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Posted: 2/28/2003 6:35:50 AM EDT
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I ordered and received an M-1 Garand through the CMP back in June of 1998. This was my first long arm purchase. I went through the process to purchase it through the CMP both to help educate myself, and because I felt it was a good deal at $310.00. Back then, you could not choose your quality of rifle, and were left with the luck of the draw. I was almost shocked with joy when I received my received my rifle, an H&R with S/N in the 47211XX range. It was in fantastic shape. I dropped it off at my favorite gunsmith to have him check it out, and make sure everything was in working order, being a novice. I was told that the rifle appeared to have been overhauled at the depot level. All the parts are H&R with the exception of the trigger group, which is SA. I have read that this is not unusual because H&R had problems keeping up with production of their trigger groups. My gunsmith said that the barrel looked new, and probably had only been test fired. The only oddity about the gun is where I have questions. The stock that came with the gun has the normal handling wear, but does not appear to have any markings of any kind on it. No proof marks what so ever. It is unaltered since I received it from the CMP. My questions are as follows: Is this common? I have heard that every gun that left the CMP had some form of proof marks. Second, does the decrease the value / collectiblility of the rifle. I really don’t care one way or the other except to satisfy my own curiosity. I bought the gun to shoot, and it is super accurate and reliable, as a Garand should be. Thanks for any light you might be able to shine on this issue. -Matthew   |
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It's really hard to say why the stock doesn't show any markings. If it is original to the rifle it should have a Defense Acceptance Stamp (DAS) on the left side of the stock in the area between the clip latch and the rear sight. A marked stock is always more desirable than an unmarked stock. The DAS is a Square enclosing a spread eagle clutching arrows with stars over top of the eagle. It should also have a "P" in a circle under the pistol grip. Even an arsenal refinished stock would have markings from the arsenal that did the work. Your rifle may have been turned in by a veterans organization or ROTC unit that refinished the wood themselves, leaving faint or no markings visible. From the looks of the wood and the fit it shows at the receiver heel, it's obvious that it has been heavily sanded. It's difficult to completely remove the markings. I've had stocks that were sanded and refinished several times and some of the markings could still be found, though it took some effort. In the right light you may be able to find shadows of the markings with a magnafying glass. It's a great looking rifle BTW. It shouldn't be too tough to find an H&R trigger group. One more thing, your sling is on backwards. |
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Sukebe, Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail. I have always found AR15.com to be the end all, be all authority for AR related questions, but just recently found the M1 section, which has re-sparked an interest in my rifle. (I’ve had it to the range twice in the last week.) I never knew there were people lurking on this board that had so much information on M1’s. I will bust out the magnifying glass and shop light tonight and see what I can find on the stock. Any suggestions where to look for an H&R trigger group, other than the gun shows? As for the sling, that’s a great eye for detail! Actually you’re not the first person to tell me that. The picture was taken right after I got the rifle. Someone at the range educated me on the proper installation soon after, but those are the only images of the rifle that I have. Thanks again for your insight. -Matthew |
| For parts try www.usarmory.com or www.m1garandrifle.com. I would suggest the CMP but you can't request specific manufacturers parts. For more M-1 sites try www.jouster.com or www.battlerifles.com Both of those boards have "for sale" forums and you may find your trigger group there. |
| not all stocks refinished at an arsenal will show stampings or even a P on the grip... if the stock was refinished during the late 50's and 60's the only indication would be electro-pencil marks on the right front receiver leg.. during the refinishing process the P proof on the stock as well as the DAS stamp on the side of the stock might have been sanded down..... the Garands that seem to have all the nice cartouches and stamps, of late, have been the Danish ones.....not having the spams and cartouches doesn't detract at all from the value of the weapon.. if you have the paperwork from the CMP that will make sure the weapon keeps it's value.... if you don't have the paperwork.. you can write the CMP and for a small fee ($15 I think) they will be able to tell you if the rifle was sold through them or the old DCM program..... |
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HighPowerShooter, Thanks for your input. The serial number puts this rifle as being built in the 50’s, so a refurb in the late 50’s early 60’s is quite possible I would imagine. I will also look for the mark on the receiver leg, and I still have all my paperwork. Thanks again. -Matthew |
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Matt, You have an early production HRA. Some of the early 4 mils had SA parts as SA sent parts to both HRA and especially to IHC to help start out production. There should be a DAS stamp on the stock. That doesn't mean that it was refinished at an armoery overhaul and not restamped. Is there a P stamped under the pistol grip? The other possibilty is that CMP replaced the wood, because the original may have been damaged or unserviceable. They will replace wood if it is not servicable. They replace with USGI wood, but it is possible to encounter a USGI stock with no markings due to being refinished at some point. HRA stocks have very subtle characterisitcs. the comb is different, the horseshoe behind the receiver heel is much wider than a SA and the pistol grip area is different when viewed from the side. If you can post pictures of the heel area that are a little deeper I can tell a little better, in your pciture it is hard to tell if the stock ends where the light color is or there is a shadow that covers more stock behind the reciever. Assuming that it is not a shadow, it appears to be a SA stock. IHC and WRA stocks have other charactersitics also. Does this have all other parts marked HRA? Like mentiioned earlier the HRAs had some SA parts factory assembled in the early stages. It looks like your rear sight group is darker, possibly reparked or replaced. It could be an arsenal reworked the M1 at some point. Hope this helps a little. PS if the barrel is original, you have a rifle worth at least 2X what you paid in 1998 IMHO. |
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Soldiers could care less about stocks and trigger groups and any other parts. When cleaning parts in a group the subjects are cars and girls and no one cares about what stock goes on which rifle etc. No does the depot which inspects these rifles under a clean and repair program. Although if the rifle has been thru this program it should have been marked. Many years ago, when were finger print cards involved for getting one of these rifles, I ordered one and asked for a serial number under 2 million. Then as now they say you can't do this, but they will, as long as they don't have to jump thru any hoops. Got a 1942 Springfield in the 900,000 range. Looked completely original other than a M14 rear sight (!) and a new H&R trigger group. A guy I knew received a 100% H&R (in like new condition) other than a 1942 Springfield trigger group. We swapped parts. Your rifle should be easy to restore. -- Chuck |
| When I recieved my IHC M1 Garand last year from CMP, it had been through rebuild in 65 and the only part on it that was IHC was the reciever, It had a Birch stock brand new that didn't have a Defence stamp or a P on it. I'm real happy with it though as the barrel is new,TE 1.5 and the gun shoots like a NM rifle. I'll be ordering a rack grade Dane next month when I get my tax return, to make a 308 out of. I think that at the end of the service life of the Garand, the repair depot people didn't care wheather the stocks had any markings on them, as they were all heading to long term storage. |
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M4A3; I'm sure the rifle was proofed,pull the op-rod handle back, and look on the barrel, it should have some numbers(What shift,date of mfg) and initals of Mfg,(could be someone other than H&R)somewhere after that, going towards the muzzel,(usually where the O.D. of the barrel starts to go down) you'll see a "P" with a small punch mark on the "p" or close by,Those are your proof marks, |
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