User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/10/2022 4:08:41 PM EDT
[#1]
so, basically the safest way is to just turn whatever you have from them in?
or is this also some kind of trap? this is why no one trusts government. |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2022 5:54:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: so, basically the safest way is to just turn whatever you have from them in? or is this also some kind of trap? this is why no one trusts government. Acceptable answers based on what's been reported so far. I have DM parts and they are on a form 1 now, will send a copy of form 1 (A deviation from existing rules, presumingly they could change their mind later and seize form1) I have DM parts and will destroy them I have DM parts and will turn them over I never recieved my DM parts I had DM parts but I no longer have them |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2022 6:28:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I followed what the letter stated. I contacted my local ATF field office. ATF field agent was assigned to me. The agent was very nice, the agent asked for a picture of my Form 1 and a picture of the letter I received in the mail, he also requested a picture of the silencer. After sending the information ATF field agent stated he would get back to me.
After 3 days he called back. The ATF agent forward my information to Detroit ATF office. The agent stated if you did a form 1 you are ok. Then stated we know what you purchased through DM, if Detroit office have any questions they will contact you, we looking for people who didn’t file a form 1. Have a nice weekend thank you. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 12:51:08 AM EDT
[#4]
I never got a letter. But today two very stern but nice plain clothes agents came to the door. My heart skipped about 50 beats. They knew what I had bought from dm, when and how much which I confirmed via email later. They stayed out front and talked to me about 20 min where my cams were in full view and they let me go in and get my form 1s. I came back out and they explained the situation which I knew nothing about. But they confirmed:
1. Dimpled endcap was my issue (luckily I only had 1. But they needed all the other items on the receipt). 2. My forms didnt matter in making the endcap legal, but apparently does keep me out of trouble. 3. Had I built the suppressor (silencer) I would have to forgo ownership, and the stamp, and no refund on the stamp! So this is real. This is not second hand. Got the stamps prior to any parts. Have no other reason for them to be coming for me, the local range officer even calls me the stamp collector as it takes a while to match up the paperwork sometimes. I have decided (havejng only a few hours to let this sink in that I am going to not involve an attorney at this stage. It may be very stupid, but I've had a handful over the years and the outcomes have been 50:50 but 100% expensive. If this is a crime, and all the years I've waited on stamps and taxes I've paid for them doesnt count for something, then this isn't the America I want to acknowledge being from. I have faith in our flag, and in our humble servants despite its light shining very dimly as of late. But officers are people too and they just have a job to do if I make it miserable kn them they will make it miserable for me. I have no other reason for this to be a sting so I'll show them respect and help them do their job. THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE STUPIDEST THINGS IVE EVER DONE but it DEFINATELY wont even be in the top 3 so hopefully you'll hear from me tomorrow. If not a GoFundMe for timberfulfen may be setup on Friday... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:39:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: I never got a letter. But today two very stern but nice plain clothes agents came to the door. My heart skipped about 50 beats. They knew what I had bought from dm, when and how much which I confirmed via email later. They stayed out front and talked to me about 20 min where my cams were in full view and they let me go in and get my form 1s. I came back out and they explained the situation which I knew nothing about. But they confirmed: 1. Dimpled endcap was my issue (luckily I only had 1. But they needed all the other items on the receipt). 2. My forms didnt matter in making the endcap legal, but apparently does keep me out of trouble. 3. Had I built the suppressor (silencer) I would have to forgo ownership, and the stamp, and no refund on the stamp! So this is real. This is not second hand. Got the stamps prior to any parts. Have no other reason for them to be coming for me, the local range officer even calls me the stamp collector as it takes a while to match up the paperwork sometimes. I have decided (havejng only a few hours to let this sink in that I am going to not involve an attorney at this stage. It may be very stupid, but I've had a handful over the years and the outcomes have been 50:50 but 100% expensive. If this is a crime, and all the years I've waited on stamps and taxes I've paid for them doesnt count for something, then this isn't the America I want to acknowledge being from. I have faith in our flag, and in our humble servants despite its light shining very dimly as of late. But officers are people too and they just have a job to do if I make it miserable kn them they will make it miserable for me. I have no other reason for this to be a sting so I'll show them respect and help them do their job. THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE STUPIDEST THINGS IVE EVER DONE but it DEFINATELY wont even be in the top 3 so hopefully you'll hear from me tomorrow. If not a GoFundMe for timberfulfen may be setup on Friday... Any idea why you did not get a letter? