Armory Sponsor
Posted: 4/19/2011 9:57:03 AM EDT
| Is it necessary to spend $2500 to get a quality M1A? I like the Scout and/or Docomo size but I've heard a lot of negative stuff regarding Springfield. LRB is $2500 for theirs. Ouch. |
|
The vast majority of the negative stuff you hear about SA Inc is 100% FACT no matter who likes it or not and I am sure those words will start a shitstorm from hell.
Their problem is quality control. They produce both 100% perfect in every way rifles and junk that looks like was made in a tent in Pakistan on the same day. If you know what to look for you can find a new or even better a much older used rifle that will serve you as well as any LRB or anything else. They are capable of doing it right. They just don't do it right as much as they used to. |
| Sorry to say MythBuster is right a low life lawyer I know bought a M1A Scout rifle and on the 3rd round fired out of a 5 rd mag it blew the bolt, mag, and a few other small parts out the mag well. I was standing next to him when it happened so it is past the hearsay rule. He sent it back and got a new rifle that I sent to my armorer who still changed the bolt roller to make it more reliable. Go for a used one or get a Smith Enterprise for one of the best made. There are a few out there from us old match shooters when 30 cal service rifle was the rule. |
| I've never had a problem with my SA Scout. Yeah, there's a lot of people on the internet who complain about SA products... but how many people buy one that works well and go shouting around about how it functions as it should? Their QA may not be as good as it used to be and yeah there are some lemons out there but their warranty can't be beat. If you get a SA rifle and it has any issues, notify SA and ship it back to them and they'll fix it (yes, some guys have had to ship the same rifle back 2 or 3 times to get it fixed but other guys have shipped it back once to get it fixed and still plenty others never even had a problem so didn't need to send it anywhere). If the Scout is what you want then get a Scout. |
|
Quoted:
Is Springfield the same Springfield that made the Garands? or are they a different springfield armory? The Springfield that made the Garands was the Springfield Armory in Springfield,MA. A US Goverrnment facility that finally closed in 1963. Springfield Armory, Inc, is a company out of Geneseo, IL that makes the M1A and imports 1911's. And just to confuse things have made small runs of Garands on commercial recievers. |
|
There's 3 Springfield M1As in my shooting circle, all from 2007 and 2008. Mine was the only one with "problems" out of the box. It had a few FTEs due to the crummy extractor. I replaced the extractor with a USGI unit and have had 2,000 rounds down the tube since with ZERO problems. The other 2 fellas' rifles have never had any problems whatsoever. My rifle shot 2 MOA box-stock. All three rifles have had no problems with side-mounted scope mounts. I've reported this before and everytime I mention it, it ruffles the feathers of the Springfield haters. In my experience, Springfield's M1A is a solid product. I don't think reading the internet is doing you any favors on this topic. |
|
Reading the Internet is doing him a HUGE favor. It is showing him that SA Inc has a huge QC control problem and that is something he needs to be aware of before he spends a lot of his hard earned money on a rifle that could be a piece of shit that he may have to send back 2 or more times before it will function.
No one is doing him a favor by claiming these problems do not exist. You could have 50 good SA Inc rifles in "your circle" and I could still be right. |
|
Quoted:
They made their best rifles before the year 2000.
