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Posted: 9/23/2003 8:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2003 5:01:41 PM EDT by tangeant]
Micheal Kelly Sr. Indicted on 400 counts of illegal manuf/ poss / Sale of machine guns and 300 counts of MAIL FRAUD.

Hopefully he will be prosecuted and sent to a " Federal pound me in the ASS prison ".

From an article in the Mountain Statesman www.zwire.com
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 9:09:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2003 9:09:49 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Aside from the fact that a lot of people were screwed out of a lot of money, there should be no joy in this. He is being prosecuted for a crime that should not be a crime. He did not sell or manufacture automatic weapons. He manufactured and sold semi-automatic weapons that used to be automatic weapons. The "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule is a lousey rule. It is morally wrong to send a man to prison for this. Hopefully, he is aquitted and the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule is struck down.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 10:47:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 4:10:18 PM EDT by Chuck]
[deleted]
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:13:29 AM EDT
This is for those who don't know the full story.It's not the machine gun rule that will put him in prison.

He welded together demilled M14 receivers.Those receivers were sent to other countries (by BIG BROTHER).Then they were demilled and sent back to the U.S. (against BATF rules).Then Michael Kelly welded them together and relocated the selector lug about 3/8".

Michael Kelly did all that without BATF approval and sold them.

Anybody in there right mind knows it's GRAND THEFT (and making a machinegun) and he deserves a good A** F****** for every person he ripped off and I for one thinks he'll get what he deserves.

Of course,If you didn't lose $400.00-$500.00 then you obviously think differently.No,I never bought one just in case you're wondering.

It's because of people like Michael Kelly that makes the rest of us look bad even when we do follow the law.

I'd be more than happy to send him his first jar of vasiline.

I know of an agency in Italy who has 20 M14 receivers going to them from Israel.I know this for a fact because he sent me an email to order parts for building complete rifles.

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 5:38:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 11:55:14 AM EDT by Hoplite]

Originally Posted By Gun Guru:

Originally Posted By tangeant:
Micheal Kelly Sr. Indicted on 400 counts of illegal manuf/ poss / Sale of machine guns and 300 counts of MAIL FRAUD.

Hopefully he will be prosecuted and sent to a " Pound me in the ASS prison ".

From an article in the Mountain Statesman www.zwire.com


Edited by Hoplite



Mike Kelly will deserves EVERY INCH and STROKE he will receive in prison for what he did.

He was and is a liar/ scam artist, he lied about the legality of the recvr's.
He had no good faith, he continued to take peoples money and orders after he knew the ATF was going to seize them.
His Intentions were to take peoples $.

A law is a law if you like it or not and he broke it big time and will pay for it !
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:19:09 AM EDT
Gun Guru,

You are way out of line and owe Tangeant an apology. To even suggest that his children, who have no place in this conversation WHAT SO EVER, should be molested, then killed is way out, I mean way out of line.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 8:38:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 11:55:44 AM EDT by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 10:56:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cc45:
Gun Guru,

You are way out of line and owe Tangeant an apology. To even suggest that his children, who have no place in this conversation WHAT SO EVER, should be molested, then killed is way out, I mean way out of line.



You guys are so right.I didn't say anything because I thought the moderator would take care of it.

We should stick together to protect our rights,not act like thugs on a revenge trip.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:22:42 AM EDT
Thats what I love about Mike Kelly supporters,, they are so reasonable and polite.

So, because I object to a criminal robbing me via US Mail I should have my family brutalized? This guy lied from the word, GO, on his deal with me, he lied about his product being legal, he attemptted to defraud my credit card, he did not deliver a product until after I threatened legal action and then he delivered a product that was illegally made and marketed.

Weither his was a friend from your church or personable does not matter, he was and IS a criminal, I hope he gets 3000 years for it. As a mater of fact, when I turned in my reciever, I offered to file the mail fraud complaint in person.

and for the "gunguru", what exactly makes you think someone deserves to have their family brutalized for objecting to being robbed? That being said, Why would you think you are better than any Nazi or muslim child murderer out there? If Karma works you will get you reward as well.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shephard:

Originally Posted By cc45:
Gun Guru,

You are way out of line and owe Tangeant an apology. To even suggest that his children, who have no place in this conversation WHAT SO EVER, should be molested, then killed is way out, I mean way out of line.



You guys are so right.I didn't say anything because I thought the moderator would take care of it.

We should stick together to protect our rights,not act like thugs on a revenge trip.


Ed beat me to it. I also sent him an im to make the apology public since he had the nerve to insult publicly. This is out of line and wont be tolerated
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 3:01:11 PM EDT
I've read all the replies and believe clearly that Sukebe has it right. MKS did nothing wrong in the ATF's point of view because he has a consitutional right to do so. However, bilking customers is wrong and MKS should be forced to make amends here but this is nothing to do with the grand jury and ATF's position.

It is a sad day indeed when we behave like children and fight among ourselves to where we lose sight of why we're banded here and fighting for (restoration of our rights).

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 8:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2003 8:41:14 PM EDT by lonegunman]
Let me make it easy for you to wrap your brain around.

1. Mike Kelly did not have ATF approval to manufactor a M-14 type reciever, he made and sold them without ATF approval.

2. When pressed by customers like me, he provided a letter on MKS letterhead stating he had ATF approval. This is called a lie or deception. To sell an illegal product thru deception is a crime. To sell it via the US mail is mail fraud.

3. The "torch cut" Israeli recievers, were actually stolen from a US military source and saw cut, according to the ATF. He lied to the ATF and customers about this. He is a lying scumbag. Why on earth would you expect the ATF to let this slide???

