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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Modernized M1 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/7/2011 7:24:17 PM EDT
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Does anybody know where the thread is about the guy who modernized an M1 Garand, shortened the barrel, modern stock, etc.
I dont remember if it was here or GD but Im sure someone knows where it is. Thanks. |
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hey man, what ever gives you a chubby Im only interested because Id love to get an M1a, but the price difference between an M1a and an M1 is pretty large I think that by the time you spent all the money and effort to modify a Garand, you could have bought an M1A, and then some. Save for the M1A. You won't be sorry. My .02 |
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I have not (and will not) shortened the barrel on an M1 Garand, or make it a .308.
But I have put my shooter M1 in a synthetic stock (cheap $50 Ramline) and then camoflaged the stock/handguards with cheap krylon paint. I put an Ameaga ranges lower handguard scope mount (replaces the lower handguard) on it and cheap 2X8 pistol scope on it with Warne QD rings. I like it. Everyone who handles or shoots it likes it. It allows me to shoot the rifle (well) with eye sight that just doesn't cut it with iron sights anymore. It makes a rifle that I normally couldn't use/shoot a handy and fun rifle to shoot. Its my rifle. I really don't care if anyone else likes it or not. The way it shoots makes it worth it to me. I will never have to complain that I scratched/cracked my wood stock out at the range. I'll never have to complain my group moved because the stock absorbed moisture/rain. |
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I have built two "Tanker" style Garands, from woodless Rack Grade Garands from the CMP that had totally shot out barrels. One in 308 and one in 30-06. Everyone who has shot my 308 loves the gun. I would make another if I could find a kit. Remember, converting to a Tanker style involves no permanant alteration to the gun, and it can be restored to original in a very short time.
PAV56C, if you want a shortened M14 stlye, get a Chinese made Polytech/Norinco and put a shorter barrel on. Much cheaper than buying a factory made Springfield version. You can get used barrels at a very good price, and they will be close to new. Do a bolt conversion at the same time. PM me and I will send you a link to someone who may have some barrels. |
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Can't see why anyone would want to fuck with perfection, it was perfect for what it was, at the time it appeared. Because what was perfect 75 years ago isn't perfect today. Nostalgic, yes. Now you did it. I'm going to make baby Jesus cry. May your eyes bleed at this. 
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Can't see why anyone would want to fuck with perfection, it was perfect for what it was, at the time it appeared. Well, one man's poison is another man's meat. As my "Tanker" sits now: 
But, at various times it has worn different different dresses. Top one is mine(308), bottom is my brothers(30-06). Though I do have a folding stock like my brother's that I switch out to from time to time. 
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to all those who would butcher a Garand, why not just buy an M14? Why butcher an artifact? The improvement was the M14. I hardly consider a Garand an "artifact". There are millions of them though the one I just had built was a almost completely original 1941 WRA complete with flush nut sight and no trap stock. I was able to sell the parts for a Very good amount and fund the project with money to spare. Why? Because I am from CA with a 10 round limit. I can load up 1,000 rounds in enblocs and not worry about springs. I can reload a enbloc faster than a mag and I like the fact that my main shtf rifle is 70 years old. I had it mini G'ed in 308 with a Ultimak rail,smith muzzle brake, synthetic stock, Holbrook device, adjustable gas plug and I am running a burris scout scope with a fastfire on top as a back up. It is basically a Socom 16 with enblocs. Internet is slow so I don't think I can upload a pic. |
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to all those who would butcher a Garand, why not just buy an M14? Why butcher an artifact? The improvement was the M14. Seriously?  Some of you Garand purists crack me up.
As someone already pointed out, there were over 6 million made, so rarity is hardly an issue here. (Obvious exceptions for the primo original versions found every now and then.) Besides, what would you even consider "butchered" on the rifle? The muzzle on mine had been wallowed out by some Greek conscript and his steel cleaning rod. Other than that, the bore was primo. Cutting it back made the most economic sense, and in fact allowed the original barrel to service on. I suppose an argument could be made that I preserved history! 
The only part of value on my rifle that was permanently modified was the op rod, so let's not turn this into a issue about destroying history. The argument for that point is this thin at best. |
Somebody rang? I can give you the thread link, but there is a lot of butthurt that went on. I really like mine. A lot. Very pointable, and the battlecomp really brings the muzzle rise down to almost nil. I need to work on the trigger to shorten the reset as much as possible. Probably add a sling and maybe nix the stock pouch. Maybe hydrodip the stock in multi-cam eventually. When I grow up I'm picking up a T-1 and a Burris scout to play with. I might try out a Noveske KX3 and see if it works better than the battlecomp. If I win the lottery any time soon, this rifle will get very very quiet. 
