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Posted: 4/5/2010 5:27:19 AM EDT
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I own a 5.8 million serial range Springfield M1 rifle. Pretty decent old rifle.
Anyhow, son and I went shooting yesterday, and fired up a bunch of cheap Taiwanese corrosive ammo. No big deal....I just take the thing apart and clean it thoroughly. However....like every time I shoot this rifle more than a couple clips, the gas valve is always loose when I pull maintenance on the musket. A visual inspection doesn't show anything I think is abnormal with the valve, lock, or gas tube. Threads look in excellent shape, and the valve screws in like new, tightens fine. I figure that I'm either not getting the gas valve tight enough, or that it's a fairly normal thing for the valve to loosen a bit under the stress of firing. The rifle preforms perfectly otherwise...even eating the smelly/smokey dented up spam canned Taiwan ammo without complaint. So just how tight do I need to get the gas valve? Is it unusual for the valve to back off under recoil/firing? Thanx, Seventeen. |
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I probably should get me a proper tool to tighten up the plug, I suppose.
Have been using a jumbo screwdriver that fits perfect, but ain't proper...and doesn't provide much torque. Is there any official torque specs for tightening the offending part? Thanx, Seventeen |
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Can you imagine all our troops in WW-II and Korea stopping several times a day during combat to "finger tighten" their gas plugs after their Garands started short stroking. I am sure a lot of them would have been killed. . Mine doesn't 'unscrew'...it's just not tight after a shoot. First time it was loose, I figured I just screwed it in finger tight and failed to tighten it up after reassembling it the previous time. But no...it obviously loses it's 'torque' when shooting. My son and I burned up a lot of really crappy clipped up corrosive ball ammo, and nothing but perfect function.......which brings on another question for the M1 gurus! Question number two. When purchased, my M1 would function perfectly with Greek M2 ball, commercial ball too. However it hated the Taiwanese spam canned stuff. I shouldn't say 'hated', because it half-ass worked with that ammo, but would occasionaly 'short stroke', acting like the Taiwan ammo was just barely powerful enough to function the rifle. I wasn't all that concerned with the musket not liking the cheap/nasty ammo. So...this winter I 'tuned up' the Garand rifle. I replaced the rear sight elevation spindle, installed a new recoil spring, and some other rather minor work/repairs the rifle was due for. Now the M1 eats crappy Taiwan M2 ball ammo like it was premium match ammo! 
The only part that might alter the rifle's function I replaced was the recoil spring(1960's dated in wrap USGI spring). I really figured the new spring would just kill the rifle's function with the Taiwan ball ammo, but no...the gun now works perfectly with the shitty ammo. 
So why would installing a new recoil spring/mainspring thats obviously stronger(and a bit longer) make the M1 function better with ammo that's inferior? Thanx, Seventeen. |
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Who say's it's inferior? The HXP is hotter though. Huh?....I did. I say that because, while the spam can was fine on the outside, some( quite a lot of it) of the ammo inside was dented up from rough handeling, it smokes, it stinks, it's corrosive(so I'm told), caused problems when the Greek ball didn't....it's definately inferior to Greek ball. The only advantage to the Taiwan ball....at the time it was available, and it was cheap! meets my criteria for 'inferior', excepting the cheap part. My only goal with the ammo in question is to burn it all up, and re-stuff the clips with some Greek ball I bought in 20 round box's.
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| Was the spring you replaced a USGI or was it a commercial spring. Are you the first owner of the Garand? Reason i ask is if someone else owned the rifle before you they may have repalced the Op Rod spring with a Wolff barnd spring which is to strong and can cause short stroking. |
No...not the first owner....or the second. The rifle was made about 8 years before I was born! This one came out of a fellow's collection of DCM Garands....I paid to much for it....and love the old musket.
I do believe the spring in the gun was GI....US, Greek, Danish, whatever. I replaced the spring because it didn't make the length spec I saw online at the CMP forums. However...I must say, the new spring just barely made the 'minimum' length spec I replaced the old spring to meet.
Probably a moot point...the rifle definately has a NOS USGI spring in it now....I peeled it from the dated and numbered wrap myself. I also re-sprung my M1 carbine at the same time. I really suppose a guy that owns these old rifles should probably install a new spring. Ain't no telling how many shots fired, or origin of the springs that's in the guns to begin with. |
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Question- When assembled, is your gas cylinder tight? Does it have a lot of play- side to side movement? It did have just a touch of wiggle in the barrel splines, but I slightly peckered the splines and snugged it all up...didn't take much. Wasn't floppy or anything. I have not fired any HXP ammo...just Greek, a small quanity of US made ball(old, corrosive shit), PMC ball, and Taiwanese M2 ball. I did pump one clip of Remington 150gr softpoints through it too(yes, I know the issues with that). Worked fine, and has always worked fine with anything excepting some issues with the Taiwan stuff. It is true that the old recoil spring could have been any make or model....but I figure it was likely not an aftermarket spring....Why? Because the previous owner had more M1 Garands than you could shake a stick at! He probably fired this one a time or so, and moved on to a better one! He wasn't an 'aftermarket' sort of guy.
