I have a question, Im hope someone can answer.

I sent off my like new Mini to a "reputable" gunsmith who is at this board, to build my gun, adjustable gas block, trigger, fully bedded and pinned stock, high end barrel, ect. decked it out.
well, been goin to the range with it and some times it will print a nice group, other times its a freakn shot gun... when it does group they float around, when it takes to throwing rounds, they are all over the paper.

what the hell??

the scope/rings/mount is all tight and new good equipment, thats not the problem. the only thing I can even think of as a variable is the adjustable gas block. sometimes it drops the brass on the table, other times it throws it 30 feet! could this effect accuracy?

also Im not the only person that cant get a consistant group outta this gun, several of my friends have also shot it with the same results Im getting.

any help will be appreceiated!!
thanks

Assuming that it is not an "operator-related" problem, I would next look at ammo.
You didn't tell us what you are using for ammo.

If you aren't changing your gas setting between shots and your brass isn't going to the same place after shots, that tends to make me think you are using Wolf or some other sort of crap ammo.  Ammo with inconsistent charges or not seated consistently will not give conistent results.

Try using better quality ammo and experiment with different brands and bullet weights.

...and yes, I know I will be flooded with testimonials from people who will say Wolf ammo rocks and they can hit a fleas ass at 1000 yds with it, etc.

Wolf is about the cheapest ammo money can buy, and if you want to buy based on price alone, be my guest.  It will work for "plinking", but have realistic expectations.

People who call Wolf accurate are people who can't shoot well enough to know the difference!  Those people should shoot only Wolf !!  

Sounds like ammo.

You've eliminated the shooter by using multiple people. Tell me, do those people also occaissionally shoot well with the weapon?

If so, it's ammo.

Quoted: ...and yes, I know I will be flooded with testimonials from people who will say Wolf ammo rocks and they can hit a fleas ass at 1000 yds with it, etc. Wolf is about the cheapest ammo money can buy, and if you want to buy based on price alone, be my guest.  It will work for "plinking", but have realistic expectations. People who call Wolf accurate are people who can't shoot well enough to know the difference!  Those people should shoot only Wolf !!

ummm calm down, nobody but you said anything about wolf ammo.... spend 1200 bucks on a upgrade for my rifle and feed it that expecting <1moa outta it?.... pahleeze.

im shooting 3 different weights of blackhills ammo. boat tail hp, ballistic tip, and soft point, also the cheapo winchester hp  "valupack" ammo that the gunbuilder claims achieved the under 1 moa.

I have not touched the adjustable gas block since recieveing the rifle.

as far as "operator related" I would be looking down this road, except that 4 other people have also shot this weapon for accuracy and had same results, as stated in my first post

Why don't you call your gun builder up and ask him?

no response, Im guessing hes away for the holidays.

I would have to assume you have a gas block issue due to your unusual brass ejection problems. An out of the box AR15 will always be more accurate that the most "decked out" Mini 14 all day every day.


The best thing a Mini 14 ever did was star in the A-Team.

Just for giggles, I'd try some match grade stuff in it just to see if there's any improvement.

If match ammo won't at least be ejected into a nice pile and give a decent group, you definitely have a problem with the rifle.  I think you do anyway with all the different ammo you've tried.

Your builder might have some adjusting to do...Good luck with it.

First off, you need to shoot groups using the same ammo, and not switching ammo types.  Each time you switch ammo, the rifle is going to shoot to another POI.

Next, each time you shoot each type of ammo, you will need to adjust the gas system to just cycle the ammo on hand (read enough energy cycle and no more).

Quoted: An out of the box AR15 will always be more accurate that the most "decked out" Mini 14 all day every day.

RANT ON:

Ive been a lurker here for a long time, never bothered to register or post anything because it seems that in every thread some jackass has to jump in with his "your shit sucks, my shit is golden" line or the "your a dumbass for using that its not the latest greatest flipup,  modular, rail, light, QD, suppressed, short, hbar, reddot, blah, blah, and blah piece of gear that everybody else on the board thinks is cool at the moment." why people feel it necessary to do this so often on this board really bothers me, its like a bunch of 12 year olds playin on mommys computer and tryin to be important. its pathetic really.

either way I finally decided to throw my 2 cents into some of the threads here, and it only took 5 posts and on my first thread for it to happen to me. wow.

why, patriot, may I ask, that you felt it necessary to put that quote into this thread?

what is the relevance?

what was your reasoning?

do you always jump into threads and throw around outrageous bullshit lines like that, or was this your first time? or maybe your just padding your post count, thats prolly it right? cuz post count is the true mark of manhood.....