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 6:57:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Rodent]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: I never got a letter. But today two very stern but nice plain clothes agents came to the door. My heart skipped about 50 beats. They knew what I had bought from dm, when and how much which I confirmed via email later. They stayed out front and talked to me about 20 min where my cams were in full view and they let me go in and get my form 1s. I came back out and they explained the situation which I knew nothing about. But they confirmed: 1. Dimpled endcap was my issue (luckily I only had 1. But they needed all the other items on the receipt). 2. My forms didnt matter in making the endcap legal, but apparently does keep me out of trouble. 3. Had I built the suppressor (silencer) I would have to forgo ownership, and the stamp, and no refund on the stamp! So this is real. This is not second hand. Got the stamps prior to any parts. Have no other reason for them to be coming for me, the local range officer even calls me the stamp collector as it takes a while to match up the paperwork sometimes. I have decided (havejng only a few hours to let this sink in that I am going to not involve an attorney at this stage. It may be very stupid, but I've had a handful over the years and the outcomes have been 50:50 but 100% expensive. If this is a crime, and all the years I've waited on stamps and taxes I've paid for them doesnt count for something, then this isn't the America I want to acknowledge being from. I have faith in our flag, and in our humble servants despite its light shining very dimly as of late. But officers are people too and they just have a job to do if I make it miserable kn them they will make it miserable for me. I have no other reason for this to be a sting so I'll show them respect and help them do their job. THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE STUPIDEST THINGS IVE EVER DONE but it DEFINATELY wont even be in the top 3 so hopefully you'll hear from me tomorrow. If not a GoFundMe for timberfulfen may be setup on Friday... |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 9:45:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: I never got a letter. But today two very stern but nice plain clothes agents came to the door. My heart skipped about 50 beats. They knew what I had bought from dm, when and how much which I confirmed via email later. They stayed out front and talked to me about 20 min where my cams were in full view and they let me go in and get my form 1s. I came back out and they explained the situation which I knew nothing about. But they confirmed: 1. Dimpled endcap was my issue (luckily I only had 1. But they needed all the other items on the receipt). 2. My forms didnt matter in making the endcap legal, but apparently does keep me out of trouble. 3. Had I built the suppressor (silencer) I would have to forgo ownership, and the stamp, and no refund on the stamp! So this is real. This is not second hand. Got the stamps prior to any parts. Have no other reason for them to be coming for me, the local range officer even calls me the stamp collector as it takes a while to match up the paperwork sometimes. I have decided (havejng only a few hours to let this sink in that I am going to not involve an attorney at this stage. It may be very stupid, but I've had a handful over the years and the outcomes have been 50:50 but 100% expensive. If this is a crime, and all the years I've waited on stamps and taxes I've paid for them doesnt count for something, then this isn't the America I want to acknowledge being from. I have faith in our flag, and in our humble servants despite its light shining very dimly as of late. But officers are people too and they just have a job to do if I make it miserable kn them they will make it miserable for me. I have no other reason for this to be a sting so I'll show them respect and help them do their job. THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE STUPIDEST THINGS IVE EVER DONE but it DEFINATELY wont even be in the top 3 so hopefully you'll hear from me tomorrow. If not a GoFundMe for timberfulfen may be setup on Friday... Your post is the most concerning case in any of the threads so far. Flint office told 3 other local branches just last week they didn't have order details, but they do. How they handled once a suppressor part it can't be form 1'ed was correct but he opposite of how they told everyone else they would handle the DM issue. Of the locals that build form 1s, none of us have received letters so far. |
|
|
KY, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 11:54:29 AM EDT
[#8]
If dimples is the whole problem, that should be easy enough in court to prove that aft is stupid to call that a silencer part since, it would not pass a bullet and would in fact have to be a firearm silencer to be classified one, per the actual text of the 1934 National Firearms Act.
