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Posted: 6/15/2010 10:31:49 PM EDT
| I have an opportunity to buy a Federal Ordnance M1A. What is the general consensus on these? |
| I have a later Fed Ord built on a Chinese parts set that is a great rifle.The low serial number ones were built with all USGI parts and are the preferred rifles.Federal Ordnance built about 60,000 M14 type rifles,and as I recall,the first 22,000 or so were all USGI.The receivers are investment castings finished on a CNC machine.Quality control was a bit hit or miss,but most are fine rifles.The only problem I ever noticed on my receiver is the placement of the vertical groove at the scope mount hole on the left side of the receiver.The groove is slightly off center on mine,and on several others I have examined.Most scopemounts do not depend on this groove anyway (except Basset mounts) so not a biggie. |
OK. I did a little research after I posted this.. The FFL wants $975 and told me that they bought it from an older guy that carried it in Vietnam. I believed it since I have never heard of Federal Ordnance. I now know that is bullshit. I will have to ask about the serial number and see what the deal is. Thanks for the info.
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Let him keep his fed-ord and his story. why deal with someone when you know they are BS from the get-go. I try real hard not to spend my money with pricks, and liers, but I pay my taxes anyway... The last line in there is good sigline material! The FFL is a pawn shop run by 2 women, who up until now have impressed me with their firearm knowledge. When I was told that story, while I had the rifle in my hands, the rifle looked brand new and I had thought the guy was issued it and never seen action or whatever. I think the old guy selling the rifle got one over on them. |
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the rifle looked brand new and I had thought the guy was issued it and never seen action or whatever. I think the old guy selling the rifle got one over on them.
Federal Ordnance was a private company in the US that made M14-like rifles with either Chinese or US GI parts. They sold their rifles to people just like the other manufacturers (Colt, Remington, Ruger, etc). Their rifles were NEVER in the US military supply system and would have NEVER made their way to Vietnam. No one in any branch of the military would ever be stupid enough to take their own Federal Ordnance Rifle to Vietnam when they could be issued a real M14 when they got there. I'm pretty sure that Federal Ordnance didn't make or sell any M14 type rifles until after all US forces were out of Vietnam. Edited due to Different's expert information (always accurate, as usual and as expected). |
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I'm pretty sure that Federal Ordnance didn't even go into business until after all US forces were out of Vietnam. Federal Ordnance, Inc. was established as a California corporation by Burton "Bob" Brenner in November 1966. The firm began manufacturing its semi-automatic only M14 rifles (investment cast commercial manufacture receivers and USGI parts) in 1984. |
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I'm pretty sure that Federal Ordnance didn't even go into business until after all US forces were out of Vietnam. Federal Ordnance, Inc. was established as a California corporation by Burton "Bob" Brenner in November 1966. The firm began manufacturing its semi-automatic only M14 rifles (investment cast commercial manufacture receivers and USGI parts) in 1984. What did Fed Ord do/make from 1966 to 1984 before they made M14 type rifles? |
| In 1990 I bought two .45 stripped frames direct from Federal Ordinance. I had to return one of them because one of the holes was drilled in the wrong place. They went out of business shortly thereafter I believe but they did produce and sell a lot of the .45 frames. |
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I'm pretty sure that Federal Ordnance didn't even go into business until after all US forces were out of Vietnam. Federal Ordnance, Inc. was established as a California corporation by Burton "Bob" Brenner in November 1966. The firm began manufacturing its semi-automatic only M14 rifles (investment cast commercial manufacture receivers and USGI parts) in 1984. What did Fed Ord do/make from 1966 to 1984 before they made M14 type rifles? The following are excerpts from the California Connection by James Mock and Lee Emerson. A full copy of the California Connection is available in .pd format for free upon request to my e-mail address. "1966 Nov Bob Brenner incorporates Federal Ordnance. He works out of his home until some point in the early 1970s when he moves into the same building as National Ordnance, Inc. on Alpaca Street. At this time, he is in the business of importing ammunition for sale to distributors around the country. He develops a strong friendship with John Arnold in the 1960s. Seymour Ziebert moves to Spain for the rest of his life. (References: California Secretary of State, Jim’s interviews with Alvin Gettler and Bob Penney, and Lee’s interview with Bob Brenner) 1969 The 3,200 square foot building at 9649 Alpaca Street South El Monte, CA is constructed. Brenner moves Federal Ordnance into this building, located on the east side of National Ordnance at 9643 Alpaca. (Reference: Los Angeles County Tax Assessor) 1970 The mailing address for Federal Ordnance is P.O. Box 36032 Los Angeles, CA 90036. By this time, both Federal Ordnance and National Ordnance have large quantities of M1903, M1 Carbine and M1 Garand surplus parts. In the