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Posted: 12/7/2005 12:42:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 12:45:32 PM EDT by Red_Label]
Help me understand why Springfield is choosing to allow their QC to go down the tubes and for their name to be considered a joke post-year-2000.

I realize that they are all out-of forged USGI parts and are now using cast parts. Why? There are many companies out there still forging receivers for other weapons. Why can't Springfield get the proper equipment to do it? Is the forging part of the equation the main problem with Springfield? If not, what other issues are there? If it all boils down to the fact that it's cheaper to cast parts than it is to forge them, then is Springfield going to become a big joke and/or stay that way forever all to save a few bucks in production costs? I just don't understand why such a well-known name is settling for a "crap" reputation these days...


BTW... I ask this because I still have a NIB SAI M1A on lay-away and all these threads about exploding bolts out of the box are scaring the crap out of me. There's a new one over in GD about a SOCOM biting the dust several times.

ETA: I guess I'm a bit "funny" in that I DEMAND that when I spend $1400 on something that it not be total crap.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 1:48:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 1:49:13 PM EDT by DOW]
$.
QC has been an issue for some time now with SA Inc. My guess is they just don't care.

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 1:51:40 PM EDT
The cast receivers aren't the problem; it's the cast parts. FWIW, there are tens of thousands of cast SAI receivers out there, and Boston T. Party is the only person I've ever heard of having a cast receiver get stretched.

I wish SAI would put more QC into their rifles. For the money they charge, they could go to Orion, Amherst, or other parts vendors and buy up all their small parts.

The exploding bolt issue is solved rather easily: Get a USGI extractor and toss the SAI extractor.

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 1:54:58 PM EDT
Sa Inc has been using a forged bolt for some time now....
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:08:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
The cast receivers aren't the problem; it's the cast parts. FWIW, there are tens of thousands of cast SAI receivers out there, and Boston T. Party is the only person I've ever heard of having a cast receiver get stretched.

I wish SAI would put more QC into their rifles. For the money they charge, they could go to Orion, Amherst, or other parts vendors and buy up all their small parts.

The exploding bolt issue is solved rather easily: Get a USGI extractor and toss the SAI extractor.




So the exploding bolt is caused by the SAI extractor? That's good to know. Now I know why it's so important to do that swap probably before anything else. Part of the reason that I've stayed the course so far (despite much negative SAI press) is the recommendations of some here (chiefly DIFFERENT) that the new Springfield stuff is okay if you swat-out a few parts and shim the cylinder. Would you recommend that if I go ahead and still get this gun, that I swap-out that extractor ASAP (maybe even before shooting it the first time)?
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:14:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 2:14:33 PM EDT by H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Would you recommend that if I go ahead and still get this gun, that I swap-out that extractor ASAP (maybe even before shooting it the first time)?



Yes.

Have a GI extractor ready to go when you pick up your new rifle.

Take it home - strip it down, clean it, swap the extractor, grease it
up and go to the range with quality ammo an at least two USGI mags.

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighPowerShooter:
Sa Inc has been using a forged bolt for some time now....



Can anyone confirm this? I hadn't heard it and was under the impression that everything is cast these days. I hope you are right about this. Cause I still want the dang thing no matter how scared I get...
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:18:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
Yes.

Have a GI extractor ready to go when you pick up your new rifle.

Take it home - strip it down, clean it, swap the extractor, grease it
up and go to the range with quality ammo an at least two USGI mags.




I know that Different has posted the link before of where to get the extractors. Do you happen to have that link? If so I may just go ahead and order an extractor. I already have 6 USGI mags on the way from Armalite.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:33:22 PM EDT
If you don't luck out and the bolt is not G.I.,there will be a 7 digit number-sa and underneath it will be another series that begins with a letter.That letter means A = cast, B = machined from bar stock and F = forged.None of these were the ones exploding however"The bolts in question are marked as follows: No numerical or alphabetical characteristics on either top or back of bolt (completely unmarked). Any bolt with any numerical or alphabetical markings at all on the back of the bolt. Any bolt with the top marked "7790185" and with "SA RRR" centered below that number. Any bolt with the top marked "790185" and with "SA" centered below that number. Springfield Armory, Inc. regrets any inconvenience caused by the return of any firearm affected by this notice.".This bad batch of bolts happened in the 80's so the chances are slim to none that your new rifle will have one.There was an issue with the SA cast extractors breaking but you may or may not have this problem.Just buy a G.I. replacement and shoot until you need to replace it.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 2:42:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 2:46:48 PM EDT by H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
Yes.