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Hmmmmm............. So when you tighten the cylinder lock all the way, how far past center does it go? Point to my questions is, there is supposed to be a certain degree of tension lock-up. If there is no tension, there is no lock-up. This would have nothing to do with the gas screw loosening. The gas cylinder lock over rotating is because the gas cylinder is set back to far which is from worn splines on the barrel which can be fixed by peening the barrel splines. Just tighten the darn gas screw with a proper tool and go shoot it. If ity then continues to loosen you may have to replace parts . No sense in replacing anything if it isnt needed Here is how to peen the barrel splines, I do it the way the illustration on the left shows Lay a socket on the barrel slines approx 1/8 inch from the front and tap it with a hammer. This will slightly bend the splines down and make the gas cylinder fit tight . Lay the barrel on a soft piece of wood when doing this. 
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That's essentially what I did to tighten up my gas cylinder/front sight assembly. That and cleaned up the barrel crown, and tightened up the stock fit. I also refit the metal piece on the front end of the buttstock, replaced the recoil spring as mentioned, replaced the rear sight spindle, and installed a milled triggerguard with slightly better lugs.
Made a substantial difference in the rifles accuracy......I got my info out of a 1970's gunsmithing book that had a chapter on Garand rifles. I'm thinking I'm not getting the screw tight enough, since I'm just using a screwdriver to snug the part up, then not retightning it until after I'm done shooting. I was just curious about why my musket was marginal with the Taiwan ammo, and then mysteriously perfectly reliable with a new spring installed...ain't no big deal. |
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Hmmmmm............. So when you tighten the cylinder lock all the way, how far past center does it go? Point to my questions is, there is supposed to be a certain degree of tension lock-up. If there is no tension, there is no lock-up. This all ALL 100% BS. The gas cylinder is properly installed when it is lined up with the gas port. It does not matter how much far "past center" the lock goes. If it is loose then the splines must be peened. |
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That's essentially what I did to tighten up my gas cylinder/front sight assembly. That and cleaned up the barrel crown, and tightened up the stock fit. I also refit the metal piece on the front end of the buttstock, replaced the recoil spring as mentioned, replaced the rear sight spindle, and installed a milled triggerguard with slightly better lugs. Made a substantial difference in the rifles accuracy......I got my info out of a 1970's gunsmithing book that had a chapter on Garand rifles. I'm thinking I'm not getting the screw tight enough, since I'm just using a screwdriver to snug the part up, then not retightning it until after I'm done shooting. I was just curious about why my musket was marginal with the Taiwan ammo, and then mysteriously perfectly reliable with a new spring installed...ain't no big deal. The most significant reason is that you in effect replaced your magazine spring with a new/stiffer one......it supplies a greater initial lifting force at rest that increases during the feeding cycle to lift the next round into position soon enough to be stripped from the enbloc when the bolt comes forward into battery. Often seen to be short stroking, but not....the next round is simply not raised in time to get stripped off the top. 
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Hmmmmm............. So when you tighten the cylinder lock all the way, how far past center does it go? Point to my questions is, there is supposed to be a certain degree of tension lock-up. If there is no tension, there is no lock-up. This would have nothing to do with the gas screw loosening. The gas cylinder lock over rotating is because the gas cylinder is set back to far which is from worn splines on the barrel which can be fixed by peening the barrel splines. Just tighten the darn gas screw with a proper tool and go shoot it. If ity then continues to loosen you may have to replace parts . No sense in replacing anything if it isnt needed Here is how to peen the barrel splines, I do it the way the illustration on the left shows Lay a socket on the barrel slines approx 1/8 inch from the front and tap it with a hammer. This will slightly bend the splines down and make the gas cylinder fit tight . Lay the barrel on a soft piece of wood when doing this. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/peening.gif RIF He has already peened the splines. It (gas cylinder lock screw) still works loose. So.... your diagnosis is off. So, being the expert you are, what is his next course of action? |
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Never said I was a expert.