RANT OFF.

to the rest of you guys, thanks for the input and help.

Im really thinking the gas block has to be the culprit, all of my other autos make pretty nice piles of brass when shot from the bench, this one is just so erratic its gotta have something to do with it.

as for the ammo, Im gonna try some of my hand rolled loads that my ARs like and some good match factory Black hills ammo in the next couple of days.

thanks again.

Quoted: First off, you need to shoot groups using the same ammo, and not switching ammo types.  Each time you switch ammo, the rifle is going to shoot to another POI. Next, each time you shoot each type of ammo, you will need to adjust the gas system to just cycle the ammo on hand (read enough energy cycle and no more).

roger that Dano, I have been running about 30 rnds of each type trying to get a consistant group. everything just seems random.  Im with you on the just enough energy bit, but in say 10 rounds of the same ammo regardless  of type, some will land on the bench next to me, others will land 10 or more feet away.... seems like the gas block is adjusting itself, 'cause I know the ammo is good quality. as for POI, I dont really give a dam where its hitting, I just want it to hit there every shot.

Im gonna take your advice and tweedle with the gas block tomorrow just to see what happens.
thanks Dano

We were at Gunsite Training Center in 1998 taking the 223 Carbine Course.  One guy, a security type for the telescopes belonging to the University Of Arizona, had been sent to take the course.  His issue weapon was a mini 14 and he was required to use it in the course.  He did fine.  Gunsite instructors, on the whole, definitely suggest the AR15, but this guy shot his Mini 14 darn well.  Just to encourage you!
Aloha!
Jim

Quoted: Quoted: An out of the box AR15 will always be more accurate that the most "decked out" Mini 14 all day every day. RANT ON: Ive been a lurker here for a long time, never bothered to register or post anything because it seems that in every thread some jackass has to jump in with his "your shit sucks, my shit is golden" line or the "your a dumbass for using that its not the latest greatest flipup,  modular, rail, light, QD, suppressed, short, hbar, reddot, blah, blah, and blah piece of gear that everybody else on the board thinks is cool at the moment." why people feel it necessary to do this so often on this board really bothers me, its like a bunch of 12 year olds playin on mommys computer and tryin to be important. its pathetic really. either way I finally decided to throw my 2 cents into some of the threads here, and it only took 5 posts and on my first thread for it to happen to me. wow. why, patriot, may I ask, that you felt it necessary to put that quote into this thread? what is the relevance? what was your reasoning? do you always jump into threads and throw around outrageous bullshit lines like that, or was this your first time? or maybe your just padding your post count, thats prolly it right? cuz post count is the true mark of manhood..... RANT OFF. to the rest of you guys, thanks for the input and help. Im really thinking the gas block has to be the culprit, all of my other autos make pretty nice piles of brass when shot from the bench, this one is just so erratic its gotta have something to do with it. as for the ammo, Im gonna try some of my hand rolled loads that my ARs like and some good match factory Black hills ammo in the next couple of days. thanks again.

Mini 14 is pretty widely known as a uesless piece of shit throughout the entire firearms industry.  I'd venture to say that with a few exceptions that come from communist countries, it just might be the worst carbine on that market.  I'm not going to preach to you about what weapon is best, but I will just tell you right now that you need to recognize something.  The Mini-14 is not and never has been very accurate.  The AR platform is a combat proven rifle that is attempting to re-write firearm "rules" that state that only bolt guns are capable  of sub MOA accuracy at great distances.

I think you're absolutely insane to expect a mini-14 to be anything more than a plinker or short range hunting rifle.  Mini 14 accuracy?  Give me a fucking break.

I also suggest you grow a thicker skin if you expect to last long around here.  The kind of outburst I just quoted isn't necessary and isn't going to help you any.

Further, WTF is this crap doing in this forum anyway?  This is the M1 and M1A forum, aka, .30 caliber American battle rifles.  Why are we talking about a Mini 14 here?