early 1970s, John Arnold and Bob Brenner are collaborating to produce commercial receivers and assemble complete rifles from surplus parts for sale to the public through distributors. (Reference: 1970 Gun Digest and Lee’s interview with Bob Brenner) 1973 Dec John Arnold of National Ordnance dies from cancer. Production of the M14 rifle is halted before it starts, at National Ordnance. In support of the M14 project, Bob Brenner had acquired twenty to thirty surplus parts kits for John Arnold. John Arnold had thought that M14 surplus parts would become much more available whereas Bob Brenner didn’t think so. Ecrimesa (Santander, Spain) had made and shipped at least one M14 receiver to National Ordnance, Inc. as a sample. Fuller writes that two M14 National Ordnance receivers were completed. John Arnold’s estate leaves National Ordnance to Walter Rayno, head foreman, and Jessica LaMont, wife of Wyant John Lamont, in a 50/50 split. Shortly thereafter, Rayno and LaMont sell National Ordnance to Bob Brenner. (Reference: vital statistics search, United States Martial and Collectors Arms by Stephen Fuller, and Jim’s interview with Bob Penney) Early 1974 M1 carbine production at National Ordnance stops, according to Bob Penney, Wyant LaMont, and Bob Brenner. United States Martial and Collectors Arms by Stephen Fuller indicates 1975. 1974 Federal Ordnance is located at 9649 Alpaca Street South El Monte, CA, adjacent to National Ordnance. The 10,080 square foot building at 1443 Potrero Avenue South El Monte, CA is constructed. Ranger Machine & Tool Corporation is located at 1443 Potrero Avenue South El Monte, CA, around this time. (References: 1974 telephone directory, Los Angeles County Tax Assessor, and Lee’s interview with Bob Brenner) 1975 Jun Bob Brenner approaches Walter Rayno to manufacture new M1 Garand receivers so that he can assemble complete rifles from the parts inventory left over from Golden State Arms. Unfortunately, that weekend, Mr. Rayno suddenly dies while enjoying the horse races at Santa Anita. (References: California Death Index and Lee’s interview with Bob Brenner) 1981 May Ranger Machine & Tool Corporation incorporated by Burton Brenner. The firm is physically located at 9624 Alpaca Street South El Monte, CA. (References: California Secretary of State and 1981 telephone directory) 1981 Business at Federal Ordnance continues to grow necessitating the move to 1443 Potrero Avenue South El Monte, CA. A.R. Sales Co. is now at 1900 Tyler Street South El Monte, CA. Bob Brenner is the owner. His wife, Barbara, runs the office for at least a portion of the time Federal Ordnance occupies this building. (References: 1981 telephone directory, Pacific Canvas & Leather Co. web site, Jim’s interview with Barbara Brenner, and Lee’s interviews with Bob Brenner, Steve Karnes, and Ron Smith) 1982 Federal Ordnance was ending its production of M1 Garand rifles and M1 Carbines. The receivers had been cast at Ecrimesa in Santander, Spain. Machining is done at 9649 Alpaca Street. Sales and service is handled at 1443 Portrero Avenue. Jack Karnes and Robert Thomasser are employed at Federal Ordnance as machinists. Jack Karnes was the head machinist. He had overseen production of M1 Garand rifles and M1 Carbines. He is involved with machining the very first few Federal Ordnance M14 receivers. When Bob Thomasser is hired, Karnes moves to Ranger M1911 production. Mr. Thomasser is later promoted to Vice President and oversees repairs, machining and the wood shop. Eventually, he manages the machine shop employees producing the Ranger .45 ACP pistol and Federal Ordnance M14 rifle. (Reference: no listing after the 1981 Gun Digest, Pacific Canvas & Leather web site, Jim’s interview with Robert Thomasser, and Lee’s interviews with Steve Karnes and Ron Smith) 1984 A. R. Sales Co. closes its shop operations. About this time, Federal Ordnance starts up the M14 rifle production. One Japanese brand CNC machining center is leased for producing M14 receivers. Factory representatives set up the CNC machining center and program it to machine semi-automatic M14 receivers from Ecrimesa made castings. It is set up inside a leased building one block from 1443 Potrero Avenue. M14 rifles are assembled at a warehouse up the alley and behind 1443 Potrero Avenue. Finished M14 rifles were stored on the lower level of 1443 Potrero Avenue. Sales and management offices were located in the front office and upstairs floor at 1443 Potrero Avenue. Ranger M1911 pistols are machined at 9649 Alpaca Street. (Reference: Lee’s interview with Steve Karnes, 1984 telephone directory only lists a phone number) 1985/1986 Federal Ordnance peaks at 120 to 125 employees. (Reference: Jim’s interview with Robert Thomasser)" |
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The fed ord negative rap is a bunch of bullsh*&. I would say the vast majority are well built and very nice. If you have one and it is "well built and very nice " , you are a VERY LUCKY PERSON. To the OP, I have one in the low 7000 ser. # range (and all TRW PARTS) that could not hit the bullseye at 50 YARDS with the front and rear sight at it"s extreme left and right settings. Sent it to "Warbirds" and he had to square off the front of the receiver so the bbl. would index carrectly while keeping the headspace correct. Did a good job.Now only the rear sight has to be adjusted about 4 ckicks from it's extreme (right) setting to get it on the bullseye. Some people I know and horror stories I have read confirm this. BOTTOM LINE, I would pass unless you are absolutely SURE you have a "well built and very nice" one. |
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