Have a GI extractor ready to go when you pick up your new rifle.

Take it home - strip it down, clean it, swap the extractor, grease it
up and go to the range with quality ammo an at least two USGI mags.




I know that Different has posted the link before of where to get the extractors. Do you happen to have that link? If so I may just go ahead and order an extractor. I already have 6 USGI mags on the way from Armalite.



Check here : billricca.com/

I think the extractor for the M1 and M14 are the same.

S10 Extractor (Late Issue).....…...................…
Works fine with caliber .30, preferred design for 7.62mm
ammunition. Produced at Springfield Armory in 1965.

S11 Extractor Spring & Plunger assay. .............
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:46:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
The cast receivers aren't the problem; it's the cast parts. FWIW, there are tens of thousands of cast SAI receivers out there, and Boston T. Party is the only person I've ever heard of having a cast receiver get stretched.

I wish SAI would put more QC into their rifles. For the money they charge, they could go to Orion, Amherst, or other parts vendors and buy up all their small parts.

The exploding bolt issue is solved rather easily: Get a USGI extractor and toss the SAI extractor.



I understand that, but I think his point is, why shouldn't it be good to go from the start?

To me, it seem silly to buy a rifle, then automatically pour another hundred into it to replace critical parts with USGI ones after having spent well above $1000 for the rifle in the first place.

I have no beef in all these accusations....

But I am saving up for an LRB......

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 5:21:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 5:24:48 PM EDT by Dawg180]

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
The cast receivers aren't the problem; it's the cast parts. FWIW, there are tens of thousands of cast SAI receivers out there, and Boston T. Party is the only person I've ever heard of having a cast receiver get stretched.

I wish SAI would put more QC into their rifles. For the money they charge, they could go to Orion, Amherst, or other parts vendors and buy up all their small parts.

The exploding bolt issue is solved rather easily: Get a USGI extractor and toss the SAI extractor.



I understand that, but I think his point is, why shouldn't it be good to go from the start?

To me, it seem silly to buy a rifle, then automatically pour another hundred into it to replace critical parts with USGI ones after having spent well above $1000 for the rifle in the first place.

I have no beef in all these accusations....

But I am saving up for an LRB......




I saw the numbers posted on one of the M14 boards as to how much it costs SA to make a rifle...apparently using cast parts they only make about $300 per rifle on a $1200 M1A. If they were to spend the $$$ to produce forged op rods, recivers, etc, etc someone estimated the rifle would cost $1800-2000 and at that point you might aas well get a custom built one done from collected USGI parts. M1A's are by no means the erector set rifle the AR-15 has come to be, the forgings take A LOT of machining work to make. IIRC, there still are three machining operations on the M14/M1A receiver which cannot be done by a machine even today.

The truth is 90% of gun buyers don't know the difference, and SA has a very good warranty and repair process so in the end they continue to sell rifles despite what a few of us at AR15.com are displeased with. Until people stop buying their rifles my guess is they will continue to be made with cast parts.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 5:47:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By HighPowerShooter:
Sa Inc has been using a forged bolt for some time now....



Can anyone confirm this? I hadn't heard it and was under the impression that everything is cast these days. I hope you are right about this. Cause I still want the dang thing no matter how scared I get...



The SAI bolts that have a second line beginning with F are forged. I have one. 5500+ shots fired and it is barely worn. The bolt face looks brand new.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 5:49:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
snip..


The truth is 90% of gun buyers don't know the difference, and SA has a very good warranty and repair process so in the end they continue to sell rifles despite what a few of us at AR15.com are displeased with. Until people stop buying their rifles my guess is they will continue to be made with cast parts.



