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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:29:14 AM EDT
[#1]
I was a holdout until May 30, did the eForm but mailed the prints and pictures.
I got one approval on Friday and the other this morning. 116 and 119 days respectively. However, the fact they are working on May 30 submissions suggests they are probably almost all the way through the glut of Form 1s caused by the pistol brace rule and things might get back to normal soon. After the almost inevitable government shut down of course. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:52:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DakotaFAL]
[#2]
As to what happens when the rule is almost certainly over turned:
The ATF could decide the NFA registration of braced pistols as SBRs is no longer valid as the basis for the requirement was over turned. However, that tools no doubt result in additional law suits being filed. One of the alleged harms will be the costs incurred by applicants for finger print fees, photo fees, in some cases electronic filing services, and in other cases postage, plus time, travel and inconvenience to the applicant. The remedy there would be to offer the approved applicant the option of maintaining the firearm in the NFA registry as an SBR. They could either waive engraving requirement or just allow the registered owner to submit a photo of the engraved receiver. Another alleged harm is the fact that the ATF declared now no longer NFA items are still registered and that information is still contained in a data base, along with the applicants’s personal information and finger prints. Does anyone trust the ATF, FBI , and other agencies involved in the background checks to delete that information? Trust issues and difficulty of proving the information was clawed back and deleted aside, the ATF, FBI, etc won’t want to delete that information and this may decide to just let the registered SBRs remain SBRs to avoid a potential legal case that would open that can of worms. However, based on 12 years as a fed inside the beltway dealing with three administration and a boat load of political appointees, common sense and or a long term plan won’t have much to do with the decision making process. After all, this rule still went forward despite clearly violating the Administrative Procedures Act, and despite already extant Chevron Deference and Rule of Lenity legal and challenges with a high probability of success, just because the administration wanted it to happen. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 10:13:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EDL]
[#3]
And that is precisely how that stuff works...they know it was illegal, but they do it anyway and force us to go through the trouble and motions to challenge it. That's how our government is now, they'll make whatever rules, laws, executive orders, etc regardless of what is legal or not in hopes that it won't get challenged or people will just bow down and accept it. They also know that if it does get challenged, it'll take months, if not years, for it to slog through the slow-roll. They don't care, they just want to get their way, it's all about control.
You can bet that whatever happens IF the ban is over turned, it won't be convenient, it won't be easy and it won't make any sense. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:56:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Five submitted on 31 May.
All of them still remain "Submitted in Progress" |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 9:09:28 PM EDT
[#5]
I did 6 of them, all approved in about 60 days.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2023 9:26:43 PM EDT
[#6]
I submitted 4 in April and still haven’t got back any. Still waiting on 2 suppressors submitted in January.
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WLF
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Posted: 10/4/2023 7:35:32 AM EDT
[#7]
I submitted four on May 31st. They all came back mid September over two days. One I thought would be rejected because the serial number was not in the photo was approved without issue.
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Posted: 10/4/2023 8:37:14 AM EDT
[#8]
My one and only (submitted May 26) was approved yesterday.
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Posted: 10/4/2023 1:34:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Crazy 'coincidence"..prob not....
Saw the thread this morning and my 1 and only filing was made May 26. Went to the site and it still showed in pending status. 2 hours later I get an email saying' approved.' First time I've ever been Tax Exempt on anything in my life. Still not happy about it, but that is another discussion altogether. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2023 8:48:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Yesterday was Christmas in October. All 4 of my free SBR stamps approved. And 2 suppressors submitted in January were approved. Weird thing is both suppressors were under my trust and the free ones were as an individual
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Posted: 10/24/2023 11:44:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brywilli: Yesterday was Christmas in October. All 4 of my free SBR stamps approved. And 2 suppressors submitted in January were approved. Weird thing is both suppressors were under my trust and the free ones were as an individual when were the brace forms filed? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2023 5:45:51 PM EDT
[#12]
I did 18, All were the night before amnesty expired. 8 were approved in around 3 weeks. I was declined due to a form error and needed to be redone and sent in manually. 9 are still sitting in the queue. No idea why, no ryme or reason.