Quoted: Mini 14 is pretty widely known as a uesless piece of shit throughout the entire firearms industry.  I'd venture to say that with a few exceptions that come from communist countries, it just might be the worst carbine on that market.   I think you're absolutely insane to expect a mini-14 to be anything more than a plinker or short range hunting rifle.  Mini 14 accuracy?  Give me a fucking break.

Insult removed.  Being provoked gives you no right to reply insultingly.  raf

Quoted: I'm not going to preach to you about what weapon is best

ummm actually thats all you do in your post.

Quoted: but I will just tell you right now that you need to recognize something.  The Mini-14 is not and never has been very accurate.  The AR platform is a combat proven rifle that is attempting to re-write firearm "rules" that state that only bolt guns are capable  of sub MOA accuracy at great distances.

In not trying to improve on the AR. never said I was. not even sure where you got that from.
never even asked your or anyones opinon about how great the gun is. or how it stacks up against the AR.

Quoted: I also suggest you grow a thicker skin if you expect to last long around here.  The kind of outburst I just quoted isn't necessary and isn't going to help you any.

talk about an outburst.....what pissed you off? that fact that I have less posts than you, or the idea of someone trying something different than what YOU THINK is the "latest greatest." heres an idea, if you dont like something, or arent interested in helping, why not mind your fukn business and keep your 2 cents to yourself and walk away?
how does this kind of bitchy, crybaby shit add to this forum community?

Quoted: Further, WTF is this crap doing in this forum anyway?  This is the M1 and M1A forum, aka, .30 caliber American battle rifles.  Why are we talking about a Mini 14 here?

have you actually ever looked at a Mini14? evidently not.

either way Timmy, Im sorry I ruined YOUR forum.

Quoted: Quoted: An out of the box AR15 will always be more accurate that the most "decked out" Mini 14 all day every day. RANT ON: Ive been a lurker here for a long time, never bothered to register or post anything because it seems that in every thread some jackass has to jump in with his "your shit sucks, my shit is golden" line or the "your a dumbass for using that its not the latest greatest flipup,  modular, rail, light, QD, suppressed, short, hbar, reddot, blah, blah, and blah piece of gear that everybody else on the board thinks is cool at the moment." why people feel it necessary to do this so often on this board really bothers me, its like a bunch of 12 year olds playin on mommys computer and tryin to be important. its pathetic really. either way I finally decided to throw my 2 cents into some of the threads here, and it only took 5 posts and on my first thread for it to happen to me. wow. why, patriot, may I ask, that you felt it necessary to put that quote into this thread? what is the relevance? what was your reasoning? do you always jump into threads and throw around outrageous bullshit lines like that, or was this your first time? or maybe your just padding your post count, thats prolly it right? cuz post count is the true mark of manhood..... RANT OFF. to the rest of you guys, thanks for the input and help. Im really thinking the gas block has to be the culprit, all of my other autos make pretty nice piles of brass when shot from the bench, this one is just so erratic its gotta have something to do with it. as for the ammo, Im gonna try some of my hand rolled loads that my ARs like and some good match factory Black hills ammo in the next couple of days. thanks again.

Man, I have really been upsetting folks lately which I really don't mean to do. I am an opiniated person, yes. I like to state my opinions, yes and I love the site and love stating my opinions here about shooting, politics, etc.

I have developed a bad reputation I think with some here and I regret that. I guess with this post I was wondering why anyone would put such effort into a Mini 14 trying to make a match grade shooter, which is, by all accounts not easily done.

Mini 14's are reliable enough but have for many years have had a poor reputation for accuracy while shooting an inherently accurate round.

I shot a Mini 14 from the time I was about ten years old until recently when I sold it. It was purchased by my late Father around 1980. I always loved shooting it growing up, but never expected it to be an ultra accurate shooter.

My statement that an out-of-the box AR has the upperhand on accuracy against a Mini is gospel. The AR has dominated all match circuits from the National Matches all the way down for the last two decades or so.

I guess I need to curtail my tone on the site, which I have tried to do. I always looked at the site as a place to be a guy, kinda ribbing each other and just doing what men have done about guns, fishing, hunting, cars and women for ages, argue and throw hyperbole at each other.

In the age of man purses and Dr. Phil, it seems we must be ultra sensitive everywhere we go and with everyone I speak to.

