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Posted: 8/20/2013 10:29:46 PM EDT
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I want to do another test involving getting a Mini-14 dirty, this time with mud. Since a lot of the panty knots from the Mini-14 dust test were 'it's a old Mini, test a new one' and 'the AR had it's door shut when dusted' I'd like to get feedback as to what constitutes a 'fair' test.
What I'm thinking of doing is run 5 rounds thru each rifle, then coat in mud, fire 5 rounds, recoat with mud, fire 5 rounds, recoat, until 30 rounds have been fired. Test stops when the rifle has its first malfunction. Rifles I'd like to test are a 580 series Mini-14, an AR15*, a SCAR, a FS2000, and a AK, to serve as a control. H *I was thinking to do the first run on the AR will be with the ejection port door shut, then each run after that be with the door open. Link to the original dust test: http://youtu.be/WcfqZFWpk9s |
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http://youtu.be/WcfqZFWpk9s
I'm surprised the Ruger went downhill so quickly. The AUG doesn't surprise me, they are inherently reliable. I would like to see a trigger pack filled with dirt side by side next to an AK. I would not doubt the AUG would come out on top. Nice test. |
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The one area where the AUG concerned me is the left side of the receiver where the CH runs. That area had a _lot_ of dust captured there. So much dust that the CH was getting hard to move after I was done.
Now, you don't normally need to run the CH on a AUG A3 since you've got the bolt release on the stock, but still, I expect that the AUG would lose head to head with a AK. H |
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Quoted:
No panty knots here, like I have said in your last posts, that mini is broken. I will copy your tests asap. With a greased gun. So you're going to do a dust and/or mud test with a greased gun? The mixture of grease and dirt is about the worst possible scenario for a firearm, the two combine to form an abrasive, concrete-like sludge. There is a reason the world's armies run their firearms as dry as possible in desert environments. The design of the Mini-14 (and the Garand, M-14, BM-59 etc.) predisposes it to getting terminally choked with dirt very easily. The receiver is very open, the bolt and receiver locking recesses are fully exposed, the raceways for the bolt and op-rod are external, and the tolerances are fairly tight. The key to running well in a dusty or muddy environment is to keep the dust/mud from entering the action of the weapon. Some rifles, like the AK, will tolerate a certain amount of dirt within their actions and still run reliably. Most rifles can be coated in mud and run well, as long as their insides are clean. Unfortunately, if a Mini-14 is externally coated in mud, its operating mechanism has already been compromised. There is no way of keeping the dirt out of a Mini-14, short of keeping it in a case. |
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Quoted:
So you're going to do a dust and/or mud test with a greased gun? The mixture of grease and dirt is about the worst possible scenario for a firearm, the two combine to form an abrasive, concrete-like sludge. There is a reason the world's armies run their firearms as dry as possible in desert environments. The design of the Mini-14 (and the Garand, M-14, BM-59 etc.) predisposes it to getting terminally choked with dirt very easily. The receiver is very open, the bolt and receiver locking recesses are fully exposed, the raceways for the bolt and op-rod are external, and the tolerances are fairly tight. The key to running well in a dusty or muddy environment is to keep the dust/mud from entering the action of the weapon. Some rifles, like the AK, will tolerate a certain amount of dirt within their actions and still run reliably. Most rifles can be coated in mud and run well, as long as their insides are clean. Unfortunately, if a Mini-14 is externally coated in mud, its operating mechanism has already been compromised. There is no way of keeping the dirt out of a Mini-14, short of keeping it in a case. Quoted:
Quoted:
No panty knots here, like I have said in your last posts, that mini is broken. I will copy your tests asap. With a greased gun. So you're going to do a dust and/or mud test with a greased gun? The mixture of grease and dirt is about the worst possible scenario for a firearm, the two combine to form an abrasive, concrete-like sludge. There is a reason the world's armies run their firearms as dry as possible in desert environments. The design of the Mini-14 (and the Garand, M-14, BM-59 etc.) predisposes it to getting terminally choked with dirt very easily. The receiver is very open, the bolt and receiver locking recesses are fully exposed, the raceways for the bolt and op-rod are external, and the tolerances are fairly tight. The key to running well in a dusty or muddy environment is to keep the dust/mud from entering the action of the weapon. Some rifles, like the AK, will tolerate a certain amount of dirt within their actions and still run reliably. Most rifles can be coated in mud and run well, as long as their insides are clean. Unfortunately, if a Mini-14 is externally coated in mud, its operating mechanism has already been compromised. There is no way of keeping the dirt out of a Mini-14, short of keeping it in a case. You are correct, the mini does pack up with dirt badly. I have filled one with dirt before in the past, room mate was talking up his AK. Clean and greased Mini, CLP on AK. Action open no mag, applying dirt to each rifle. Doing it this way gives the mini an tremendous advantage against other rifles. The trigger group and holes that access are covered by the bolt and op rod. And any dirt can freely fall through the mag well. The rifles were then picked up, actions racked a few times to be sure there was no major bindage, chambers and bores were checked, a mag inserted and then rifles were fired. The mini would fire, eject, strip the new round and almost feed it, requiring a push on the charging handle to finish re-chambering. This continued for a few shots until it would cycle about 50/50. After 20 rounds the rifle had shaken enough dirt out of its self to run properly. It fed, and extracted properly the whole time. The AK had an interesting problem, we have concluded the gun was not at fault. Same safety checks. Mag inserted and gun racked, went in to battery fine. Or so it seemed. The soft pointed MFS ammo the AK was eating shed the lead tip and it sat on the tail edge of the chamber. Not allowing the the bolt completely in to battery. The hammer dropped but the AKs safety mechanisms prevented the firing pin from being struck. Malf drill done, next round same thing. Inspected and found the lead build up. AK lead removed, ak ran properly but cycled in to battery slow. I was talking shit on the expensive AK choking when the cheap mini still went bang. So out came the dirt again. More, same checks, mini chokes same as before but still shooting just slowly due to pushing the bolt home. AK runs fine but slow going in to battery. Blasted a quick aerosol spray of clp in to rifles, mini returns to 100% function, AK trigger proceeds to stop resetting. We called the test off at this point and went back home to spend a long time cleaning rifles. It is also possible to stop a mini just by getting shit in the fore arm channel, especially with the Choate machine and tool vented hand guard. Mini greased like a M1A mostly. Very very thin layer of moly grease from walmart. Mini is greased in Cali summer time, lube stays put. Winter in Ak, it was just clp. |
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