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Posted: 11/18/2005 6:58:55 PM EDT
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I'm sure it's been answered here before but I couldn't find it. What kind of accuracy can I expect from a rack grade Garand? Also, there has been some discussion about the kind of ammo I should use. I bet the milsurp ball from the CMP should be just fine, but when I go out to hunt I think I want to use hollowpoints so what kind would be good to use with a Garand? Hopefully I'll be leaving Kalifornistan in the next couple of years, so I'd like to modify the G to accept the 20 round magazines if possible, and I've heard this is something that can be done with a Garand... any opinions about that? Also. Any particular suggestions on which to order? My objective with this purchase is to use it hunting deer, banging plates at the range, I have an SKS if I want a bullet hose, this is more for careful shot placement and long-term use as a hunting rifle. I'm not a historian... I would replace the wood without a second thought (although I'd store it properly for future use if I changed my mind), I'd rebarrel if the erosion was an issue, I'd repark if it can be done cost-effectively, etc. I really only plan on taking shots out to maybe 200 yards, most would be 300 yards. My vision... comes and goes. I couldn't tell you for sure how far I can see any given day, it depends on how dry my eyes are and how humid the air is. 100 yards is a gimme for me, but many times 200 yards is kind of a stretch, and 300 would be on a good day. Even with a 1.5MOA I should be able to stay in a 9" circle at 300 yards and that's enough for me. Can I get there with a rack? I've heard this and that about getting one that's been reworked at a particular date range... I have no idea which ones are good to get and which ones to avoid... or about putting a yellow sticky in the envelope asking for some kind of favor or another... does that work or is it just BS and 99% of them are in the ballpark of Good Enough and it's not really an issue? Thanks gents, unloading $400 right now is a stretch, I went back to school and money is as tight as... well, it's pretty tight. I want to make sure I do this right and don't have to spend a lot on upgrades for a couple years while I get used to the rifle and work with it. Three or four years from now I can spend some money on getting it tight, I just need it to function correctly and within reason for my purposes. Thanks again... looking forward to any commentary you guys have for me on this |
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Peak, Your questions are pretty broad.... and for $400 you are limited to either a Rack or Field Grade rifle. Either of those, by CMP's own description of the grading process, CAN and MAY come with a barrel that has a hosed muzzle (MW gauging above "3"), thereby almost assuring less than stellar accuracy. This is not to say that the rifle you order WILL have a MW above 3, but the grading allows it and many have reported getting such. To get a barrel with a GUARANTEED MW below 3, you have to go Service Grade. I know this is above your limit of $400, but that's the way it is as the pricing and grading now stand. If $400 is all you got and you NEED an M1, then I'd suggest buying the highest grade you can afford. In this case that's a Field Grade. Your chances of a better muzzle will probably be better than if you ordered the Rack Grade. If you do get unlucky and get a rifle with a bad muzzle and won't shoot as well as you'd hoped, the only recourse is to have it re-tubed. Getting a new barrel purchased and installed by a 'smith is going to set you back at LEAST $200 and most likely more if you want a really good barrel. Now you are up into and beyond the original cost of a Service Grade..... One thing about your accuracy "wants"... You mentioned hoping for 1-1/2 MOA at 100 yds. This is a stretch for ANY issue grade M1 on a regular basis. The USGI arsenal spec for a BRAND NEW rifle is only 4.0 MOA at 100 yds. with 8 rounds of M2 ball ammo. Most new M1's did better than this, but even full match upgraded NM rifles were only expected to hold 1-1/2 to 2 MOA. Expecting that from a Rack Grade (or even Service Grade) may be a bit on the unreasonable side. Not to say you can't get lucky and shoot a 1-1/2 MOA group now and then with a good rifle and GOOD handloads, but don't expect it to happen regularly. I own numerous M1's, all purchased from CMP. Most are Service