The actual law doesn't say anything that may be used to make a silencer. The actual law says a FIREARM SILENCER. Which you created after you paid your tax, jumped through the hoops, and complied with making one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 12:01:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnA4: If dimples is the whole problem, that should be easy enough in court to prove that aft is stupid to call that a silencer part since, it would not pass a bullet and would in fact have to be a firearm silencer to be classified one, per the actual text of the 1934 National Firearms Act. The actual law doesn't say anything that may be used to make a silencer. The actual law says a FIREARM SILENCER. Which you created after you paid your tax, jumped through the hoops, and complied with making one. this would be true, if we lived in a nation where laws have meaning, and not interpretation at the whim of a bureaucrat. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#10]
They appear to be handling this as an ex post facto matter. The item was deemed illegal by interpretation after purchase and when I was made aware of the issue I agreed to surrender it. Since I had not made it yet I had to find the part they were talking about and said I needed a few hours so they left. If it had been a bigger issue I doubt they would have left. I called when I figured out what they were even looking for by using my email and the wayback machine to search for pictures and they said they would come back tomorrow ad it was getting late. Maybe they just didnt want to put in overtime to arrest me but it seems like they just had a job to track down the parts and collect them. They told me if I didnt surrender them, know that I was aware I could be subject to future problems.
So I'm handling it in accordance with my gut. I could be wrong. But I trusted a lawyer once before that gave me the worst advice and turned out to not even be correct for the state I lived in (and they were licensed in my state and I paid 15k to find out later I made the wrong move). So this may be foolish. But it isn't about money, I'd pay 10k if i felt like this was going south. If I have to give up a $200 tax stamp it sucks but I wont fight it. If I have to get a lawyer because I get charged after the fact I will. Yes it sucks, yes it's scary but they have a job to track this stuff down and if I do have to go in front of a judge, showing 100% compliance, and taking every step to make it legal in the first place, makes my best case. I'll get a lawyer when I need one, right now they are going to slow down a process and make their job harder which I dont feel is necessary. A lot of you wont agree. I just ask you to pray for me and my family. I'll report back in about 4 hours if I still can. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 12:51:17 PM EDT
[#11]
I bought a tri lug adapter from them in 2015.
Should I contact my local ATF guy about it? I’ve moved since then. They sent the letter to my old address. The new home owners and I are friendly. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:20:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnA4: If dimples is the whole problem, that should be easy enough in court to prove that aft is stupid to call that a silencer part since, it would not pass a bullet and would in fact have to be a firearm silencer to be classified one, per the actual text of the 1934 National Firearms Act. The actual law doesn't say anything that may be used to make a silencer. The actual law says a FIREARM SILENCER. Which you created after you paid your tax, jumped through the hoops, and complied with making one. Yeah no First the 1934 law was updated in 1986 to include all parts used to make a silencer. Then there is the decades of case law defining what those parts are and what how close to finished they have to be. Then for the umpteenth time, you cannot get safe harbor form 1’ing a contraband part. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:23:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: They appear to be handling this as an ex post facto matter. The item was deemed illegal by interpretation after purchase and when I was made aware of the issue I agreed to surrender it. Since I had not made it yet I had to find the part they were talking about and said I needed a few hours so they left. If it had been a bigger issue I doubt they would have left. I called when I figured out what they were even looking for by using my email and the wayback machine to search for pictures and they said they would come back tomorrow ad it was getting late. Maybe they just didnt want to put in overtime to arrest me but it seems like they just had a job to track down the parts and collect them. They told me if I didnt surrender them, know that I was aware I could be subject to future problems. So I'm handling it in accordance with my gut. I could be wrong. But I trusted a lawyer once before that gave me the worst advice and turned out to not even be correct for the state I lived in (and they were licensed in my state and I paid 15k to find out later I made the wrong move). So this may be foolish. But it isn't about money, I'd pay 10k if i felt like this was going south. If I have to give up a $200 tax stamp it sucks but I wont fight it. If I have to get a lawyer because I get charged after the fact I will. Yes it sucks, yes it's scary but they have a job to track this stuff down and if I do have to go in front of a judge, showing 100% compliance, and taking every step to make it legal in the first place, makes my best case. I'll get a lawyer when I need one, right now they are going to slow down a process and make their job harder which I dont feel is necessary. A lot of you wont agree. I just ask you to pray for me and my family. I'll report back in about 4 hours if I still can. Water under the bridge now, but I wonder what would have happened if you said you were not going to surrender it but return it for refund |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:29:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Logcutter]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: They appear to be handling this as an ex post facto matter. The item was deemed illegal by interpretation after purchase and when I was made aware of the issue I agreed to surrender it. Since I had not made it yet I had to find the part they were talking about and said I needed a few hours so they left. If it had been a bigger issue I doubt they would have left. I called when I figured out what they were even looking for by using my email and the wayback machine to search for pictures and they said they would come back tomorrow ad it was getting late. Maybe they just didnt want to put in overtime to arrest me but it seems like they just had a job to track down the parts and collect them. They told me if I didnt surrender them, know that I was aware I could be subject to future problems. So I'm handling it in accordance with my gut. I could be wrong. But I trusted a lawyer once before that gave me the worst advice and turned out to not even be correct for the state I lived in (and they were licensed in my state and I paid 15k to find out later I made the wrong move). So this may be foolish. But it isn't about money, I'd pay 10k if i felt like this was going south. If I have to give up a $200 tax stamp it sucks but I wont fight it. If I have to get a lawyer because I get charged after the fact I will. Yes it sucks, yes it's scary but they have a job to track this stuff down and if I do have to go in front of a judge, showing 100% compliance, and taking every step to make it legal in the first place, makes my best case. I'll get a lawyer when I need one, right now they are going to slow down a process and make their job harder which I dont feel is necessary. A lot of you wont agree. I just ask you to pray for me and my family. I'll report back in about 4 hours if I still can. Thanks for posting. I contacted my local office. They checked my name, form-1, and sent me an email stating  I simply called stating I had received a DM letter and asked if I could have an email contact to send a picture of my F1. Minutes from call to reply. Polite, professional, and quick. Yes, I understand that they "could" still come back about parts blah blah blah, but then I would have contact only through a lawyer and would have this documentation backing me up in court. After reading the above, I decided being proactive was better than having ATF at my door. Time will tell if ignoring the letter was a good idea, but I feel better about my odds of not having agents at my door over something I bent over backwards to do legally. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:32:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: They appear to be handling this as an ex post facto matter. The item was deemed illegal by interpretation after purchase and when I was made aware of the issue I agreed to surrender it. Since I had not made it yet I had to find the part they were talking about and said I needed a few hours so they left. If it had been a bigger issue I doubt they would have left. I called when I figured out what they were even looking for by using my email and the wayback machine to search for pictures and they said they would come back tomorrow ad it was getting late. Maybe they just didnt want to put in overtime to arrest me but it seems like they just had a job to track down the parts and collect them. They told me if I didnt surrender them, know that I was aware I could be subject to future problems. So I'm handling it in accordance with my gut. I could be wrong. But I trusted a lawyer once before that gave me the worst advice and turned out to not even be correct for the state I lived in (and they were licensed in my state and I paid 15k to find out later I made the wrong move). So this may be foolish. But it isn't about money, I'd pay 10k if i felt like this was going south. If I have to give up a $200 tax stamp it sucks but I wont fight it. If I have to get a lawyer because I get charged after the fact I will. Yes it sucks, yes it's scary but they have a job to track this stuff down and if I do have to go in front of a judge, showing 100% compliance, and taking every step to make it legal in the first place, makes my best case. I'll get a lawyer when I need one, right now they are going to slow down a process and make their job harder which I dont feel is necessary. A lot of you wont agree. I just ask you to pray for me and my family. I'll report back in about 4 hours if I still can. Why would you have to give up your tax stamp if you haven't built it yet? You paid the ATF $200 to build a silencer. You haven't built it yet. |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:38:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: c5hardtop]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: Why would you have to give up your tax stamp if you haven't built it yet? You paid the ATF $200 to build a silencer. You haven't built it yet. He didn't build it yet, but his field office told him if had done so, it would have been seized and tax stamp would have been wasted (having already been used to build the seized item). |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: I bought a tri lug adapter from them in 2015. Should I contact my local ATF guy about it? I’ve moved since then. They sent the letter to my old address. The new home owners and I are friendly. No one has posted results of the inquiry of "I have a DM part that isn't not a silencer part" yet. Unclear on how or if they will follow up with anything beyond the letter. Did you get an email from Fedex about the letter being sent? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 2:13:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Logcutter: Thanks for posting. I contacted my local office. They checked my name, form-1, and sent me an email stating https://i.postimg.cc/LsY3QLRk/Screenshot-20220112-111842-2.png I simply called stating I had received a DM letter and asked if I could have an email contact to send a picture of my F1. Minutes from call to reply. Polite, professional, and quick. Yes, I understand that they "could" still come back about parts blah blah blah, but then I would have contact only through a lawyer and would have this documentation backing me up in court. After reading the above, I decided being proactive was better than having ATF at my door. Time will tell if ignoring the letter was a good idea, but I feel better about my odds of not having agents at my door over something I bent over to do legally. I was along the same thought process. I just printed the email, attached it to the letter and threw it in my lock box, hopefully to forever be forgotten... |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 2:18:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thorn653: Thanks for posting this. I was along the same thought process. I just printed the email, attached it to the letter and threw it in my lock box, hopefully to forever be forgotten... My plan as well. In it goes with the letter and stamp it relates to. One more exhibit that I've bent over backwards to abide by the law, even when it's changed multiple times....... |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 2:52:06 PM EDT
[#20]
I have survived to tell the tale. They came took the parts and gave me a receipt. Since I had not yet built a silencer with them and had not dedicated a form to the parts (I have 7 open forms), I was not required to surrender a stamp. I also asked to record the conversation but agreed to not post the recordingbpublically. But basically got verbal confirmation I was not in trouble and surrender of these parts were not self incriminating.
I also had to surrender the other items on the order (spacer rings). I had lost the 6" spacer tube so they just said that was fine as it was not the improper part. Even said rings or parts that are identical but without the dimple were 100% legal. But since the spacers came with the "silencer" the intent of the seller was silencer parts and therefore they had to collect what I had. If the tube turned up I needed to call them just it was of little concern as it was not the main part they needed anyway and they had the bulk of my 5 year old order. My story may not be over and may not be the same as someone else's, you should seek legal advice if you feel like you need it, but I think this is over now for me anyway and trusting my gut is how I operate best. Also I had called my local field office before the meeting today to confirm the agents were real (they were). And ask them questions. They field office was as blind as everyone else to the actual guidance, and didnt have a lot of answers but did say, if the DM case is changed or the ruling is reversed I'll get my parts back. It actually happens a lot. Also confirmed by the agents that came by that with each administration things change and what's legal one day isn't necessarily the next and to check the ATF website regularly to ensure compliance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 2:55:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: Also confirmed by the agents that came by that with each administration things change and what's legal one day isn't necessarily the next and to check the ATF website regularly to ensure compliance.  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: I have survived to tell the tale. They came took the parts and gave me a receipt. Since I had not yet built a silencer with them and had not dedicated a form to the parts (I have 7 open forms), I was not required to surrender a stamp. I also asked to record the conversation but agreed to not post the recordingbpublically. But basically got verbal confirmation I was not in trouble and surrender of these parts were not self incriminating. I also had to surrender the other items on the order (spacer rings). I had lost the 6" spacer tube so they just said that was fine as it was not the improper part. Even said rings or parts that are identical but without the dimple were 100% legal. But since the spacers came with the "silencer" the intent of the seller was silencer parts and therefore they had to collect what I had. If the tube turned up I needed to call them just it was of little concern as it was not the main part they needed anyway and they had the bulk of my 5 year old order. My story may not be over and may not be the same as someone else's, you should seek legal advice if you feel like you need it, but I think this is over now for me anyway and trusting my gut is how I operate best. Also I had called my local field office before the meeting today to confirm the agents were real (they were). And ask them questions. They field office was as blind as everyone else to the actual guidance, and didnt have a lot of answers but did say, if the DM case is changed or the ruling is reversed I'll get my parts back. It actually happens a lot. Also confirmed by the agents that came by that with each administration things change and what's legal one day isn't necessarily the next and to check the ATF website regularly to ensure compliance. I hope it works out for you but I would not have went that route. 1- I wouldn't unlock door unless they have a search warrant 2- I wouldn't say anything other than I want to speak to an attorney before speaking |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 3:46:57 PM EDT
[#23]
So here on this site, we have one person who has an email saying he is good because he has a form 1. Another member had a door knock from ATF who basically said his form 1 was no good even though it wasn't assembled and had to surrender. There is seriously no clarity whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 3:50:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Looked back at my history and the only thing I've ever ordered direct from DM was some raw Ti spacer tubing...