I had wondered if they were perhaps stopping the approval process now that a judge has all bur ruled it fubar. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2023 6:21:45 PM EDT
[#13]
My guess is they’re all still legal under the proposed rule until the proposed rule is no more. So free SBR until the rule saying they are an SHR goes away. It could be in limbo for 49 years for all we know.
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Posted: 10/25/2023 7:09:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By moorekris: I did 18, All were the night before amnesty expired. 8 were approved in around 3 weeks. I was declined due to a form error and needed to be redone and sent in manually. 9 are still sitting in the queue. No idea why, no ryme or reason. I had wondered if they were perhaps stopping the approval process now that a judge has all bur ruled it fubar. I sent in a bunch and got a decline today for 1 for not submitting my fingerprints which is bullshit because I sent in electronic prints for all of them. Wonder when they are going to send my fingerprint cards I requested |
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Posted: 10/29/2023 9:48:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Five months and still waiting
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/30/2023 5:02:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DM1975: Five months and still waiting Same here, Five months to the day and still waiting. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/30/2023 5:35:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Are you still required to admit to committing a federal felony?
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2023 1:25:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eviioiive: Are you still required to admit to committing a federal felony? It's over and done with - so no. Also you were never "required to admit to committing a federal felony"  What you were required to admit to was that you met the qualifications to apply for a form 1 tax free. |
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Posted: 10/31/2023 1:34:48 PM EDT
[#19]
47 tax stamps later. No engraving, no 922r, and it was fast tracked F-1 with an average of 22 days.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2023 2:24:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crazyelece: It's over and done with - so no. Also you were never "required to admit to committing a federal felony" What you were required to admit to was that you met the qualifications to apply for a form 1 tax free. I don’t think you understand how the government and lawyers work… By acknowledging that you meet the stipulated qualifications, one implicitly acknowledges culpability, as the granting of "amnesty" would otherwise be unnecessary. |
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Posted: 11/1/2023 10:07:38 AM EDT
[#21]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 12:56:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eviioiive: I don’t think you understand how the government and lawyers work… By acknowledging that you meet the stipulated qualifications, one implicitly acknowledges culpability, as the granting of "amnesty" would otherwise be unnecessary. Except for the fact that you could both acknowledge the stipulations and NOT have an illegal SBR by having the brace removed and having another legal use for it (ie. a rifle it could be used on). There was also no amnesty, just a tax free registration period. But feel free to spout rumors as truths, you could even go old school and tell of the tales of an approved NFA form allows the ATF to come to your home for inspections anytime they want. |
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Posted: 11/7/2023 4:01:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eviioiive: I don’t think you understand how the government and lawyers work… By acknowledging that you meet the stipulated qualifications, one implicitly acknowledges culpability, as the granting of "amnesty" would otherwise be unnecessary. Nobody in here cares what you think. No movement on my 6 applications sent in the week before the deadline. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2023 2:42:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Might all be for naught...
https://thereload.com/federal-judge-blocks-nationwide-enforcement-of-pistol-brace-ban/ |
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Posted: 11/9/2023 7:24:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EDL: Might all be for naught... https://thereload.com/federal-judge-blocks-nationwide-enforcement-of-pistol-brace-ban/ It's nice to see the rule tossed. I'd like to see a judge say SBR's are now common use and remove them from the NFA. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: I doubt the ruling effects the registered guns. It's nice to see the rule tossed. I'd like to see a judge say SBR's are now common use and remove them from the NFA. I hope it doesn't invalidate the approvals granted under Brace Rule, but all of my approvals state "Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021-08F". So, now how do I regard the legality of the braced pistols that have been converted to actual stocks? |
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Posted: 11/10/2023 10:26:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beanz2: I hope it doesn't invalidate the approvals granted under Brace Rule, but all of my approvals state "Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021-08F". So, now how do I regard the legality of the braced pistols that have been converted to actual stocks? |
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Posted: 11/10/2023 10:50:05 AM EDT
[#28]
You got an approved and signed form 1, you have a sbr.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 10:59:25 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't think this is over yet either way. I'm sure there will be appeals, maybe even going to the SCOTUS eventually. This is just a temporary stay in until a final decision is made. So, I would think for now, our brace SBRs are still good AND the braced pistols are good again. So for me, I can leave my stock on and keep it as an SBR, but if I want to go out of state with it, I can put the brace back on and not have to fill out a 5320.20 form. Best of both worlds for now until a final decision is made.
