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Posted: 1/6/2006 5:38:56 AM EDT
My beautiful like new Garand definately has a head space problem. Blowing gas by primers and local gunsmith said it closed on the field guage. Who can I send it to for honest appriasal of the problem? Want someone who is experienced with Garands and can diagnose the problem without wanting to start reploacing barrels, bolts, etc. My local gunsmith only works on them occasionally and I really don't have great confidence in him.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:12:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 6:14:30 AM EDT by Dano523]
users3.ev1.net/~hd80/Warbird.HTM

You may luck out and Warbird can swap bolts until he finds one that works to get you the correct head space.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:58:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kentuckyar15:
Blowing gas by primers.



I'm far from being an expert, but that doesn't sound like a headspace problem. Sounds more like overpressure loads.

Tim
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:38:17 AM EDT
What loads were you using when you had the problem? factory or reloaded ammo? Bullet weights, powder, primers, etc? How did he check the HS? Did he strip the bolt to check the HS? Lotta unknowns that you should provide info on BEFORE you agree to ship the M1 to anyone. Charles the Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:56:39 AM EDT

Thanks for the response Charles....

Load was 48.0 IMR4064, 150 gr FMJ, WW Primer, LC 70's brass. My local gunsmith did disassemble the bolt and said it closed on field gauge with light pressure. He was using Forster gauges. CMP told me that accurate readings can only be obtained with Clymer gauges because of the shoulder angle? Could that be the problem?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:27:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 2:45:13 PM EDT by 1911builder]



EDIT TO ADD: My sincerest apologies to all of you well trained, schooled and educated 'experts'. I have no further comment.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:54:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911builder:
... the biggest cause of your problem is that IMR 4064 powder is too slow burning and builds up higher pressures than the M1 system can handle. Among other things, the operating rod will be bent by using more of these 4064 loads...




ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!

Stop smoking stuff that's illegal.

Kentucyar15:

Like I said before, I don't know what is causing your problem, but I can tell you what IS NOT causing it, and that is the load that you listed - that load should be safe, sane, and accurate in any Garand in firing condition.

While personally I use IMR4895, 4064 does have a reputation for very accurate loads in the M1.

Tim
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:17:00 PM EDT
Talk to Ronnie Morris @ Match Service Works in Madison TN. He will give you an honest appraisal of the situation.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:31:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand06:

Originally Posted By 1911builder:
... the biggest cause of your problem is that IMR 4064 powder is too slow burning and builds up higher pressures than the M1 system can handle. Among other things, the operating rod will be bent by using more of these 4064 loads...




ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!

Stop smoking stuff that's illegal.

Kentucyar1­5:

Like I said before, I don't know what is causing your problem, but I can tell you what IS NOT causing it, and that is the load that you listed - that load should be safe, sane, and accurate in any Garand in firing condition.

While personally I use IMR4895, 4064 does have a reputation for very accurate loads in the M1.

Tim



+1,

4064 is damn good stuff for a garand,,,,
esp. behind a 168SMK
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:12:26 PM EDT
Peasant, Would you have a phone number for Ronnie? He is not coming up in White or Yellow pages.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:54:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 5:04:36 PM EDT by Ralph]
I've got a set of Foster gages for xmas...Checked out my '03 '03A3 and my M1..neither of the bolts guns would close on a No-go gage, both have new bolt bodies in them that I bought at Perry this summer from Fulton Armory. Checking the M1 with a stripped bolt, the bolt would not close all the way with the No-Go gage about a 1/16 from bottoming out, The Field gage stopped slightly higher..In my opinion, I think the Foster gages will work just fine..If your rifle closes on field reject gage, your options are limited. Either find a bolt that will not close on field reject gage, or consider rebarreling the rifle. I remember reading over on the Jouster board on "Lane's Tips" that some bolts are slightly longer than others As I remember, -12 bolts are the shortest, -19 are a little longer -2 are supposed to be the longest, almost as long as a test bolt. Now I don't know for sure how much truth there is to all of this. Hopefully, someone here can confirm this, and possibly give you an idea of what to look for when shopping for a new bolt, if you decide to go that route. Is this a recently bought CMP gun?? Have you contacted them? They will help you if this the case, and very probably at no cost to you..

Edited to add; Go over the jouster forum and ask around for a gentleman named Gus Fisher, and tell him what you've told us here, He's a M1/M14 'smith with considerable know-how, he can probably narrow you're options down, and tell you what you can do. www.jouster.com
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:43:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911builder:


EDIT TO ADD: My sincerest apologies to all of you well trained, schooled and educated 'experts'.



No need to be rude just 'cause you were wrong!

I'm no expert, but I sure as h&ll am not stupid enough to throw out total and unabashed BS.

Tim

PS. I'm also man enough not to try to hide what I said by editing it out later.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:55:41 PM EDT
Rude behavior could be defined as calling someone's responses 'bullshit' and accusing them of smoking illegal drugs because your experience does not mirror their experience.

I do not agree that I 'lost'. I simply was trying to help KentuckyAR15. This help was based on 30+ years experience as a military armorer and more recently as a gunsmith, specilaizing in M1's, M14's M16's, M40 bolt rifles and 1911 pistols.

The loads that KAR15 listed exceed the maximum loads for IMR 4064 in the 5th edition Hornady reloading manual volume 1 dated 2000.

My experience as an armorer for USMC match rifle teams with the M1 has shown me that IMR 4064 and other slow burning powders cause problems in M1 rifles.

Do and believe as will, Garand06, I really don't give a shit what you think you know. I would bet that I have been a 'man' longer than you have been alive, boy.

Charles the Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:40:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 3:40:54 PM EDT by varoadking]

Originally Posted By 1911builder: I would bet that I have been a 'man' longer than you have been alive, boy.


Which qualifies you to be - what? Old?

BTW - drop a buck and buy a new book...the one you have is from the last century...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:22:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 4:24:12 PM EDT by Garand06]

Originally Posted By 1911builder:

The loads that KAR15 listed exceed the maximum loads for IMR 4064 in the 5th edition Hornady reloading manual volume 1 dated 2000.

My experience as an armorer for USMC match rifle teams with the M1 has shown me that IMR 4064 and other slow burning powders cause problems in M1 rifles.




I don't believe that for a second.

I only have the 4th ed. of that book and 48gr. is just barely above the STARTING load.

The following was "stolen" from The Firing Line:

From the NRA publication "The M1 Rifle"
Approxmate Mil duplication loads for 30-06.


These loads are for Commerical Cases
They recommend dropping these charges back 1.5 grains for mil cases.

147/150 gr Bullet
IMR3031 = 48gr
IMR4895 = 49gr
IMR4064 = 50gr

165/168 gr Bullet
IMR4895 = 47gr
IMR4064 = 48gr

I'm guessing that you put those USMC teams at a disadvantage.

Tim
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:29:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911builder:
I would bet that I have been a 'man' longer than you have been alive, boy.

Charles the Gunsmith.



If that is true, that makes you both old AND wrong.

Tim
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:28:37 PM EDT
Nice Charles,well done,bravo....etc etc.
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