I grew up shooting and hunting and on rifle ranges. Shooting has been in my family for decades. I would go as a kid with my Dad and Grandfathers to the range and I grew up watching guys give opinions and each other a ribbing.

The Mini 14 is not the piece of crap that my young pal Tim84k10 states it is. He is young and enthusiastic and he too has opinions. At times, Tim can be a mouth but he is learning lots about guns and sometimes just needs a calm talking to and he cools out. As a Dad of three, I know this tactic well.

Tim, research the "Ollie North Special" is regards to the war in Nicaragua. Also, investigate the role Reagan, Bill Ruger and even Bob Dole had in that fiasco and get back to me, you will find it amazingly interesting IF you can find any info on the subject.

I have been asked once via private IM by Raf to tone it down in an argument, and out of respect for others and authority, I did just that. However, my comments have never seemed to upset site staff. So, I will continue to state my opinion in this "free republic" we live within. I will try to be more sensitive as to not upset our newest and most sensitive team members.

I love this site. I have obtained volumes of knowledge here and made several friends. I think my name has gotten out there and it is fashionable these days to jump on patriot73's ass. That does suck.

I hope you get your rifle fixed, I am sure you will.

Happy New Year M1/M1A forumn brothers.

Sounds like a gas problem to me.  Ejection should be consistant.  Just cause I'm wondering....is it a new version or old version Mini?  Also may want to try perfectunion.com.

Sounds like a Ruger problem to me.
Trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Quoted: Trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Nail hit squarely on the head right there.

Does the problem grow worse as the barrel heats up? Is the action secure in the bedding? Might something be too tight or too loose? Don't get discouraged, before i could afford an AR I used a Mini for years and found them to be reliable and adequate in the accuracy dept, about 4" at 100 yards with a cool barrel. I would'nt want to step in front of one, nor would the FBI any more. Dropped two deer with mine, sold it after shooting thousands of rounds through it without a failure.

I'm make it easy for you guys that want to piss on the Ruger Mini's.

I will put up the title on a built Mini-14 against any of your Ar-15's in 223 for a 20 round straight group.  Tightest group takes both guns home.
Note: I'll will print sub MOA for the 20 round group, so you better pack yourself an extra diaper to wipe away the tears as you watch your rifle leave with me.

Point blank, the mini-14 rifles have their problems, but is nothing that cannot be corrected.

Sounds like the gas block to me.  I had a mini and sold it for the usual issues to get a ar-15, it is a good reliable weopon most of the time, the barrel you had done should make moa I would think.

And i get moa all day long with my RRA's and wolf.

MDP

Quoted: I'm make it easy for you guys that want to piss on the Ruger Mini's. I will put up the title on a built Mini-14 against any of your Ar-15's in 223 for a 20 round straight group.  Tightest group takes both guns home. Note: I'll will print sub MOA for the 20 round group, so you better pack yourself an extra diaper to wipe away the tears as you watch your rifle leave with me. Point blank, the mini-14 rifles have their problems, but is nothing that cannot be corrected.

This has been an extremely interesting thread, despite all the name-calling and dick-waving. Or maybe because of it!

Dano, I don't doubt that your "built" Mini will shoot sub-MOA. I don't want to take your challenge. But I'd like to know how much money you have in the gun--gun itself, all parts and accessories, plus what it cost you to get it "built."

I've got a FrankenAR that I built last year from all new parts (RRA midlength upper, EA cast lower, "lowest bidder" lower parts) that will print just under 1 MOA with generic ammo. I have just a couple bucks over $500 in this gun, as I said starting from scratch. USED Minis start at about four pigs in my area. No way I could get one printing anywhere near MOA for another hundred bucks.

Not trying to be a smartass, just wondering what your MOA Mini cost.

Believe it or not, I'd like to own a Mini, but have always thought they were overpriced for the accuracy they deliver. If I ever run across one for less than three, I'm all over it, and I'll tinker with its accuracy from there.

BTW, the new Ranch Rifles are supposed to do 2MOA or better out of the box, but list on them is $750 and I have yet to see my first one. I got enough ARs that I sure don't need a $700+ Mini.

+1

I've always wanted a mini but they just seemed a bit overpriced. And I love Rugers, got a couple of 10/22's and a few pistols of theirs too.

The only problem with Ruger... from their website...

Rugers Website
Their slogan is "Arms makers for responsible citizens"...

this from the company that was first to cave to anti-gun pressure and not sell high caps
or evil folding stocks.