I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 6:32:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.




You are probably right. And there's no guarantee that I'll be putting many more rounds than that through mine. I LOVE to shoot and pay for an annual membership for a range close by so I can shoot more, but the fact is that I can't afford to shoot ANY of my guns more than several hundred rounds a year except for my Ruger .22's.

Nevertheless, I intend to shoot my M1A enough to feel like I can rely on it in a SHTF situation. So I'm going to dump as many rounds through it as possible as soon as possible after replacing the extractor and maybe shimming the gas cylinder.



Thanks for all the input on this guys. I hate being such a whiner and hand-wringer over buying an M1A. But $1400 isn't something I have in my pocket at any given time and this is a very big deal to me. I wish I could talk myself into buying a FAL and that way would probably be more likely satisfied. But the things are fugly, and they don't fit the purpose I see for them. (And my dealer doesn't sell them.)



Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:01:43 PM EDT
No worries, man.You'll get one and fall in love.Then someone will let you shoot their Fal at the range and you'll be even more convinced.Even IF you have a problem,Springfield Armory has THE BEST warranty.For the life of the rifle (not owner,not original purchaser,that's right life of the rifle)pretty much forever.And they are very good at honoring that warranty.I suggest you check out some of the M14 specific boards,alot of knowledge to be had.M14 Forum is one of my personal favorites.Battle Rifles and War Rifles are good too.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:27:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 10:30:35 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
Yes.

Have a GI extractor ready to go when you pick up your new rifle.

Take it home - strip it down, clean it, swap the extractor, grease it
up and go to the range with quality ammo an at least two USGI mags.




I know that Different has posted the link before of where to get the extractors. Do you happen to have that link? If so I may just go ahead and order an extractor. I already have 6 USGI mags on the way from Armalite.



Check here : billricca.com/

I think the extractor for the M1 and M14 are the same.

S10 Extractor (Late Issue).....…...................…
Works fine with caliber .30, preferred design for 7.62mm
ammunition. Produced at Springfield Armory in 1965.

S11 Extractor Spring & Plunger assay. .............




Thanks man! I am going to go-ahead and order this today so I can replace as soon as I get my M1A next month.

ETA: Oops... I guess I'll order on Monday as it seems that Bill likes 3-day weekends.


P.S. Do you think it'd be a good idea to order an extra set of S10 and S11? Or would the new ones that I pull-out of the gun be a good enough backup?
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 4:42:59 PM EDT
Get an extra extractor from Bill.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:31:40 PM EDT
Good info , I hadnt known where to get these things .
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:26:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 6:27:25 PM EDT by Joker18]
I just bought my M1A. It's odd (or maybe coincidence) that this thread talked about QC. I always shoot my barrels in by firing a shot, brushing/cleaning the bore and so on for about 20 rounds. It seems to have worked with my other rifles. One thing I noticed; after the fifth shot I found the gas cylinder plug was loose enough that I could unscrew it with my fingers. I also noticed that some of the primers on the spent casings were protruding just a hair over the base of the casing. It wasn't enough that it alarmed me, but they weren't exactly flush either. That would stink to have a headspace problem on a new rifle. I was shooting new fresh Wolf 150 grain bullets. I know they are Berdan primed and I wonder if it is just an anomoly with the Wolf ammo. I haven't fired any of my hunting bullets (Winchester Supreme 168 Gr. Ballistic Silvertip) yet to compare. Other than that the rifle worked like a dream. I also discovered I have a forged bolt thanks to the info shared above. One thing for sure; follow through is real important with a 16" barrel.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:07:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.