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:03:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By c5hardtop: No one has posted results of the inquiry of "I have a DM part that isn't not a silencer part" yet. Unclear on how or if they will follow up with anything beyond the letter. Did you get an email from Fedex about the letter being sent? I may have received the email. If I did, I deleted it without opening up the email. I wasn’t paying attention so I assumed it was FedEx about something I bought off Amazon. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:13:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: So here on this site, we have one person who has an email saying he is good because he has a form 1. Another member had a door knock from ATF who basically said his form 1 was no good even though it wasn't assembled and had to surrender. There is seriously no clarity whatsoever. There's more than one in the first catagory. Reading about other people's interaction with their field office made me decide that contacting them>them contacting me. Opinions obviously vary, but I like where I'm sitting right now. Not only did I obviously try to obey the law, but the ATF agent I contacted agreed with that. If .gov goes after parts people used in F1 cans, there is literally nothing you can do but STFU and have your lawyer do the talking. Now, if that still happens to me, I have that email to add to the stack of evidence that I complied with the law as recognized by the ATF at the time. My contact, and their quick, concise, polite response only made it more difficult to convict me in the future. FWIW, it is possible to contact the ATF without incriminating yourself. I never said I had any DM products. I simply stated I had received the letter and had a form-1 that I would be happy to email a picture of. I am not a lawyer, but I did talk with one before doing what I did. I was told that if I did not respond I risked a visit or raid. I saved a few bucks by calling myself, and cannot imagine a better outcome. Obviously YMMV |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:14:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: I may have received the email. If I did, I deleted it without opening up the email. I wasn’t paying attention so I assumed it was FedEx about something I bought off Amazon. I have a Fed ex account and was notified of pending delivery by a text. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:17:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU: Looked back at my history and the only thing I've ever ordered direct from DM was some raw Ti spacer tubing... 
|
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:21:39 PM EDT
[#29]
I also spoke with a local agent. Gave him form 1 info and was told all is good.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:26:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: I have survived to tell the tale. They came took the parts and gave me a receipt. Since I had not yet built a silencer with them and had not dedicated a form to the parts (I have 7 open forms), I was not required to surrender a stamp. I also asked to record the conversation but agreed to not post the recordingbpublically. But basically got verbal confirmation I was not in trouble and surrender of these parts were not self incriminating. I also had to surrender the other items on the order (spacer rings). I had lost the 6" spacer tube so they just said that was fine as it was not the improper part. Even said rings or parts that are identical but without the dimple were 100% legal. But since the spacers came with the "silencer" the intent of the seller was silencer parts and therefore they had to collect what I had. If the tube turned up I needed to call them just it was of little concern as it was not the main part they needed anyway and they had the bulk of my 5 year old order. My story may not be over and may not be the same as someone else's, you should seek legal advice if you feel like you need it, but I think this is over now for me anyway and trusting my gut is how I operate best. Also I had called my local field office before the meeting today to confirm the agents were real (they were). And ask them questions. They field office was as blind as everyone else to the actual guidance, and didnt have a lot of answers but did say, if the DM case is changed or the ruling is reversed I'll get my parts back. It actually happens a lot. Also confirmed by the agents that came by that with each administration things change and what's legal one day isn't necessarily the next and to check the ATF website regularly to ensure compliance. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:29:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47: Not today Mr. AFT man. AFT. Lol. |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:31:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: Also confirmed by the agents that came by that with each administration things change and what's legal one day isn't necessarily the next and to check the ATF website regularly to ensure compliance.  |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:40:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wipeout: I also spoke with a local agent. Gave him form 1 info and was told all is good.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 4:57:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: So here on this site, we have one person who has an email saying he is good because he has a form 1. Another member had a door knock from ATF who basically said his form 1 was no good even though it wasn't assembled and had to surrender. There is seriously no clarity whatsoever. Yup. It is... frustrating. But as renegadex pointed out, unless it comes from the top, individual agents might not be providing the correct interpretation. So, good for now, bad down the road when Washington DC issues marching orders. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 5:06:01 PM EDT
[#35]
after a list of phone numbers called, messages left with out return calls, and being forwarded to the DC branch telling me "they never turn their phones on in NM"
I dunno what the fuck to do. I'm tryin to do whatever the right thing is. if someone would actually call me back. I don't need this shit hanging over my head I've got a hundred other things going on like fuckin employees popping covid tests at the moment as well. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 5:39:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: after a list of phone numbers called, messages left with out return calls, and being forwarded to the DC branch telling me "they never turn their phones on in NM" I dunno what the fuck to do. I'm tryin to do whatever the right thing is. if someone would actually call me back. I don't need this shit hanging over my head I've got a hundred other things going on like fuckin employees popping covid tests at the moment as well. That sucks. I would probably make a copy of the letter, my form-1, and mail it in to the local address registered mail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 6:39:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Chris Ridenour owned Diversified Machine, correct?