4. The ATF has ruled more than once that "machinegun" recievers are always machinegun recievers. Rewelding one makes a machinegun. Even if you "feel" it should not be illegal it still is illegal, selling it is illegal, making it is illegal. He knew this and did it anyway.

5. Mike sold something like 25 of these to a guy in North Dakota who then portrayed them as "real" M-14s and sold them in "Shotgun News". When the ATF contacted him he denied any knowledge of this guy. If you made 400 recievers and sold a good portion to a guy with no FFL you really should remember.

6. I sat in the local ATF office and read the complaint they had against him and the accompanying documents as we did the paperwork to give up my reciever. I asked about the mail fraud and as one of the people he defrauded I would be happy to file a complaint and jail him.

Please save the "fight the ATF to the death" crap for someone else. I have no intention of going to war with the ATF over a $425.00 dollar product made by a guy that did not follow a single instruction from the ATF.

Please feel free to tell me how my wife and children should be brutalized by some "Born Again Christians" because I did business with a criminal that believes what you believe.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 10:55:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:25:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
5. Mike sold something like 25 of these to a guy in North Dakota who then portrayed them as "real" M-14s and sold them in "Shotgun News".


Not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer was he.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:11:56 AM EDT
yikes...this topic went south FAST......
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:15:14 AM EDT
4. The ATF has ruled more than once that "machinegun" recievers are always machinegun recievers. Rewelding one makes a machinegun. Even if you "feel" it should not be illegal it still is illegal, selling it is illegal, making it is illegal. He knew this and did it anyway.

BATFE does not make laws, they enforce them. If anything good comes of this it might be ruled "once a machinegun, always a machinegun" as not a correct intrepretation of the law.

He'll probably cop a plea though.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:43:54 AM EDT
Tangeant,

You aren't, by chance, a fan of the movie "Office Space", are you?

At the very least, this dude committed mail fraud. That is enough to get sent to a "federal pound me in the @$$ prison", and he needs to go down for that if nothing else. So he was trying to push illegal DEWATs? Yeah, that's illegal as hell. Whether we agree with it or not, that's the case, all thanks to Frank Layton, Joe Miller, and their attorney. If you need further explanation on that, research US v. Miller and dig a little deeper than just the Supreme Court decision.
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 10:43:04 PM EDT
doesn't this guy also make the new LRB forged recievers? or is that another one of his scams?
OR is the producer of the LRB a different company?

yes, I know I have the net to look it up on...I am just too tired.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 8:13:41 AM EDT
LRB use to be only the distributor for MKS.. .. The new receiver has nothing to do with MKS at all.....LRB is not associated with MKS at all...... over on Battlerifles.com, the LRB receiver has gotten excellent reviews and looks like they are selling quite well.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 8:23:25 AM EDT
Machineguns should NOT be illegal or restricted in any way. Quite the contrary, I think everybody should be issued one if he's part of the regular unorganized militia, which includes all males between 18 and 45...and of course, when you turn 46, you should get to keep the MG as a thanks for your militia service.

CJ
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 11:24:05 AM EDT
LRB uses a shop up in CT to mill the recievers from the forgings
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 11:22:57 AM EDT
In all fairness, since Gun Guru's post was deleted, shouldn't the quotes from it be deleted as well?

It was right to delete it but is rendered moot by leaving the quotes alone.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 7:37:18 AM EDT
I did not know the guy, but it did seem too good to be true, esp for the price.

The guy took order and people sent payment upfront. The ATF steps in and hammers the guy so now you don't get your product. Hmmm... Now this guy was showing a letter from the ATF on GunandKnife.com that stated that the receivers were deemed to be "scrap" and could be used. Later the ATF changed their minds. Now the question is did he continue to take orders after the ATF changed their mind??

I think it is sad all around. Some pencil neck geek in DC decides that a weapon is illegal and can go back and confiscate them?? There is the crime fellas.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 9:18:37 AM EDT
HighPowerShooter: thanks for the info. I am REALLY tempted to buy a couple of those and replace the cast recievers on my M1A's...after my relationship with SA went REALLY FAR SOUTH I have been dying to get rid of all of my SA stuff...but I will not get rid of my 14's...this seems to be the way to have my cake and eat it too. An expensive cake, to be sure...but nonetheless....
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 2:37:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Machineguns should NOT be illegal or restricted in any way. Quite the contrary, I think everybody should be issued one if he's part of the regular unorganized militia, which includes all males between 18 and 45...and of course, when you turn 46, you should get to keep the MG as a thanks for your militia service.

CJ



The Second Amendment was not written so everyone would get armed. It was written so everyone would be able to arm themselves.

I agree with the ideals behind what you posted, though. Everyone ought to be able to get a machinegun as it is a proper militia weapon. Thanks to the NFA of '34, the GCA of '68, and an amendment to the FOPA of '86, they are unreachable for some of us. Some people are ill suited to them, or at least to the one(s) that would be issued. By all means, arm yourself, but arm yourself with what you know you are comfortable with.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:31:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
HighPowerShooter: thanks for the info. I am REALLY tempted to buy a couple of those and replace the cast recievers on my M1A's...after my relationship with SA went REALLY FAR SOUTH I have been dying to get rid of all of my SA stuff...but I will not get rid of my 14's...this seems to be the way to have my cake and eat it too. An expensive cake, to be sure...but nonetheless....



Entreprise Arms has their M14A2 receivers on sale this month for $399.
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