You mean much older Springfield? Idk what to look for. I'm an ar15 guy and new to M1A. Today their QC is FAR worse. What you need to do if you intend to buy a new rifle is find a dealer who has several in stock and take someone with you that knows what to look for. If you don't do that you are taking the chance on getting a problem rifle that will make you hate ALL M-14 type rifles. These people are correct about some things. If you have a problem SA Inc WILL fix it. They may not fix it the first time or the second time your send it back but sooner or later they will make it right. Or after the first trip back it may be fine for the rest of your life. My problem with all that is when you pay that much for a rifle you have the right to expect it to be fine out of the box. I am aware that other makers of nice expensive rifles do sometimes let things out of their factory that are not right but I am willing to bet the farm no other maker does it as much as they do. |
| I would not say SAI has a huge qc problem that would be lie.Yes some bad rifles made it out but same thing happens to new cars lemons.I have a new loaded m1a not a problem also have a older m1a no problems!i just got my 3rd rifle built by 762with a forged rec fantastic shooter!With SAI you do have the best warranty in the business.If you have a problem SAI will make it right!SAI has been building m1a-m14 style rifles longer than anybody else.That is the truth!If they were putting out junk constantly they would've closed up along time ago.Yes you could get one with problems but youhave a better chance getting a good rifle!. |
|
Quoted: Reading the Internet is doing him a HUGE favor. It is showing him that SA Inc has a huge QC control problem and that is something he needs to be aware of before he spends a lot of his hard earned money on a rifle that could be a piece of shit that he may have to send back 2 or more times before it will function. No one is doing him a favor by claiming these problems do not exist. You could have 50 good SA Inc rifles in "your circle" and I could still be right. No, not really. One good example is that you yourself have made it your personal agenda to shit all over any thread in this forum that even mentions SAI, attempting to compound the perceived "problem." I can remember your feathers getting ruffled when my rifle produced 2 MOA in a 10-shot group because you felt this was an ultra-rare exception. You went on and on about how crappy Springfield is, and some two years later, you are still on the same soap box. We get it. You had a bad experience. Fine. Life goes on. There are lots of us here and elsewhere that have had mostly positive experiences with SAI products. Having a quality rifle from SAI is not a RARE event. On the other hand, pay a visit to the M14 Firing Line, where some of the members include Art Luppino, Ted Brown, Art Luppino, Gus Fisher, and Dale Rader. They, and the site admins, seem to have a more honest and forthcoming opinion about rifles from SAI. Reading your rants here on AR15.com aren't doing him any favors whatsoever. My problem with all that is when you pay that much for a rifle you have the right to expect it to be fine out of the box. The problem with this train of thought is that there aren't a whole lot of games in town when it comes to this platform. It's get a Springfield, roll the dice on a Chi-com version, or pay through the nose for a custom build. Just like the MP5 clone world, one needs to accept some potential for problems, but again, the same "risk" is run when buying ANY firearm in this day and age. The 1940s and 50s are gone. No one has that same pride and attention to detail and craftsmanship. It doesn't exist. |
| Not to dampen your enthusiasim for a brand spanking new gun, but have you considered looking for a good condition used rifle? The reason that I ask is because M1As are notorious for showing up in sales racks or for sale ads with only a couple hundred rounds or less fired. Personally, if I was looking for another M1A, I would haunt the Equipment Exchange looking for what I wanted so as to save some cash for ammo. |
|
I have never had an issue with any of my m1a's...neither has anyone I know with a few of their guns. I would seriously consider the scout model.
Any manufacturer will have QC issues at one point or another no matter how "high end" they are claimed to be. Anyone that says otherwise needs to open their eyes. |
| While I won't go as far as "mythbuster's' comments regarding the SA M1As, I had one, and ended up selling it do to problems. But his comments regarding doing a internet search is dead on. More recently there have been postings on M14TFL regarding mismachined receiver bridges on SA M1As, which is a big safety issue. As well as comments improper machining on side rails that causes the bolt roller to come off. Springfield QC is haphazard at best. |
|
Quoted:
[. On the other hand, pay a visit to the M14 Firing Line, where some of the members include Art Luppino, Ted Brown, Art Luppino, Gus Fisher, and Dale Rader. They, and the site admins, seem to have a more honest and forthcoming opinion about rifles from SAI. Reading your rants here on AR15.com aren't doing him any favors whatsoever. You get kicked off the "M14 firing line" for "bashing" if youy post the TRUTH about SA Inc problems. Dale Rader used to work there and he still may. Ted Brown KNOWS all about their problems because he deals with their rifles every day. Ask Gus Fisher personaly off that website and get his REAL opinion. |
|
Quoted:
I don't give a rats ass if your rifle shoots sub MOA or 30 inch groups. You or another other perrson said they are ALL capable of 2 MOA and I said they were not because of the poor QC put into the rifles.
No, not really. One good example is that you yourself have made it your personal agenda to shit all over any thread in this forum that even mentions SAI, attempting to compound the perceived "problem." I can remember your feathers getting ruffled when my rifle produced 2 MOA in a 10-shot group because you felt this was an ultra-rare exception. . No one including myself said anything bad about your rifle. |
I bought an SA M1A standard new in 2009 (top of pic one) and it has been 100% reliable through about a thousand rounds. It came with a TRW trigger group but everything else is SA Inc. I put it in a USGI stock with a walnut handguard from Boyds. I will eventually go back to a fiberglass handguard because the wood heats up quick. 
I bought another one at a gunshow a few months later that was made in 1998 (bottom of pic one). It is also 100% after many rounds down the pipe. It came with an HRA trigger group. I also put in a USGI stock. 
|
|
Quoted:
WOW! Beautiful. Did you have to bed the stock or skim coat it? Nope, just a little boiled linseed oil. I'm a big fan of classic wood. 