I printed my emails from 2015, Im just double checking. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 6:44:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: So here on this site, we have one person who has an email saying he is good because he has a form 1. Another member had a door knock from ATF who basically said his form 1 was no good even though it wasn't assembled and had to surrender. There is seriously no clarity whatsoever. Just speculation, but if the ATF is saying the end cap dimple makes it a suppressor, it makes sense (kind of, at least) that they are confiscating the unbuilt solvent traps, but not the legally built suppressors. They can't prove an end cap was dimpled when it is now drilled. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 6:51:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: Chris Ridenour owned Diversified Machine, correct? I printed my emails from 2015, Im just double checking. Yes |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 7:08:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VeritatisUnus]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigPolska: Yup. It is... frustrating. But as renegadex pointed out, unless it comes from the top, individual agents might not be providing the correct interpretation. So, good for now, bad down the road when Washington DC issues marching orders. I see where they are going. They want to prove intent on the part of the manufacturer that the parts being sold were intended to be suppressors. The dimples on the cones and end cap, they are saying shows intent (from the manufacturer). If you have a kit completed into a form 1, the dimples are gone, and you as a buyer, registered the item, which shows your intent to comply with the law, but doesn’t help their case against the manufacturer because there are no dimples showing the manufacturer’s intent… however, if you have not built the can, and have the dimpled items, they want those back to use against the manufacturer to show intent, regardless of having a form 1 or not… see what I mean?… Bottom line is they want to go after the manufacturer not the customers. It would be way too messy to go after individual customers, especially those who have showed they comply with the law as best that can be interpreted. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 10:14:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Timberwulfen]
[#41]
How many of you have trusts that are all pre 41F? I was thinking about it. I never did a personal F1/4 or one that required a background check after 41F. They didnt know I had any stamps at all and were kinda shocked when I produces a binder. So it may be why they came to my house...and I didnt get a fedex. They may be fishing for non compliant cans.
Alao they were taking the can either way if it had been finished. They siad it was deemed an illegal suppressor (endcap) that couldnt be made legal with a form 1 after the fact (which holds true with other interpretations). So I would have lost the stamp and can had I not been so laze in building them and been so diligent in registering a ton of pre 41F forms. And if they screwed up and weren't supposed to take anyone's can at least it was me, I have more than one can and a stamp didnt get knocked off the books. I can still build that can some day, just not with those parts...oh well. If someone had only 1 can and lost it would suck a lot worse. I'm just glad it all went down as I had hoped the best for. Yes it sucks and yes I almost had a heart attack. But we all acted civil and at least for now I have kept my faith in our flag...the way it all occurred ticks me off but that's not the agents fault, they were actually pretty cool about it all. Lastly did you all get letters via Fedex or USPS? I didnt get any but I just realized a lot of you said FEDEX and I'm surprised it was though our Federal postal system. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#42]
when fed ex delivered mine, I had to sign for it.
