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Posted: 2/4/2015 4:40:22 AM EDT
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Is it possible to say buy a barrel or another part that would be used for an SBR conversion and give it to a friend for safe keeping till the stamp is approved and pick it up from them? Or what is ok and what is not ok? The intent to construct thing is really confusing. It's not like if you have the two parts in the same house they will magically construct themselves.  |
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If your friend holding the barrel doesn't have an AR, then that is certainly ok. You wouldn't get charged with intent; you'd be charged with possession, which would be argued (in a stretch) as "constructive possession." In general, that strikes me as a very weak case, and someone would have to especially hate YOU for whatever reason for the state to even consider it. Like after they find your meth lab or something. I think most people worry about this sort of stuff way too much, but that's just my thinking. I am not a lawyer, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  |
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Quoted:
Is it possible to say buy a barrel or another part that would be used for an SBR conversion and give it to a friend for safe keeping till the stamp is approved and pick it up from them? Or what is ok and what is not ok? The intent to construct thing is really confusing. It's not like if you have the two parts in the same house they will magically construct themselves.
Do you have a spare lower lying around? just buy a $20 pistol buffer tube and build it into a pistol which would give you a legal use for it and store all the short barrels you want |
| The best policy - and the one I follow - is to keep a spare pistol lower handy to ensure that any short upper you have is mated to a Title 1 gun. For ex. - I am building a Seekins 10.5" SBR and expect the stamp back this week or next; for the time being, my upper is living on a Mag Tac pistol lower. |
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Another member recently posted a pic of a fully assembled SBR (no stamp) minus the stock (it had a 6 position receiver extension installed) and I was told that was perfectly fine. Even though I disagreed. It is fine. If it has not been assembled as a rifle beforehand, a complete lower with a short upper is just a pistol (assuming no stock is on it) |
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Quoted: It is fine. If it has not been assembled as a rifle beforehand, a complete lower with a short upper is just a pistol (assuming no stock is on it) Quoted: Quoted: Another member recently posted a pic of a fully assembled SBR (no stamp) minus the stock (it had a 6 position receiver extension installed) and I was told that was perfectly fine. Even though I disagreed. It is fine. If it has not been assembled as a rifle beforehand, a complete lower with a short upper is just a pistol (assuming no stock is on it) Pistol lowers are legally, though not physically, different than rife lowers. Meaning that as far as the law is concerned, my SR15 doesn't become a pistol when I take the buffer tube or stock off. As I understand it, Once a rifle always a rifle. If you are sbr'ing a lower manufactured as a pistol this is ok. NOT a rifle lower. This being said, constructive intent cases are exceedingly rare. |
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Pistol lowers are legally, though not physically, different than rife lowers. Meaning that as far as the law is concerned, my SR15 doesn't become a pistol when I take the buffer tube or stock off. As I understand it, Once a rifle always a rifle. If you are sbr'ing a lower manufactured as a pistol this is ok. NOT a rifle lower. Quoted:
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Another member recently posted a pic of a fully assembled SBR (no stamp) minus the stock (it had a 6 position receiver extension installed) and I was told that was perfectly fine. Even though I disagreed. It is fine. If it has not been assembled as a rifle beforehand, a complete lower with a short upper is just a pistol (assuming no stock is on it) Pistol lowers are legally, though not physically, different than rife lowers. Meaning that as far as the law is concerned, my SR15 doesn't become a pistol when I take the buffer tube or stock off. As I understand it, Once a rifle always a rifle. If you are sbr'ing a lower manufactured as a pistol this is ok. NOT a rifle lower. <----FFL There is starting to be some misinformation in this thread. An AR lower is just that....a lower receiver. There is no such thing as a "pistol lower" or "rifle lower". Firearm frames and receivers are considered "Other Firearms"....meaning they are not handguns or long guns until completely assembled. (see the instructions on the 4473) Even if you have a supposed "complete lower" (lower with buttstock) its NOT a rifle until it also has a rifled barrel attached. If you have an AR lower marked PISTOL...........it ain't....it's a lower and the word PISTOL is meaningless. If an AR lower is built first into a handgun, it can then be built later into a rifle. It can also be converted back to a handgun without violating Federal law. See: https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf ATF issued this ruling 3 1/2 years ago, yet there are guys who still post the "once a rifle, always a rifle" nonsense. Since July 2011 it's "First a rifle. always a rifle"  Why the change? We can thank Thompson Center and the US Supreme Court who handed down a decision in 1992. It only took ATF nineteen years to issue their ruling.
This being said, constructive intent cases are exceedingly rare. No such thing as "constructive intent".......the term is "constructive possession". |
| So hypothetically i could by a complete LMT defender lower with a buttstock. Take the buttstock off. Slap a 10 inch upper onto that lower. And as long as the buttstock stays off i can shoot and show off my new complete rifle because its not complete unless it has a buttstock. And it can remain in that configuration while i wait on my tax stamp |
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Quoted:
Pistol lowers are legally, though not physically, different than rife lowers. Meaning that as far as the law is concerned, my SR15 doesn't become a pistol when I take the buffer tube or stock off. As I understand it, Once a rifle always a rifle. If you are sbr'ing a lower manufactured as a pistol this is ok. NOT a rifle lower. This being said, constructive intent cases are exceedingly rare. Quoted:
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Another member recently posted a pic of a fully assembled SBR (no stamp) minus the stock (it had a 6 position receiver extension installed) and I was told that was perfectly fine. Even though I disagreed. It is fine. If it has not been assembled as a rifle beforehand, a complete lower with a short upper is just a pistol (assuming no stock is on it) Pistol lowers are legally, though not physically, different than rife lowers. Meaning that as far as the law is concerned, my SR15 doesn't become a pistol when I take the buffer tube or stock off. As I understand it, Once a rifle always a rifle. If you are sbr'ing a lower manufactured as a pistol this is ok. NOT a rifle lower. This being said, constructive intent cases are exceedingly rare. If it starts as a rifle you'd be correct. If you purchase a lower that has never been assembled into a rifle you're perfectly fine. If it is first assembled as a pistol you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle. If it is first assembled as a rifle you're stuck. |
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So hypothetically i could by a complete LMT defender lower with a buttstock. Take the buttstock off. Slap a 10 inch upper onto that lower. And as long as the buttstock stays off i can shoot and show off my new complete rifle because its not complete unless it has a buttstock. And it can remain in that configuration while i wait on my tax stamp No. Having that buttstock laying around can be construed as "constructive possession"........because you still have control and possession. Constructive possession |
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No. Having that buttstock laying around can be construed as "constructive possession"........because you still have control and possession. Constructive possession Quoted:
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So hypothetically i could by a complete LMT defender lower with a buttstock. Take the buttstock off. Slap a 10 inch upper onto that lower. And as long as the buttstock stays off i can shoot and show off my new complete rifle because its not complete unless it has a buttstock. And it can remain in that configuration while i wait on my tax stamp No. Having that buttstock laying around can be construed as "constructive possession"........because you still have control and possession. Constructive possession Correct - but have the stock stored away from you (for example in a friends safe) and your AR pistol is legal, even with a bare carbine tube. |
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