This from the company that even though the ban ended still refuses to sell any high cap mags to civilians.

So.. if I buy a Bushmaster I'm not responsible because I buy black rifles?  What about an AK ?
I guess in Ruger's corporate political eyes that makes me Patrick Purdy's bro ?

The hubris of a company to make that statement and the implications that go along with it.
Especially based on their proven track record of having absolutely no balls when it comes to standing up for the 2nd Amendment.

Piss on Bill Ruger's grave and his company. I wont buy crap from them...
With friends like that, who needs American's for Gun Safety, Dianne Feinstein et al?

So, your Mini-14s may shoot MOA or they may not, but know your money should go to support a company that would be willing to support your rights.

Sorry, but Ruger pisses me off...

Quoted: I'm make it easy for you guys that want to piss on the Ruger Mini's. I will put up the title on a built Mini-14 against any of your Ar-15's in 223 for a 20 round straight group.  Tightest group takes both guns home. Note: I'll will print sub MOA for the 20 round group, so you better pack yourself an extra diaper to wipe away the tears as you watch your rifle leave with me. Point blank, the mini-14 rifles have their problems, but is nothing that cannot be corrected.

Now that's funny and true.

I wish Ruger would sell a National Match version that could do it out of the box.

Quoted: I'm make it easy for you guys that want to piss on the Ruger Mini's. I will put up the title on a built Mini-14 against any of your Ar-15's in 223 for a 20 round straight group.  Tightest group takes both guns home. Note: I'll will print sub MOA for the 20 round group, so you better pack yourself an extra diaper to wipe away the tears as you watch your rifle leave with me. Point blank, the mini-14 rifles have their problems, but is nothing that cannot be corrected.

A twenty round group?

As long as we can put my AR in a vice and your Mini-14 in a vice I'll take you up on it.  I don't want your rifle though, give me whatever it's worth in cash to you.

Quoted: As long as we can put my AR in a vice and your Mini-14 in a vice I'll take you up on it.  I don't want your rifle though, give me whatever it's worth in cash to you.

Come on Tim. Time to "Buck up".

Take him up on it. Make it a postal match. I'll be an Illinois witness .I'm sure Patriot will be too. As the issuer of the challenge Dano523 can set the particulars for time and distance ( 100 Yards I'm sure) .  If the participants can agree on the format and witnesses ( Maybe our state forum mods can chime in here.)

We can send the targets to a MOD for scoring.

An AR15.com challenge "Racing for Pinks"

Don't back out now. This is getting interesting.


JR

Not familiar with a postal match.  Like I said, with both in a vice, it'd be funny.

I'm curious to see what has been, "corrected" though.

A postal match is a long distance match of sorts, engaged in by gentlemen operating within the confines of the honor system who shoot in different places and mail their targets in to the match organizer. Ordinarily it is a fun way to shoot for score against shooters from other states. C& R  and Garand shooters do them a lot.

In this case it is a great way to put up or shut up. It sounds like Dano is game.

Given the agreed upon distance ( MOA should be shot at 100 yards) and time frame ( how many mins to shoot 20 rds) The competitors and in this case witnesses to insure strict adherence to time and distance rules. fire their 20 on a target. The target could be numbered or other wise marked and mailed by an impartial Mod who will later receive and score the targets to determine the winner. Hence "Postal".


Are you ready to rumble!

JR

Quoted: Quoted: As long as we can put my AR in a vice and your Mini-14 in a vice I'll take you up on it.  I don't want your rifle though, give me whatever it's worth in cash to you. Come on Tim. Time to "Buck up". Take him up on it. Make it a postal match. I'll be an Illinois witness .I'm sure Patriot will be too. As the issuer of the challenge Dano523 can set the particulars for time and distance ( 100 Yards I'm sure) .  If the participants can agree on the format and witnesses ( Maybe our state forum mods can chime in here.) We can send the targets to a MOD for scoring. An AR15.com challenge "Racing for Pinks" Don't back out now. This is getting interesting. JR

Great idea!

But I'm in favor of them using the vise. I couldn't care less who out of two internet personas that I have never met can out shoot the other. Let's make it Ar15 vs Mini 14.

Same ammo would be a requirement. No handloads. Indoor ranges could eliminate other variables.