the post office is so unreliable even the ATF won't use them 
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2022 11:28:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: when fed ex delivered mine, I had to sign for it. the post office is so unreliable even the ATF won't use them Interesting. They just left the envelope on my front porch. No signature. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 9:48:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Logcutter: Interesting. They just left the envelope on my front porch. No signature. Same and they delivered it to my old residence. Of course that address was where I lived in 2015 when I ordered the tri lug adapter from DM. |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 10:46:05 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timberwulfen: How many of you have trusts that are all pre 41F? I was thinking about it. I never did a personal F1/4 or one that required a background check after 41F. They didnt know I had any stamps at all and were kinda shocked when I produces a binder. So it may be why they came to my house...and I didnt get a fedex. They may be fishing for non compliant cans. Alao they were taking the can either way if it had been finished. They siad it was deemed an illegal suppressor (endcap) that couldnt be made legal with a form 1 after the fact (which holds true with other interpretations). So I would have lost the stamp and can had I not been so laze in building them and been so diligent in registering a ton of pre 41F forms. And if they screwed up and weren't supposed to take anyone's can at least it was me, I have more than one can and a stamp didnt get knocked off the books. I can still build that can some day, just not with those parts...oh well. If someone had only 1 can and lost it would suck a lot worse. I'm just glad it all went down as I had hoped the best for. Yes it sucks and yes I almost had a heart attack. But we all acted civil and at least for now I have kept my faith in our flag...the way it all occurred ticks me off but that's not the agents fault, they were actually pretty cool about it all. Lastly did you all get letters via Fedex or USPS? I didnt get any but I just realized a lot of you said FEDEX and I'm surprised it was though our Federal postal system. People that ordered Cratus47/95 kits have been getting in person visits over the last 6 months or so and should be considered in a separate group. They didn't get fedex letters. 95-99%+ of cases appear to be tied to website or DM's Stamps.com account. In any case, those people got Fedex letters, and email from fedex about the delivery that was probably easy to miss. DM knows stamps.com is a one source, or the primary source. They have emails and addresses and DM's former owner's family and friends that got personal packages from him got atf letters also (from stamps.com account). Two people have reported other people on trust got letters, indicating they matched names with trusts in a couple cases Everyone I know (including me) that ordered by email didn't get letters or visits. A member on another forum claims to have a friend that ordered by email and paid with paypal that got a letter. Your the only person to get a visit and no letter, and not have a Cratus kit. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 11:00:13 AM EDT
[#46]
FWIW, it seems like my local Minnesotans have all had similar experiences. That said, they all also had F1 cans. Nobody was in the build process with parts.
After a day to mull it over, I'm still glad I handled it by calling. My wife would lose her mind if the ATF showed up at the door unannounced......
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 5:36:42 PM EDT
[#47]
I dont see how an undrilled dimpled end cap is a suppressor part, but I can buy an end cap for my omega 300 that has a hole in it and everything ready to go and is clearly intended to be a silencer part, but that is 100% ok.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 5:48:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Logcutter]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Iwantfullauto: I dont see how an undrilled dimpled end cap is a suppressor part, but I can buy an end cap for my omega 300 that has a hole in it and everything ready to go and is clearly intended to be a silencer part, but that is 100% ok. You just clearly stated why I won't ever dip my foot into the Form-1 pool ever again. Especially with e-file up and running for form-4's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 6:10:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Iwantfullauto: I dont see how an undrilled dimpled end cap is a suppressor part, but I can buy an end cap for my omega 300 that has a hole in it and everything ready to go and is clearly intended to be a silencer part, but that is 100% ok. Yes these modular silencers do seem to be more of a silencer part than a solvent trap end cap with a dimple. You can buy end caps mounts to convert a piston to a fixed mount, you can buy spacers for pistons to make them fixed and you can buy different end caps. You can buy mounts to convert to 3 lug and on and on…. None of it makes any sense at all….. |
|
|
|
CO, USA
|
Posted: 1/13/2022 6:53:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Well, there is a pretty big difference. With a F4 it's already registered and transferred. Another end cap is intended for the registered suppressor you legally own. An end cap for an F1 is initially for an unregistered and unmade suppressor. It only gets registered when someone legally files the F1 and is approved.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