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| I would skip the T-1 and save a few dollars with H-1. The H-1 will co-witness with your irons on the setup you are running. I doubt many civilians have a use for the night vision settings. My issue M4 has an Aimpoint with night vision settings and we still don't use it since we have Lasers. |
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Well, as I stated earlier, mine was made from a woodless rack grade Danish Garand I recevied from the CMP. Rack grades are those with not so good barrels, and mine was good for one thing, and one thing only..................use as a tomato stake. It litterally swallowed by TE/MW gauge to the tune of 7+, probably 8+. Gauge only goes up to 7.
I rebuilt it to something a bit diffrent, and refinished it, as well as putting decent looking wood on it. I have an oprod for it, so if I decide that I absolutely have to have another WW2 Garand to go with my other 3 Garands(WW2 SA, Post War HRA and IHC and my #1 son's HRA and my #2 son's WW2 SA that was also a rack grade that I rebuilt), then all I have to do is get a new Criterion barrel from the CMP, screw it on, and ream the chamber. A simple matter of about 30 minutes worth of work. |
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Well, as I stated earlier, mine was made from a woodless rack grade Danish Garand I recevied from the CMP. Rack grades are those with not so good barrels, and mine was good for one thing, and one thing only..................use as a tomato stake. It litterally swallowed by TE/MW gauge to the tune of 7+, probably 8+. Gauge only goes up to 7. I rebuilt it to something a bit diffrent, and refinished it, as well as putting decent looking wood on it. I have an oprod for it, so if I decide that I absolutely have to have another WW2 Garand to go with my other 3 Garands(WW2 SA, Post War HRA and IHC and my #1 son's HRA and my #2 son's WW2 SA that was also a rack grade that I rebuilt), then all I have to do is get a new Criterion barrel from the CMP, screw it on, and ream the chamber. A simple matter of about 30 minutes worth of work. Mine was a field grade, but had finish issues, and a marginal, but serviceable barrel. I concur on the simplicity of converting to original configuration. As far as mine goes, it was in good shape, but it seemed like wherever/whoever we lent it to had been kind of complacent with a minimal amount of maintenance. Kind of depressing considering it was a rifle built for Americans by Americans, to defend against Communist incursion, and to safeguard the American way. Supposedly, Harrington and Richardson (my rifle is an HRA) had a sign over the entrance of their plant during the Korean War, something to the effect of, "Remember, build this rifle as if it were your son's rifle", or something similar. Anyway, I could have redone the stock and reparked it and called it good. I will do that one day with other CMP rifles. But I didn't feel bad taking something forged with the express purpose of defending American liberty, and then adapting it to continue that role, should circumstances dictate, in my home. Oh well. |
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I would skip the T-1 and save a few dollars with H-1. The H-1 will co-witness with your irons on the setup you are running. I doubt many civilians have a use for the night vision settings. My issue M4 has an Aimpoint with night vision settings and we still don't use it since we have Lasers. Yeah, I think I meant H-1, whichever was cheaper.  I think LaRue makes an ultra low mount that should get it really close to cowitness like you are talking about.
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion."