That's all some of them can afford to shoot. They have their paychecks deposited directly to Smith Enterprise so they can pay for them to keep their rifle stored in Arizona for half the year while someone bolts on the latest geegaw.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:54:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 10:56:40 PM EDT by Different]

Originally Posted By Joker18:
I just bought my M1A. It's odd (or maybe coincidence) that this thread talked about QC. I always shoot my barrels in by firing a shot, brushing/cleaning the bore and so on for about 20 rounds. It seems to have worked with my other rifles. One thing I noticed; after the fifth shot I found the gas cylinder plug was loose enough that I could unscrew it with my fingers. I also noticed that some of the primers on the spent casings were protruding just a hair over the base of the casing. It wasn't enough that it alarmed me, but they weren't exactly flush either. That would stink to have a headspace problem on a new rifle. I was shooting new fresh Wolf 150 grain bullets. I know they are Berdan primed and I wonder if it is just an anomoly with the Wolf ammo. I haven't fired any of my hunting bullets (Winchester Supreme 168 Gr. Ballistic Silvertip) yet to compare. Other than that the rifle worked like a dream. I also discovered I have a forged bolt thanks to the info shared above. One thing for sure; follow through is real important with a 16" barrel.



If you bought this rifle NIB, there should be a factory headspace tag inside the box. This tag will state what the headspace was when it left the factory. If you buy any brand of rifle used, it's a good idea to check the headspace to see what you have. Springfield Armory, Inc. typically headspaces its M1A rifles between 1.631 " to 1.633 " which meets SAAMI specification for .308 Winchster.

If the rifle is NIB, I agree, the gas cylinder plug should not be finger loose. But that's a simple matter to fix.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 5:10:50 AM EDT
You know, In my humble opinion it's not really a Springfield Armory QC problem, rather a generational problem. The current generation of folks running the show (Babyboomers). Have destroyed brand names from Motorola to Ford to KMart to Springfield Armory Inc.

The name of the game seems to be to do the least amount of work possible while making the most amount of money possible AND all the while crabbing about how hard you have worked.

SA, Inc bolts from what I understand are cast somewhere like Bosnia? They used to be a top flight company, like Colt once was. But once greed and laziness is introuduced, companies that are decades and sometimes centuries old are ruined.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 6:47:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:
You know, In my humble opinion it's not really a Springfield Armory QC problem, rather a generational problem. The current generation of folks running the show (Babyboomers). Have destroyed brand names from Motorola to Ford to KMart to Springfield Armory Inc.

The name of the game seems to be to do the least amount of work possible while making the most amount of money possible AND all the while crabbing about how hard you have worked.

SA, Inc bolts from what I understand are cast somewhere like Bosnia? They used to be a top flight company, like Colt once was. But once greed and laziness is introuduced, companies that are decades and sometimes centuries old are ruined.



Thats a good point . I just bought a CurtisMathers TV fromKmart @$250 .

When I was a young man they were top of the line high $ TV .
It's market economicis but then at some point it does (or has become) a cultural thing . All about $$$ to companies that are in it just for $'s , TV's , Cars , Guns ..........
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 7:33:11 PM EDT
My advice. Put your new extractor in, get a bunch of ammo and shoot the piss out of it. If money is an issue, buy some surplus ammo. After 1000 rounds or so, you'll start to know if it's got any week spots. It doesn't pay to worry about it now, because ALOT of them run fine, right out of the box. Somebody in the AR section just had a bushmaster bolt blow up and they're supposed to be high quality. It happens. That's why if it's a SHTF rifle, you got to put it through it's paces and get spare parts. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:21:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:


I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.



Hell, I did that last sunday alone.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 11:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.



That's all some of them can afford to shoot. They have their paychecks deposited directly to Smith Enterprise so they can pay for them to keep their rifle stored in Arizona for half the year while someone bolts on the latest geegaw.



Classic.That'd make a good sig line if I just cared enough to have a sig line.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 11:15:45 PM EDT
this thread has made me reexamine my intent to purchase a springfield SOCOM M1A .. I hate to spend 1400 on a pile of crap ....
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:54:09 AM EDT
Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A standard model M1A catalog # MA9101 2005 MSRP - $1486.00 Reference: www.springfield-armory.com

LRB Arms M14SA rack grade (all USGI parts except receiver and Criterion standard contour barrel) 2005 MSRP - $2289.00 Reference: Personal observation of rifles in stock at LRB Sales (Bellerose, NY) on December 05, 2005.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:06:43 AM EDT
Let me preface this with... I have owned 3 different Springy M1As and I have loved them all. Still looking for a nnice Devine one though.

