, but we still resisted, wanting both a .30-06 class round, and a round that could be made on existing .30-06 tooling and machinery. The end result was the 7.62x51 NATO, which was, along with the M14, in fact obsolete the day it as issued and was fairly quickly replaced by the M16 shooting the intermediate 5.56x45mm round. However, even after the Garand passed out of service the Italians both modified Garands and produced new rifles to a 20 round box magazine standard as the BM-59 and later as the BM-62. Those were also excellent rifles and were preferred by many professional soldiers into the 1970's. In conclusion, the M1 Garand, was ground breaking, not obsolete when it was issued, and was state of the art until the end of WWII. |
|
Quoted:
AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. The Garand has better sights than all three of those and as for the rest of your post, I'll circular file that where it should be. |
|
Quoted:
The Garand has better sights than all three of those and as for the rest of your post, I'll circular file that where it should be. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. The Garand has better sights than all three of those and as for the rest of your post, I'll circular file that where it should be. No one uses the garand anymore do they? try aiming those NM sights while suppressed by the Kalash. Your gun is garbage. |
|
Quoted: No one uses the garand anymore do they? try aiming those NM sights while suppressed by the Kalash. Your gun is garbage. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: expensive, obsolete rifles. You will never be out-gunned if you have a Garand. AK,FAL, G3 etc outgun the garand. It was obsolete the day it was issued, its not like box magazines were new but instead they used the retarded enbloc that is a major pita to top off.. Total piece of shit that is only popular with old fudds that want to be politically correct. The Garand has better sights than all three of those and as for the rest of your post, I'll circular file that where it should be. No one uses the garand anymore do they? try aiming those NM sights while suppressed by the Kalash. Your gun is garbage. The ak has to get inside 400 to be an effective suppressive fire rifle...meanwhile at 700yds I'm making center mass hits all day long with an M1.... |
|
Quoted:
No one uses the garand anymore do they? try aiming those NM sights while suppressed by the Kalash. Your gun is garbage. Ironically enough, WWII era soldiers did a pretty fair job of aimed fire with the Garand while being suppressed by MG 34s and MG 42s. They were both a whole lot nastier than an AK-47 and put out a much greater volume of sustained fire to a much greater effective range. If you like we can meet at the 600 yard line and see who can put rounds on target more effectively.
|
Armory Sponsor