From your post your true colors are showing through as well as your lack of knowledge of how the Garand operates The psoition that thegas lock sets has absolutly nothing to do with the gas screw backing out I was addressing your suggestion which was off base Peening the splines and tapping the gas cylinder onto the barrel will make the gas lock set and lock up in the proper position and will have no bearing on wether the gas screw stays tight or not Why cant a guy ask a question and it be answered without some jacka** making stupid remarks |
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Never said I was a expert. From your post your true colors are showing through as well as your lack of knowledge of how the Garand operates The psoition that thegas lock sets has absolutly nothing to do with the gas screw backing out I was addressing your suggestion which was off base Peening the splines and tapping the gas cylinder onto the barrel will make the gas lock set and lock up in the proper position and will have no bearing on wether the gas screw stays tight or not Why cant a guy ask a question and it be answered without some jacka** making stupid remarks Try spell-check next time..... It's pretty easy. And as for your suggestions... I suggest you cuddle up closer to your Garand(s). You might learn something. jack-ass.
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Workin' fine...just can't keep my gas plug tight.....
Ain't trying to keep it tight that damn hard.  Weld it 
Seriously, probably best to just replace the gas lock and the gas lock screw. Try here for new to like new USGI http://www.billricca.com |
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Never said I was a expert. From your post your true colors are showing through as well as your lack of knowledge of how the Garand operates Please, Do tell The psoition that thegas lock sets has absolutly nothing to do with the gas screw backing out If it indexes at 1 o'clock, then there is no issue? I was addressing your suggestion which was off base Peening the splines and tapping the gas cylinder onto the barrel will make the gas lock set and lock up in the proper position and will have no bearing on wether the gas screw stays tight or not So after doing this, if the screw still backs out, what then? Why cant a guy ask a question and it be answered without some jacka** making stupid remarks It can be many things, but the obvious and quick fix is to try another lock screw. If the cylinders sets back so far the gas port is obscured, then yes, peening is called for. If not, then we need to look closer, not shoot from the hip. When properly assembled, there is a certain amount of tension in the cylinder/lock/lock screw set up. I apologize for attacking your spelling. It actually looked like you were typing on a Blackberry or Ipod. I am sure you are very knowledgeable about these rifles, however you may not have experienced the Korean re-imports of the early '90's. Problems like these were common, and in combination with the horrible condition of most barrels (corrosive ammo and zealous over-cleaning) gave these rifles a bad reputation. I actually had one with a decent barrel I gave up on and sold. It seemed to be inhabited by Gremlins.
To the OP, try another lock screw. I may have a spare if you need it. Let me know and I'll look. 
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He has already peened the splines. It (gas cylinder lock screw) still works loose. So.... your diagnosis is off. So, being the expert you are, what is his next course of action? Tighten the damn thing properly. It is NOT rocket science. If you get it as tight as it should be it WILL NOT WORK LOOSE. I can't believe that adults are having this conversation. |
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[] To the OP, try another lock screw. I may have a spare if you need it. Let me know and I'll look.
What possible good is another lock screw going to do him if he does not tighten the damn thing? Exactly!!! You cannot expect the lock screw to stay tight if you're using a screwdriver. Not if it's new. Not if it's old. As suggested above, use a M10, M3 tool or a 3/8 drive on the thing. Period. End of story. Why the pissing match? Eagle1OH |
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If one puts new wheels on his car and he tightens the lug nuts with his fingers what is going to happen?
The wheels are going to come off going down the road. He can buy new studs, nuts, and new wheels but if does not tighten the nuts correctly they are going to come off again. I can shoot my Garand or ANY Garand that I have tightened the lock screw on all day long every day until the barrel is a smooth bore and the lock will not work loose. Why is that? Is it because I know some secret that only myself and John Garand knows? Do I have some sort of physic power that keeps the nut tight? No. It is because I TIGHTEN THE DAMN THING. |
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If one puts new wheels on his car and he tightens the lug nuts with his fingers what is going to happen? The wheels are going to come off going down the road. He can buy new studs, nuts, and new wheels but if does not tighten the nuts correctly they are going to come off again. I can shoot my Garand or ANY Garand that I have tightened the lock screw on all day long every day until the barrel is a smooth bore and the lock will not work loose. Why is that? Is it because I know some secret that only myself and John Garand knows? Do I have some sort of physic power that keeps the nut tight? No. It is because I TIGHTEN THE DAMN THING. So if the OP tightens the hell out of it, and it still works loose, then what? Sell the gun? Really, you don't have to torque them that tight. A large screwdriver will do it, if that's what you have. Next thing you know you will be suggesting loctite...
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It is obvious that he did NOT "tighten the hell out of it" If he did it would not work loose.
So if the OP tightens the hell out of it, and it still works loose, then what? Sell the gun? Really, you don't have to torque them that tight. A large screwdriver will do it, if that's what you have. Next thing you know you will be suggesting loctite...
And YES if you just use a screwdriver it WILL work loose. It may not in two or three rounds but after a few round it will. |
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