Yeah Springfield is honestly still a converted dairy farm. They grew too fast for their own good. They do have some great guns but the price honestly does not match the quality. The older springfields from early days of the company were realy great due to the fact the GI parts were around in abundance. (that they were buying for scrap prices) So having offshore castings done for them is not a new thing remember all of the BRAZIL 1911 frames then selling them as GI (mil spec style )45s. And the whole Croatia connection now is just the same thing. To call it american Iron is far from honest. They are no different than motorola or any other company I would dare anybody To prove that they even have considered having any American cast their parts for them. It would not make sense!!!! They are smart and cunning buissness people. I comend them for that. That is why they have castings made overseas. they manufacture them here buy having the finish machining done but the steel is not American. Honestly I would prefer a polytech frame. I am glad that REAL US frames are being made by LBR or whomever. I hope they do well enough with their line to extend it to other parts. I have no problem with paying an American who will use American parts to build an American rifle. If sprinfield is honestly so damn awsome why the hell did uncle sugar get ron smith to build the crazy horse for them, instead of the big bad ass m-14 godz springfield. Well i would dare to say that the SA are not really up to spec. But call me crazy as I hope you all do.

Cheers guys
james
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:30:28 AM EDT

If sprinfield is honestly so damn awsome why the hell did uncle sugar get ron smith to build the crazy horse for them


Low bidder...
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:56:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 7:08:21 AM EDT by Different]

Originally Posted By jimlostt:
Let me preface this with... I have owned 3 different Springy M1As and I have loved them all. Still looking for a nnice Devine one though.

Yeah Springfield is honestly still a converted dairy farm. They grew too fast for their own good. They do have some great guns but the price honestly does not match the quality. The older springfields from early days of the company were realy great due to the fact the GI parts were around in abundance. (that they were buying for scrap prices) So having offshore castings done for them is not a new thing remember all of the BRAZIL 1911 frames then selling them as GI (mil spec style )45s. And the whole Croatia connection now is just the same thing. To call it american Iron is far from honest. They are no different than motorola or any other company I would dare anybody To prove that they even have considered having any American cast their parts for them. It would not make sense!!!! They are smart and cunning buissness people. I comend them for that. That is why they have castings made overseas. they manufacture them here buy having the finish machining done but the steel is not American. Honestly I would prefer a polytech frame. I am glad that REAL US frames are being made by LBR or whomever. I hope they do well enough with their line to extend it to other parts. I have no problem with paying an American who will use American parts to build an American rifle. If sprinfield is honestly so damn awsome why the hell did uncle sugar get ron smith to build the crazy horse for them, instead of the big bad ass m-14 godz springfield. Well i would dare to say that the SA are not really up to spec. But call me crazy as I hope you all do.

Cheers guys
james




This is all Robert S. McNamara's fault.

Uncle Sugar is using a lot of companies for M14 parts. Here are some recent Rock Island Arsenal awards and contracts for M14 items:

1) December 29, 2004 - 400 gas pistons (Advanced CNC Manufacturing, Inc.)
2) March 28, 2005 – 400 ejectors and ejector springs (Anco Machine Co.)
3) May 23, 2005 – 700 front sights (Tri-Technologies, Inc.)
4) June 08, 2005 – 900 flash suppressors (Airtronic Services, Inc.)
5) June 28, 2005 – 450 operating rods (Tri-Technologies, Inc.)
6) July 18, 2005 – 400 safeties (Sigma Manufacturing Industries, Inc.)
7) August 12, 2005 – 350 trigger and sear assemblies (Tri-Technologies, Inc.)
8) September 19, 2005 – indefinite quantity contract for twenty round magazines with a guaranteed minimum order of 25,000 and a maximum of 360,000 (Check-Mate Industries, Inc.)

Source: Rock Island Arsenal (contract and purchase orders in my files)

Of course, we know Sage International, Ltd. has the contract for several thousand EBR/Chop Mod stocks for the Navy Mk 14 Mod 0. As previously discussed, Smith Enterprise, Inc. is building M14SE Crazy Horse and Mk 14 SEI rifles for the military and supplying parts to NSWC Crane for Mk 14 Mod 0 rifles. Sources: DOD photographs, Sage International, and Smith Enterprise.