I've witheld my opinion while reading this thread for quite some time now, mainly due to the fact that others have posted similar thoughts. I don't think anyone started out dogging the mini but jeez, there is no comparison between the mini and the ar. The ar is superior by design. I had a mini, enoyed it, and moved on. If I had one now I doubt that I would sell it, but there is no incentive for me to buy one either.

Quoted: Quoted: As long as we can put my AR in a vice and your Mini-14 in a vice I'll take you up on it.  I don't want your rifle though, give me whatever it's worth in cash to you. Come on Tim. Time to "Buck up". Take him up on it. Make it a postal match. I'll be an Illinois witness .I'm sure Patriot will be too. As the issuer of the challenge Dano523 can set the particulars for time and distance ( 100 Yards I'm sure) .  If the participants can agree on the format and witnesses ( Maybe our state forum mods can chime in here.) We can send the targets to a MOD for scoring. An AR15.com challenge "Racing for Pinks" Don't back out now. This is getting interesting. JR

I am so up for this. I will witness, or join the match.  I also think it should be held at McMiller in Eagle WI or at Buffalo.

I will shoot my home built 20"
DSA lower
CMT Upper and Bolt Group
Bravo Company 1/7 chromelined govt profile barrel w/ phanton
Standard 20 round GI mag

Bench rest, sandbags only.

Through the irons only 100 yds with LC M855, I'll bring the ammo.

If Dano prefers 55 grain, that's fine, I will swap to 1/9

Tim, do you and I cut the Mini in half and each take a section when this brutal commencement of ass whooping takes place? Or.......do we list it on the EE in exchange for some ammo?

I am so in and ready for this.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As long as we can put my AR in a vice and your Mini-14 in a vice I'll take you up on it.  I don't want your rifle though, give me whatever it's worth in cash to you. Come on Tim. Time to "Buck up". Take him up on it. Make it a postal match. I'll be an Illinois witness .I'm sure Patriot will be too. As the issuer of the challenge Dano523 can set the particulars for time and distance ( 100 Yards I'm sure) .  If the participants can agree on the format and witnesses ( Maybe our state forum mods can chime in here.) We can send the targets to a MOD for scoring. An AR15.com challenge "Racing for Pinks" Don't back out now. This is getting interesting. JR Great idea! But I'm in favor of them using the vise. I couldn't care less who out of two internet personas that I have never met can out shoot the other. Let's make it Ar15 vs Mini 14.

Sounds cool to me.

AR15 vs. Mini 14 is like Jesus vs. Deuce Bigalow

Quoted: [AR15 vs. Mini 14 is like Jesus vs. Deuce Bigalow

I can see why someone who owns a Mini would get tired of the slagging they take around here, but the thread creator over-reacted when the FACT was stated that an out-of-the-box AR is better than a built Mini. The truth is the truth. I seriously considered buying a Mini for a [very] short time. But the AR won that debate very quickly and I haven't looked back.

Also, I LOVE Ruger's .22 rifles and pistols. They are the best IMO. And I'm fond of the M77 bolt guns. But I am NOT fond of the Mini... and I downright DESPISE Ruger's attitude toward the 2nd Ammendment and/or EBR's as mentioned in a previous post.

The new issue of Gun World has a writeup on the new, improved Ranch Rifle. Scoped, at 100 yards, the BEST group it shot was just under 3". And the author raved about how it was SO much more accurate than any of the old ones he'd ever shot!

I think my built-up-from-parts M1 carbine will shoot 3" at 100, or darn close to it. And I sure don't have anywhere near $750 in it!

I have two ARs and a Mini and I love all of 'em but I am more than sure that both ARs are more accurate. That said, I hope that if this contest comes about that it doesn't produce bad feelings along with a winner and a loser. We have enough bullshit dissension on other parts of ARFCOM without the The Armory •  M1 & M1A • stooping to a low.

Quoted: The new issue of Gun World has a writeup on the new, improved Ranch Rifle. Scoped, at 100 yards, the BEST group it shot was just under 3". And the author raved about how it was SO much more accurate than any of the old ones he'd ever shot! I think my built-up-from-parts M1 carbine will shoot 3" at 100, or darn close to it. And I sure don't have anywhere near $750 in it!

Yeah, I picked up that issue today also.  You know, I can't remember reading a gun magazine review where the review actually criticized the product they reviewed.