The new one originally came with a black fiberglass stock. I bought a TRW kit from the CMP when they first came out. I am still looking for a nice receiver to build it on. |
| I've got an early 2008 Scout with 1915 rounds through it currently. It's been a great rifle. It was stock for about 1500 rounds of that and then recently has been put into a Sage stock. I can't say enough good things about it. I also owned another SAI M1A that was perfect as well. I sold it just because. I'm sure that every maker puts out some bad stuff occasionally. The people with good experiences usually don't write about them and you only hear of the bad ones. The internet is a useful tool, but there's a lot of misinformation on it as well. |
|
Do yourself a favor, get a used SAI standard rifle in these serial number ranges:
Before 34,000 After 42,000 and up to 100,000 These will have good quality receivers and will also have an abundance of GI parts SAI's quality was great when there was an abundance of GI parts to be had. Once they ran out of GI parts they had to find a vendor to make parts. Around serial number 100,000, they switched receiver suppliers. The current issues seem to be some isolated incidents with the magwell being cut too tight at the receiver legs. Some owners have reported not being able to insert magazines (including CMI mags), without damaging or gouging the magazine. In the mid-2000's barrels were notorious for being over-indexed which resulted in moving the front sight all the way to the right to get the rifle to shoot center with the rear sight windage centered. Extractors are notorious for either not gripping the rim very well or launching themselves out of a bolt while firing. Receivers from the 90's and maybe earlier had the bolt-roller impact defect. SAI rifles are what we can refer to as the McDonald's of M14 suppliers. They are okay, can be had at a bargain, most people will enjoy them but they won't be as good off the line as a custom built rifle. I have an older SAI and will most likely buy only older SAI's after I know what I am looking for. For someone who is just getting into M1A's and is really unsure if they will even like M1A's, it's best to go with a loaded model, If you don't like it, you can sell it with minimal or no loss. |
|
Quoted:
I have 2 SA M1As, a Standard and a Bush Rifle. Both are preban, and both are 100%. I have read that many of the older, USGI parts have run out and that some of the parts now used on SA M1As are new manufacture and/or imports of low quality. Is this true? Steve Yes, most likely from Taiwan but SAI will never confirm it in public. |
|
I have a loaded, and a socom.
I have never had a problem with the socom. The loaded, I changed the extractor to a usgi extractor, and haven't had a problem since. I bought them both used, and saved a lot of $$$. It is pretty easy to find them with low round counts. I have never had a scout, but I would buy one without hesitation. About 6 months ago I picked up a fal for a good deal. It was a good gun, It was never going to get shot while I have these hanging around. 
|
|
You know, you never really miss anything on this forum, it's been a while since i was on this section of AR15.com, and we still have the same people answering similiar questions the exact same way.
Just like our worthless politicians, very agenda driven. Springfield makes the most rifles, by far. I would certainly bet that they have the most lemons to go along with that. I have had three different M1a's, one of them had to go back for a infrequent light strike issue, my local gun store sent it back for me, and it was fixed quickly. Do not fool yourself, when you look into it, ALL THE MANUFACTURERS have had their issues, maybe I am imagining things, but I am pretty sure I have read of previous issues with LRB's receivers, which I am sure they fix, but so does SAI. I have a 96xxx all trw m1a I will probably never get rid of left in my collection. If I were you, I would not hesitate to buy a SAI, and personally would look for a older model with a low round count, and USGI parts, but that is just me. Most commercial parts are just fine. |
|
Quoted:
You know, you never really miss anything on this forum, it's been a while since i was on this section of AR15.com, and we still have the same people answering similiar questions the exact same way. Just like our worthless politicians, very agenda driven. Springfield makes the most rifles, by far. I would certainly bet that they have the most lemons to go along with that. I have had three different M1a's, one of them had to go back for a infrequent light strike issue, my local gun store sent it back for me, and it was fixed quickly. Do not fool yourself, when you look into it, ALL THE MANUFACTURERS have had their issues, maybe I am imagining things, but I am pretty sure I have read of previous issues with LRB's receivers, which I am sure they fix, but so does SAI. I have a 96xxx all trw m1a I will probably never get rid of left in my collection. If I were you, I would not hesitate to buy a SAI, and personally would look for a older model with a low round count, and USGI parts, but that is just me. Most commercial parts are just fine. Good to hear your common sense thinking... Even the much heralded LRB receiver has been manufactured out of spec.
My NIB MA9102-5 has been a real sweetheart. |
Armory Sponsor