Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
Armory Sponsor
12/9/2009 6:15:26 PM EDT
I know, they're not M1s, but there's not really a Springfield board so thought I'd ask here. Looking at the chrome drill rifles Dupage sells for $350. Fully functional with dark bores from shooting lots of blanks. No advisory against shooting on the page. IF I buy one, would it be safe with conservative loads?-I usually run 41-43 grains of 4895 with my M1. 45 was recommended to me, backed off a bit and if I adjust the sights for the slightly lower velocity I get good accuracy. With the (very) slightly lower pressure, would these rifles be safe for occasional use, or better off designated wallhangers as recommended on other sites?
ETA-link to listinghttps://www.dupagetrading.com/firearms/chrome-parade-03-rifles.html
12/9/2009 6:24:13 PM EDT
[#1]
I have heard that light loaded ammo is safe. For the small price difference though you can get a nice 03A3 that is 100% safe to shoot and won't rearrange your face.
12/9/2009 7:05:23 PM EDT
[#2]
I have been told by people I respect in the CMP that they have no concerns shooting low number rifles with M2 ball and ammo loaded to similiar pressures.

A total failure is very unlikely.  Buy a set of gauges and check headspace from time to time.  

All that said...there are lots of high number rifles out there, and the biggest problem (as I am discovering) with 03's is the barrels are tough to find and expensive (compared to an A3).  I got a Mark 1 reciever from Dupage a while ago, and you can always find a perfectly safe A3, even if you have to get a reciever and barrel seperately.
12/9/2009 7:05:32 PM EDT
[#3]
The 'low numbered' 1903 Springfields and Rock Island rifles really did have some issues blowing up.

You might read Julian Hatchers report on the issue and make up your own mind.
12/9/2009 7:37:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
The 'low numbered' 1903 Springfields and Rock Island rifles really did have some issues blowing up.

You might read Julian Hatchers report on the issue and make up your own mind.


I've read parts of that-I'm torn on the idea of whether they're safe or not. The information I read said X number of rifles blew up, BUT this was the cause. Half of what I read says don't do it, the other half says they're fine. Just like Remington ammo in a Garand. Before I knew better I shot nothing but Remington green/yellow box in a rewelded Springfield M1.Mostly 150 grain, but some 180 when the store was out of 150. Sold the rifle later that year, and the current owner is still shooting it with the same parts it had in it when I owned it. Doesn't change the amount of oprods that DID bend. Maybe I'll save the money, it was an impulse anyway.
12/10/2009 1:08:20 AM EDT
[#5]
isnt this like the second thread on this very subject this week? dude, just spend the money on a safe 03 springer. i really dont wanna come here and see a thread on how you blew your face up
12/10/2009 8:50:58 AM EDT
[#6]
If you put a good barrel on that chrome '03, it would still be a freak.  Be patient and look for a nice one.
12/10/2009 5:24:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Can anyone cite an example of a low numbered Springfield/Rock Island receiver failing anytime within the last 50 years?  I had a low numbered Rock Island that went thru a WWII rebuild.  She was rebarreled and was double P struck which means that she had at least two High Pressure test rounds fired and about 20 rounds of M2 ball before the second P was struck.  I have no problem firing a reproofed WWII low number but would most likely shoot cast thru an original low numbered non rebuild/reproofed.
12/10/2009 8:14:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The 'low numbered' 1903 Springfields and Rock Island rifles really did have some issues blowing up.

You might read Julian Hatchers report on the issue and make up your own mind.


I've read parts of that-I'm torn on the idea of whether they're safe or not. The information I read said X number of rifles blew up, BUT this was the cause. Half of what I read says don't do it, the other half says they're fine. Just like Remington ammo in a Garand. Before I knew better I shot nothing but Remington green/yellow box in a rewelded Springfield M1.Mostly 150 grain, but some 180 when the store was out of 150. Sold the rifle later that year, and the current owner is still shooting it with the same parts it had in it when I owned it. Doesn't change the amount of oprods that DID bend. Maybe I'll save the money, it was an impulse anyway.



For ME, it would boil down to.......

RISK..........

*WARNING ON “LOW-NUMBER” SPRINGFIELDS
M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury.  It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts.  This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000, and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507.  All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles.  Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all “low-number” Springfields.  During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the  rebuilding and reissuing of many “low-number” as well as “high-number” Springfields.  The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.

Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down.  All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body.  High number bolts have  “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.  

A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be “low number”.  All original swept-back bolts are definitely “high number”.  In addition, any bolt marked “N.S.” (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as “high number” if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).

CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A ”LOW NUMBER” RECEIVER.  Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not  “shooters”.

CMP ALSO DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE, REGARDLESS OF SERIAL NUMBER, WITH A SINGLE HEAT-TREATed “LOW NUMBER” BOLT.  SUCH BOLTS, WHILE HISTORICALLY CORRECT FOR DISPLAY WITH A RIFLE OF WWI OR EARLIER VINTAGE, MAY BE DANGEROUS TO USE FOR SHOOTING.

THE UNITED STATES ARMY GENERALLY DID NOT SERIALIZE BOLTS.  DO NOT RELY ON ANY SERIAL NUMBER APPEARING ON A BOLT TO DETERMINE WHETHER SUCH BOLT IS “HIGH NUMBER” OR “LOW NUMBER”.


So, are YOU willing?

Aloha, Mark


12/11/2009 2:44:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Would you and your family get on a airplane and fly  if told that it has a record of defects and could crash?
Nuff said
12/11/2009 5:17:29 AM EDT
[#10]
I have a Low Number Springfield 03 that I shoot all the time- with cast bullets. It's a great old rifle and very accurate. I figure she's done her time in the service of this nation and deserves an easy retirement.
12/11/2009 6:38:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Would you and your family get on a airplane and fly  if told that it has a record of defects and could crash?
Nuff said


If said plane had the rejects sorted out and destroyed, the remaining ones gone over with a fine tooth comb and no accidents to note since perhaps the 1920's or 30's (70 years ago)........absolutely.  I still would like for someone to post a link to incident's of specific low numbered receivers that were double heat treated that have failed since the process occurred some 60 to 70 years ago.  

12/11/2009 7:25:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Its the ones that werent heat treated you need to worry about
12/11/2009 7:29:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Its the ones that werent heat treated you need to worry about


Exactly.  
12/11/2009 8:44:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Liability is reason enough for anyone with common sense to recommend leaving the low number Springfields as wallhangers only.

There are enough later model actions available on the market that should someone desire a safe shootable rifle, he could certainly find one.
Armory Sponsor