A 3 inch group?  My Romanian AK knock off can do that!

Quoted: You know, I can't remember reading a gun magazine review where the review actually criticized the product they reviewed.

Quoted: AR15 vs. Mini 14 is like Jesus vs. Deuce Bigalow

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

I'd definitely take you up on using your 20" and we can sell his Mini and buy ammo (.308 sound good?)

Quoted: Quoted: AR15 vs. Mini 14 is like Jesus vs. Deuce Bigalow I don't care who you are, that's funny right there. I'd definitely take you up on using your 20" and we can sell his Mini and buy ammo (.308 sound good?)

I'll give you $350 for his Mini sight unseen.

If it actually puts 20 rounds into under an inch, I'll go $400.

Quoted: Quoted: AR15 vs. Mini 14 is like Jesus vs. Deuce Bigalow I don't care who you are, that's funny right there. I'd definitely take you up on using your 20" and we can sell his Mini and buy ammo (.308 sound good?)

Yep .308 sounds good to me.

I agree with Timmy there should be no Ruger talk in the M1 and M1A forum.

 Normally I would say what a POS the mini is but I just got my account unlocked.

Quoted: I'm make it easy for you guys that want to piss on the Ruger Mini's. I will put up the title on a built Mini-14 against any of your Ar-15's in 223 for a 20 round straight group.  Tightest group takes both guns home. Note: I'll will print sub MOA for the 20 round group, so you better pack yourself an extra diaper to wipe away the tears as you watch your rifle leave with me.

Dano, I hope you will do this. It would be great if you could smoke em.

It's your challenge so scope out the specs of your rifle, ammo and match conditions.

As far as taking on multiple shooters, that is your call. It would be your right to make it just one guy ( this first to accept the challenge was Tim84K10.)

RAF are you comfortable being the impartial scoring party or can another MOD step in?

Shooting for pinks. Gotta be an ARF.com first.


JR

Quoted: To make this proposal fairer, the AR should have a barrel of approximately the same length as the Mini.  Sight radius as well, unless you are both using the exact, same optics, or very close to it. For example, a guy with a decent scope will probably shoot somewhat smaller groups than a guy with a red-dot, all other things being equal. Oh, and what about triggers?  If one has a Match grade trigger, and the other doesn't, isn't that an advantage, maybe a big advantage? Just a few thoughts...

Naw man, you're missing the point. Dano wants to shoot for the pink slips of his unreveiled mini vs whoever's whatever ar.

Yes, it is a bold move and should be carried out as proposed.

edited to add: I feel only the shooting conditions, ammo, and shooter (vice) should be kept consistent.

Quoted: Quoted: To make this proposal fairer, the AR should have a barrel of approximately the same length as the Mini.  Sight radius as well, unless you are both using the exact, same optics, or very close to it. For example, a guy with a decent scope will probably shoot somewhat smaller groups than a guy with a red-dot, all other things being equal. Oh, and what about triggers?  If one has a Match grade trigger, and the other doesn't, isn't that an advantage, maybe a big advantage? Just a few thoughts... Naw man, you're missing the point. Dano wants to shoot for the pink slips of his unreveiled mini vs whoever's whatever ar. Yes, it is a bold move and should be carried out as proposed. edited to add: I feel only the shooting conditions, ammo, and shooter (vice) should be kept consistent.

See if you can get a Notary to stamp the target/witness it.  I am a FL notary and would do it, so I am sure someone else will too.  You can 'pay' them with food or some shooting

Ruger's can make you a bit crazy. My SS Mini 14 Ranch typically will shoot 4 out of 5 shots in a 1 to 1 1/2 inch group and one of the 5 will be 3 or 4 inches away from the group. It is not always the same shot in the string. I wait at least 1 minute between shots and usually longer on the last two shots to avoid barrel heat - I have used Black Hills, Win, Rem, Silver Bear and Federal ammo of various bullet weights with similar results - 62 gr. and heavier is better. My friend has shot the rifle with similar results. It has an 8X scope on it so the target is relatively easy to see. I have not spent money to upgrade the rifle - it came with a laminated stock. I can live with the perfomance as the rifle is fun to shoot and accuracy would be deadly at 150 - 200 yards - however I know the rifle can shoot very accurate and want it to shoot that way every shot.