Further, Springfield Armory, Inc. has been the supplier of 18 " barrels to NSWC Crane for the Navy Mk 14 Mod 0 rifle from 2003 until the fall of 2005. The machining work on the barrel blanks was subcontracted. Reference: 10/23/05 telephone interview with Ron Smith, Smith Enterprise, Inc.

Springfield Armory, Inc. is also supplying its Third Generation scope mount to the U. S. Army as an issue scope mount for M14 rifles. Tasco is supplying an issue scope for the M14 rifle.Source: 12/05/05 interview with Staff Sergeant John Chalker, NY National Guard 69th Infantry Regiment. SSG Chalker was the squad designated marksman with a Winchester USGI M14. He served in Baghdad, Iraq from October, 2004 to September, 2005. SSG Chalker also stated that Check-Mate Industries is producing and supplying NIW M14 cleaning kit items to the U. S. Army.

FYI for the newbies, Gray-Syracuse (Chittenango, NY) made the SA, Inc. M1A receiver castings from at least 1973 until at least July, 1996. Valley Ordnance, Inc. (Wilkes-Barre, PA) and later, Hillside Manufacturing, Inc. (Dallas, PA), did the machining work on SA, Inc. M1A receivers from 1971 until July, 1996. Beginning in the summer of 1996, Springfield Armory, Inc. (Geneseo, IL) took over the machining of the M1A receivers because the owner of Valley Ordnance and Hillside Manufacturing, Melvin Smith, had passed away.




Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:58:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:

If sprinfield is honestly so damn awsome why the hell did uncle sugar get ron smith to build the crazy horse for them


Low bidder...



Normally true but to be fair, this was a sole source contract. Yes, I have seen the actual contract.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:53:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By HighPowerShooter:
Sa Inc has been using a forged bolt for some time now....



Can anyone confirm this? I hadn't heard it and was under the impression that everything is cast these days. I hope you are right about this. Cause I still want the dang thing no matter how scared I get...



I have three M1A's that I have had for about a year. They all have cast bolts.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:28:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Different:
Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A standard model M1A catalog # MA9101 2005 MSRP - $1486.00 Reference: www.springfield-armory.com

LRB Arms M14SA rack grade (all USGI parts except receiver and Criterion standard contour barrel) 2005 MSRP - $2289.00 Reference: Personal observation of rifles in stock at LRB Sales (Bellerose, NY) on December 05, 2005.




I hope noone is actually paying MSRP prices....


Longhunter
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:39:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:
My advice. Put your new extractor in, get a bunch of ammo and shoot the piss out of it. If money is an issue, buy some surplus ammo. After 1000 rounds or so, you'll start to know if it's got any week spots. It doesn't pay to worry about it now, because ALOT of them run fine, right out of the box. Somebody in the AR section just had a bushmaster bolt blow up and they're supposed to be high quality. It happens. That's why if it's a SHTF rifle, you got to put it through it's paces and get spare parts. Just my 2 cents.




Good points JJ and all the rest as well. I had been wringing my hands about this whole deal for weeks, but I am peacefully content at this time. I finally made peace with the FACT that I have several hundred $$$ down on a NIB Springfield and that's what I will be coming home with a month or so from now. I've had a Bushmaster AR that I bought new three years ago, and it's been 100% reliable and PERFECT in my opinion. And yet, as you stated, I realize that there may be someone else out there with not such a rosey opinion of Bushmaster as I have due to a bad experience. It's about the luck of the draw. And while it should NOT be about the luck of the draw when one spends this kind of money, it just is. Buy a $30K vehicle and you take the same chances. Buy a $200K house and you might be taking the same chances.