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Posted: 11/10/2023 11:38:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bballman25: I don't think this is over yet either way. I'm sure there will be appeals, maybe even going to the SCOTUS eventually. This is just a temporary stay in until a final decision is made. So, I would think for now, our brace SBRs are still good AND the braced pistols are good again. So for me, I can leave my stock on and keep it as an SBR, but if I want to go out of state with it, I can put the brace back on and not have to fill out a 5320.20 form. Best of both worlds for now until a final decision is made. I don't think that how this works.... A registered SBR is an SBR regardless of which piece of rubber you stick on it |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 11:51:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NvrBrdWes: I don't think that how this works.... A registered SBR is an SBR regardless of which piece of rubber you stick on it No, if I put a 16” upper on it, it’s a regular rifle now. It’s only a SBR when it’s in a SBR configuration. If a brace is no longer considered a stock, with a brace on it would again be considered a pistol. Back to a SBR when I put the stock back on. Should be that way anyway… |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 12:19:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bballman25: No, if I put a 16” upper on it, it’s a regular rifle now. It’s only a SBR when it’s in a SBR configuration. If a brace is no longer considered a stock, with a brace on it would again be considered a pistol. Back to a SBR when I put the stock back on. Should be that way anyway… I agree with your assessment. Even removing the stock from a SBR makes it NOT a SBR. It will always be on the registry, yes, but a rifle that has been approved as a SBR is only an NFA item when configured in a manner outlined by the NFA. This makes having a pistol brace for out of state excursions with your kit once again a viable way to avoid having to notifying BATFE about crossing state lines with your gun, or swapping out the barrel. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 1:52:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beanz2: I hope it doesn't invalidate the approvals granted under Brace Rule, but all of my approvals state "Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021-08F". So, now how do I regard the legality of the braced pistols that have been converted to actual stocks? Right now, you don't have to do anything. There will be appeals and more appeals. Good thing is that no one can get busted for a braced pistol. As for as it being invalidated....no one knows yet. ATF might say "fuck it, keep it", or they might say "hey, the underlying rule was vacated, because of that, take it out of an NFA status or pay $200 for a stamp". I don't know if the ATF cares one way or another (everyone is already registered regardless, and it isn't like that money goes to the ATF's coffers), but that is potentially $50M in tax revenue that someone in politics or at the IRS is going to say "That is low hanging fruit. Go get that chedda from those evil gun owners". |
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Posted: 11/10/2023 2:19:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NvrBrdWes: I don't think that how this works.... A registered SBR is an SBR regardless of which piece of rubber you stick on it |
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Posted: 11/10/2023 2:43:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: SBR's made from pistols can be returned to pistols at anytime without notifying the ATF. Once in title one configuration NFA rules don't apply. Good to know |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2023 3:29:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Just recently heard about the sbr tax exemption. Is it still possible to file for a sbr without paying $200??
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Posted: 11/10/2023 3:55:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Johnson184: Just recently heard about the sbr tax exemption. Is it still possible to file for a sbr without paying $200?? LEOs can do it all the time though, for official use, and it can be a privately owned SBR (if their agency is ok with it). Some agencies don't allow privately owned weapons to be used on duty though, so it just depends. But once it is Form 5'd back to the officer, it's just like any other NFA weapon they'd have, just no registration or transfer tax was paid on it. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:21:26 AM EDT
[#38]
I’d be interested to know if any free SBR applications are approved after the court ordered stay.
