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AR15.COM
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11/16/2008 5:31:30 PM EDT
Per my username (), I realized there are a few things I don't know about the M1 rifle. So I decided I'd query the collective expertise here in the Armory.

First and simplest, what kind of Parkerizing/phosphating finish was used on M1 rifles in US Military service? E.g. a brand new M1 coming from, say, Springfield Armory in October of 1945. Manganese? Zinc? something else?

Second, what can be done about a loose rear sight cover spring? Mine is loose, allowing aperture wobble, and it's killing the practical accuracy of the rifle. I'm sick of shimming the rear sight assembly with bits of cardboard and the like in order to prevent wobble.

Third, how good is DGR with M1 refinishing, replacement stocks (with metal and fitting), and the like?

Thanks in advance folks.
11/16/2008 11:52:00 PM EDT
[#1]
http://www.hotflashrefinishing.com/Parkerizing.htm...
11/17/2008 11:41:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks, but while that was long on subjective answers, it didn't have the actual answer I was looking for.

To wit:
What specific phosphate type? Manganese? Zinc? Something else?
11/17/2008 11:45:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Zinc, the manganese was used later, Korea and post Korean era.
11/17/2008 1:54:49 PM EDT
[#4]
You might need a new spring, check on the underside of it.  There is a small rib there that puts the tension on the aperture.  If it's worn (flat/shiny), you'll probably want a new spring.  You can very slightly "bend" them to loosen or tighten, but you might just want to get a new one.
11/17/2008 2:39:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Here


He uses the zinc, and can probably (definitely) fix the sight for you while he has it.
11/17/2008 2:55:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Zinc, the manganese was used later, Korea and post Korean era.


also, zinc is the lighter "gray" finish of the WWII rifles, manganese is darker gray and can be almost black, like on AR barrels.

11/17/2008 3:01:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Dye can also be added to zinc phosphate and manganese phosphate solutions to darken the finish color.

Bill Ricca still has some brand new late production rear sight spring covers.
http://www.billricca.com
11/17/2008 4:05:48 PM EDT
[#8]
DGR is top notch and his stocks are probably the best on the market in the fit and finish dept.  he uses Wenigs and fits them to a rifle before finishing them and sending to you.  His park services are excellent also.

As for what park and when, it varies.  Generally, the zinc was used during WWII and manganese Korea and after.  But I have a 5.9 SA with original zinc park, and 2 HRA's one a 4.6 that has been arsenal refinished and the other, a 5.7  with original finish and both have zinc park too.  I have been told that the factory often used whatever was handy and especially at the Springfield armory.  I have seen original WWII rifles that appear black also.  

A lot depends on the strength of the solution when the rifle was finished, the manner in whcih it was stored, etc.  Personally I like the zinc park over the manganese.
11/17/2008 4:17:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
A lot depends on the strength of the solution when the rifle was finished, the manner in whcih it was stored, etc.  


True.  I've done manganese phosphating and brand new solution that's never been used can be lighter, you run a few parts and it gets darker.  I toss in a small piece of degreased steel wool the first time I use solution to "season" it.  It can also depend on the amount of time you leave the parts in, and different steels take the treatment differently.  I did a Fed Ord receiver with some small parts (front band, sight parts), and the receiver did not get as dark, even after doing it twice (I am assuming from the case hardening?).
11/17/2008 6:48:10 PM EDT
[#10]
DGR does very nice work.
11/18/2008 12:39:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks, guys!

Looks like zinc it is, if there's a choice.

And a new cover spring, and a DGR stock.

My, how the money flies....
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