Grade with a few Rack Grades thrown in for good measure. Very few will consistently shoot 1-1/2 MOA at 100 yds..... like maybe 1 in 10, and thats on a good day with my own Match grade handloads. The only M1's I own that will consistently shoot under 1-1/2 MOA are two .308 Match Grade rifles. These have been built up with new barrels, fully bedded, front end unitized, match trigger, and match sights. Nice... but that's where you have to go in order to get a consistent 1-1/2 MOA from an M1. Not to be flip, but I have to paraphrase a saying used in the auto racing field..... "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go"??? In this case it's, "Accuracy costs money. How much accuracy can you afford"?? M1 rifles are great..... I love them. 99% of my shooting is done with the M1, but the type of accuracy you are hoping for is generally not going to be found in an issue grade weapon. For what they ARE... a tough and reliable BATTLE RIFLE, they fit the bill perfectly, but a Battle Rifle is usually not expected to give the kind of accuracy you are hoping for. Just my opinions. Good luck on your choice... best to all, Swampy Garands forever |
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Swampy, If it's a 4MOA rifle, then I can only reasonably expect to bag a deer at a touch over 100 yards, then. I think that's kind of a shame. Maybe a Garand isn't for me. I want to use it, not just look at it. Hmm. If you were me, and you wanted to do what I wanted to do, would you go with a Remington 700 of some variety or would you go with a Garand? |
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Peak, Sorry, but you mis-read my description of the spec. New M1's were EXPECTED TO MEET 4.0 MOA.... that means they had to be BETTER than that in order to be accepted for service. If a rifle could not meet 4.0 MOA it was sent back for re-work. Most newly made M1's fell somewhere around the 2 to 3 MOA mark with 8 rounds of M2 ball @ 100 yds. Now, having said that, we were talking about NEW rifles. Rack and Field grades are most definitely well used. Many probably will not hold 4.0 MOA... especially if the muzzle is gauging out beyond "3". However.... even today, many of these 50-60 year old rifles will shoot 2 to 3 MOA @ 100 yds IF, and this is the IF.... they have a decent barrel and you are shooting good ammo. Good ammo being defined as a milsurp M2 known for accuracy (Greek M2, Danish AMA, or some better lots of USGI Lake City) or for hunting, handloads you've worked up for the rifle you have. There ain't no guarantees..... Every M1 is an individual..... but some generalities apply. I own numerous M1's that I've bought from the CMP. If the barrel is gauging 2 or better at the Muzzle I can generally expect a rifle to shoot anywhere from 2 to 3 MOA @ 100 yds. As the Muzzle opens up I expect this to deteriorate. With a new commercial barrel I'd expect to meet 2.0 MOA and on some days better that a bit. This is why a lot of guys will gamble on a Rack Grade..... hoping for a decent barrel that shoots well, but if they don't get it they can drop another $200 in it for a new barrel and end up with a rifle that shoots as good as new, literally, and still not have much more into it than if they'd bought the Service Grade up front. Now, shooting a deer @ 100 yds...... Hmmm.... just spitballing here, but isn't the vital area on a whitetail in the neighborhood of around 8-10" in diameter??..... maybe 12"?? That leaves quite a bit of leeway even for a rifle that's on the verge of 4.0 MOA capability. Remember, if the rifle shoots a 4.0 MOA grouping @ 100, all the shots will be in that size area... and just because you may pull the shot off to the left of the vital area, what are the chances that THAT particular bullet is going to be at the far left of the group area too??? It's just as likely that it will be somewhere toward the center of the potential group, or even to the right side.... I'd say you are overthinking the issue a bit. Think about all those Winny Model 94's and Marlin 336 30-30's out there that take umpteen thousand deer every year. Most of those won't hold 4.0 MOA @ 100, but that don't stop old Joe Schmo deer hunter from filling his tag with it...... especially if he's a decent shot and has used that particular rifle well enough to know how it shoots. Can you be any worse with a good M1??? Just my thoughts on the subject...... Best of luck in what you do, Swampy Garands forever |
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