I know they can’t enforce the rule as far as prosecutions go but I don’t know if it has any bearing on pending applications. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:42:22 PM EDT
[#39]
I still have one pending. Submitted six in mid May. All have slow rolled in, with the fifth approved in September. Last one is nowhere to be seen still.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 10:59:15 AM EDT
[#40]
my third and final free brace sbr (which was denied back on 09/01 because I forgot to digitally sign it) that I mailed corrections on (09/07) was approved 11/06 and arrived via snail mail yesterday.
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Posted: 11/15/2023 11:48:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Princeton: I’d be interested to know if any free SBR applications are approved after the court ordered stay. I know they can’t enforce the rule as far as prosecutions go but I don’t know if it has any bearing on pending applications. Unless the justice department tells them to stop , it will be business as usual. 5 per day approved 😂 |
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Posted: 11/15/2023 12:20:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Five submitted on 31 May.
All five STILL remain in "SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS" limbo. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2023 10:06:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3-gun: Unless the justice department tells them to stop , it will be business as usual. 5 per day approved 😂 Only if they work through lunch. Otherwise it is 3 or 4 on a good day. |
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Posted: 11/16/2023 10:22:51 AM EDT
[#44]
I just had an SBS eform 1 approved in 3 weeks by Carol Ripley after she emailed me to modify one line on the form and approved it immediately when I did. 14 working days.
I asked if she could look at my brace form, she didn’t reply. My brace eform was submitted Feb 4 on the same trust, same RP… I can only believe they just aren’t going to work these any more. I can’t even imagine why it has sat untouched for 9 months. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/18/2023 8:47:36 PM EDT
[#45]
So the real question I haven’t been able to get an answer to is what happens to the amnesty forms 1s now that the law is enjoined? Additionally what happens if it inevitably gets overturned ?
I have a few amnesty forms (all approved) and one that was approved that I found a mistake on . The response I got when I tried to get it fixed was a canned : “Good afternoon, ATF is temporarily enjoined from enforcing the Stabilizing Brace Final Rule due to pending litigation in Federal courts. Your correspondence will remain in pending status while this preliminary injunction remains in effect.” When I asked about what happens to the approved forms I got the same canned answer. |
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Posted: 11/18/2023 8:51:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fallout15: So the real question I haven't been able to get an answer to is what happens to the amnesty forms 1s now that the law is enjoined? Additionally what happens if it inevitably gets overturned ? I have a few amnesty forms (all approved) and one that was approved that I found a mistake on . The response I got when I tried to get it fixed was a canned : "Good afternoon, ATF is temporarily enjoined from enforcing the Stabilizing Brace Final Rule due to pending litigation in Federal courts. Your correspondence will remain in pending status while this preliminary injunction remains in effect." When I asked about what happens to the approved forms I got the same canned answer. |
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Posted: 11/18/2023 8:59:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Most likely they let you keep them on the registry if you want to. This. I cannot see them saying they are null and void. that would open them up for more trouble with the 200k people that did what they told them to do. plus they can use it as a dry run for all semi auto. if I have to pay the 200 bucks on mine I will. the only ones that will make me sad or the 2 true hk sp5 and sp5k cause I was happy I did not have to engrave. |
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Posted: 11/18/2023 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#48]
This^^
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/18/2023 9:32:16 PM EDT
[#49]
There is a little red “condition” though that worries me at the bottom of all approved amnesty forms. Also don’t forget this is the ATF after all …
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Posted: 11/19/2023 12:02:29 AM EDT
[#50]
I think the condition means that the gun didn't have to be engraved and didn't have to comply with 922r. I think they are going to stay SBRs when/if the rule is shot down years from now. Many now have proper stocks on them and I can't see the ATF saying, umm ya take the stock off your rifle and it's now a pistol, wink wink. It would be interesting to see if the the conditional stamp stays with the gun if it was transferred on a form 4.
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