One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." |
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. |
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. Agreed. If seen a couple of barrels on GunBroker that were converted that way. TEs of 4 and 5, but basicallly new Muzzles. But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. |
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. Agreed. If seen a couple of barrels on GunBroker that were converted that way. TEs of 4 and 5, but basicallly new Muzzles. But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. Yeah, with the barreled receiver, your best bet is to take that barrel, see if sarco still has the kits, then send the lot to Tim Shufflin. He can go as short as you want, likely. And if you wanted to augment with the BM 59 parts, he'd probably be the best one to go to. Turnaround is crazy, like a week. |
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. Agreed. If seen a couple of barrels on GunBroker that were converted that way. TEs of 4 and 5, but basicallly new Muzzles. But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. Yeah, with the barreled receiver, your best bet is to take that barrel, see if sarco still has the kits, then send the lot to Tim Shufflin. He can go as short as you want, likely. And if you wanted to augment with the BM 59 parts, he'd probably be the best one to go to. Turnaround is crazy, like a week. I think I was unclear. I already have an 18" barrel in good condition, unmounted. I've already been in touch with Tim - if I send him the BR with the bad barrel, a parts kit I have, and my short good barrel, a conversion is about $300. My question was about the leftover full length barrel. I have a Remington 580 I want to convert to 7.62x25 and need a blank. The bore diameter and twist of the Garand barrel is correct, and there's plenty of length to be able to cut off the chamber and muzzle. The question I was asking was if, typically, that length is in OK shape. Of course I won't really know until I get into it, but it might be a way to save a few bucks. |
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But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. BM62 cylinder you will also need the cylinder lock or 62 muzzle break the op rod becomes perfectly straight 
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. Agreed. If seen a couple of barrels on GunBroker that were converted that way. TEs of 4 and 5, but basicallly new Muzzles. But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. Yeah, with the barreled receiver, your best bet is to take that barrel, see if sarco still has the kits, then send the lot to Tim Shufflin. He can go as short as you want, likely. And if you wanted to augment with the BM 59 parts, he'd probably be the best one to go to. Turnaround is crazy, like a week. I think I was unclear. I already have an 18" barrel in good condition, unmounted. I've already been in touch with Tim - if I send him the BR with the bad barrel, a parts kit I have, and my short good barrel, a conversion is about $300. My question was about the leftover full length barrel. I have a Remington 580 I want to convert to 7.62x25 and need a blank. The bore diameter and twist of the Garand barrel is correct, and there's plenty of length to be able to cut off the chamber and muzzle. The question I was asking was if, typically, that length is in OK shape. Of course I won't really know until I get into it, but it might be a way to save a few bucks. Ok, I see. Yeah, you'll get a new crown and negate the muzzle wear. Also, you'll be cutting a new chamber after you cut the breech end shorter. So long as the inside of the barrel is not pitted to all get out, you should have some success, I think, utilizing that leftover barrel. However, the question will be whether the money you spend on labor will negate the savings in using the old barrel. |
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I have a couple of the $85 BR's that the CMP had a few years ago. At least one of these is going to be "modernized", and why not? The receiver is pitted, the barrel is shot, and I have an 18" 7.62 barrel I got for "just such an occasion." One question I have is regarding the tomato stake barrel - I know the throat and muzzle will likely be shot, but what about the middle? Does anyone think there are 16" of good rifling in there? I have a side project that needs a .308 barrel blank and I'm thinking "waste not, etc.." Tim, the guy who does the conversions, has mentioned such. As long as your throat erosion is within acceptable tolerance (to you anyway), don't worry too much about the rest. When you cut down the barrel, you can cut a new crown on the muzzle, thus negating muzzle wear. Of course, if the barrel is a total shot out sewer pipe, then you're screwed. Is your barrel one of the ones from sarco? I think they sell a kit to complement it. Agreed. If seen a couple of barrels on GunBroker that were converted that way. TEs of 4 and 5, but basicallly new Muzzles. But, even if you make or convert the barrel, you still have to find or convert the op rod. With the Garand's gas cylinder, that invovles shortening the op rod, as well as installing a new tip. Plus, rebending the op tod to new sharper angles/bends. However, and alternative is to find a BM59 gas cylinder, and use it. It hangs down lower below the barrel so doesn't need rebending. I have a spare op rod I picked up, but I believe it needs some tweaking to get it to work right. Yeah, with the barreled receiver, your best bet is to take that barrel, see if sarco still has the kits, then send the lot to Tim Shufflin. He can go as short as you want, likely. And if you wanted to augment with the BM 59 parts, he'd probably be the best one to go to. Turnaround is crazy, like a week. I think I was unclear. I already have an 18" barrel in good condition, unmounted. I've already been in touch with Tim - if I send him the BR with the bad barrel, a parts kit I have, and my short good barrel, a conversion is about $300. My question was about the leftover full length