I was really wringing my hands about this a few days ago and considering buying another AR and trying to use heavy (69 - 77 grain) bullets to achieve the role I see for this rifle. But I came to my senses and realized that I just don't NEED another AR at this time. I don't have a .308 semi, and by golly it's time I get one! So I am at peace with this deal and will just swap-out the extractor on the new Springfield and then shoot the crap out of it for a while and hope for the best. I was watching some ebay auctions with TRP bolts and almost bidded on one. But I've decided to wait a while and actually GET the rifle and have it in my hands before I get crazy with replacement parts. I appreciate all of the input I've received about this and many have made points on both sides of the issue. But those who have bought or would buy NIB Springfields have convinced me that though I am taking my chances, things will probably turn-out just fine. I'll just hope that mine doesn't explode like that SOCOM did. But if it does, better now than later when I really need it!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By JJREA:
My advice. Put your new extractor in, get a bunch of ammo and shoot the piss out of it. If money is an issue, buy some surplus ammo. After 1000 rounds or so, you'll start to know if it's got any week spots. It doesn't pay to worry about it now, because ALOT of them run fine, right out of the box. Somebody in the AR section just had a bushmaster bolt blow up and they're supposed to be high quality. It happens. That's why if it's a SHTF rifle, you got to put it through it's paces and get spare parts. Just my 2 cents.




Good points JJ and all the rest as well. I had been wringing my hands about this whole deal for weeks, but I am peacefully content at this time. I finally made peace with the FACT that I have several hundred $$$ down on a NIB Springfield and that's what I will be coming home with a month or so from now. I've had a Bushmaster AR that I bought new three years ago, and it's been 100% reliable and PERFECT in my opinion. And yet, as you stated, I realize that there may be someone else out there with not such a rosey opinion of Bushmaster as I have due to a bad experience. It's about the luck of the draw. And while it should NOT be about the luck of the draw when one spends this kind of money, it just is. Buy a $30K vehicle and you take the same chances. Buy a $200K house and you might be taking the same chances.

I was really wringing my hands about this a few days ago and considering buying another AR and trying to use heavy (69 - 77 grain) bullets to achieve the role I see for this rifle. But I came to my senses and realized that I just don't NEED another AR at this time. I don't have a .308 semi, and by golly it's time I get one! So I am at peace with this deal and will just swap-out the extractor on the new Springfield and then shoot the crap out of it for a while and hope for the best. I was watching some ebay auctions with TRP bolts and almost bidded on one. But I've decided to wait a while and actually GET the rifle and have it in my hands before I get crazy with replacement parts. I appreciate all of the input I've received about this and many have made points on both sides of the issue. But those who have bought or would buy NIB Springfields have convinced me that though I am taking my chances, things will probably turn-out just fine. I'll just hope that mine doesn't explode like that SOCOM did. But if it does, better now than later when I really need it!



Just so you know, my dad has a loaded model he bought around last christmas. And we have somewhere around 500 rounds through it with absolutely no problems. And we still have the Springy extractor in it. We should probably change that out, but it's not a shtf rifle. My dad liked the way the Army Snipers m14 looked and we sort of set it up like that. Well basically we put a 3x 9 leupy on it on the springfield gen III mount. It was fun to do but, we will probably eventually get a real mount like the smith enterprises. Have fun with your new rifle. With enough care and patience, it'll run. And you might not need that much care and patience at all. You'll see that alot of guys that bought springfields new haven't had any problems. You make good analogies with the cars and the house. Be safe and shoot straight!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:49:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:
My dad liked the way the Army Snipers m14 looked and we sort of set it up like that. Well basically we put a 3x 9 leupy on it on the springfield gen III mount. It was fun to do but, we will probably eventually get a real mount like the smith enterprises.



I think that your dad and I have the same preferences in the way we like the M1A to look. I admit that mine is in black fiberglass and that's the way I prefer it (over the wood stock), but other than that I see mine the same way. I plan on getting the Smith mount, a SuperSniper scope, and bibod. I just like the image that's in my head of that set-up and plan to do it after I've shot her with irons for a while.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:19:43 AM EDT
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Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:


I suspect 80+% of M1A owners shoot less than 200 rounds a year thru theirs.



Hell, I did that last sunday alone.



Yup, about every 3 weeks.
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