barrel. I have a Remington 580 I want to convert to 7.62x25 and need a blank. The bore diameter and twist of the Garand barrel is correct, and there's plenty of length to be able to cut off the chamber and muzzle. The question I was asking was if, typically, that length is in OK shape. Of course I won't really know until I get into it, but it might be a way to save a few bucks. Ok, I see. Yeah, you'll get a new crown and negate the muzzle wear. Also, you'll be cutting a new chamber after you cut the breech end shorter. So long as the inside of the barrel is not pitted to all get out, you should have some success, I think, utilizing that leftover barrel. However, the question will be whether the money you spend on labor will negate the savings in using the old barrel. That's the thing - I'll need to get ANY blank custom machined for the Remington 580 receiver. The original barrel is attached with pins, and I'm looking to do something like the AR system barrel nut. So I'll need to do machining anyway. On a completely different note, I saw an M1 Tanker converted to use M14 mags at the Nations gun show last week for a bit over $1k. It was done by a good name in the business - I'm wondering if they are flexible on the price. I still have their card. Either that of a real BM-59/61/68. They really are the ultimate evolution of the Garand design. |
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http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/jdubya87/IMG_1948.jpg Somebody rang? I can give you the thread link, but there is a lot of butthurt that went on. I really like mine. A lot. Very pointable, and the battlecomp really brings the muzzle rise down to almost nil. I need to work on the trigger to shorten the reset as much as possible. Probably add a sling and maybe nix the stock pouch. Maybe hydrodip the stock in multi-cam eventually. When I grow up I'm picking up a T-1 and a Burris scout to play with. I might try out a Noveske KX3 and see if it works better than the battlecomp. If I win the lottery any time soon, this rifle will get very very quiet. Nice iron! I'm a .30 cal M1 fan and C&R collector myself but see nothing wrong with this. Nothing is irreversible and IMO is a credit to the weapon, updating it for use as a modern battle rifle. How does the comp tame .30 cal muzzle blast out of a carbine barrel? Also, the stock pouch is cool. Can you get a good enough cheek weld to shoot weak hand when you remove the clips? |
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a good reason for butchering an m-1 to this more modern configuration (the shuff's mini g mod only mods the op rod and barrel-so you could always bring it back to original configuration if wanted) is if you live in a ban state and want to improve the handling and close quarters capabilities of one of the most reliable semi autos ever built without getting into issues with ban restrictions since it does not have a detachable mag.
I borrowed the butcher word from others- I think it is a great idea-since current m1A's are 1200 bucks plus and I think shuffs is charging 595 for the conversion and say you have a rack grade cmp m-1 that only cost you 400 bucks- that is still a pretty good savings for a battle rifle that is ban state neutral. |
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http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/jdubya87/IMG_1948.jpg Somebody rang? I can give you the thread link, but there is a lot of butthurt that went on. I really like mine. A lot. Very pointable, and the battlecomp really brings the muzzle rise down to almost nil. I need to work on the trigger to shorten the reset as much as possible. Probably add a sling and maybe nix the stock pouch. Maybe hydrodip the stock in multi-cam eventually. When I grow up I'm picking up a T-1 and a Burris scout to play with. I might try out a Noveske KX3 and see if it works better than the battlecomp. If I win the lottery any time soon, this rifle will get very very quiet. Nice iron! I'm a .30 cal M1 fan and C&R collector myself but see nothing wrong with this. Nothing is irreversible and IMO is a credit to the weapon, updating it for use as a modern battle rifle. How does the comp tame .30 cal muzzle blast out of a carbine barrel? Also, the stock pouch is cool. Can you get a good enough cheek weld to shoot weak hand when you remove the clips? The muzzle blast wasn't too bad at all. It was pretty loud, but not uncomfortable. I haven't tried shooting weak hand with it on yet. I haven't even shot it with it on, to be honest. The pouch utilizes the existing real sling ferrule on the typical wooden buttstock to secure the pouch, and the ramline isn't fitted or inlet with one. I could always buy an ar15 stud from midway or something and epoxy it in, but I'm wondering if its worth it, especially if it ruins cheek weld. |
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I can see the virtues of a short, light, full-power battle rifle that handles like a carbine.
How many of you guys have taken a close look at the French MAS 49/56? (I'm tallking chambered in the original 7.5 rather than the .308 Century conversions). It is a nice handling little carbine––as light as (and swings quick as) an SKS––but it has the 200 yard accuracy of a Garand. Price tag is around $300––and if you are already reloading for the Garand all you need is 7.5 brass-IMR 4895 and 150 grain boat tails work real good. I do love my Garand––hey, just offering you guys something to think about. ––Eight_Ring |
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Ok I'll play. Here is mine. 1941 WRA.The 4 holes drilled on the reciever by the Previous owner are why I didn't mind Hacking,raping,destroying,murdering, this almost all original rifle. Lucky for me collectors will pay a butt load of money for parts. Paid for itself and much more. Cheap beat up bayonet for kicks.
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee509/rbradeen/richm1stock007.jpg |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Modernized M1 (Page 1 of 2)
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