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Posted: 5/20/2014 5:09:35 AM EDT
| I have 2 lowers that are SBR and have two pistol lowers with Sig Brace. The reason I have not SBR the pistol lowers is because it is much easier to take a pistol across state lines vs having to get approval for SBR. My question is, can you convert an SBR lower back to a pistol lower simply by changing the stock back to the SIG brace/pistol tube? If this is the case, I would go ahead and SBR the pistol lowers as well. |
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I have 2 lowers that are SBR and have two pistol lowers with Sig Brace. The reason I have not SBR the pistol lowers is because it is much easier to take a pistol across state lines vs having to get approval for SBR. My question is, can you convert an SBR lower back to a pistol lower simply by changing the stock back to the SIG brace/pistol tube? If this is the case, I would go ahead and SBR the pistol lowers as well. No. Once you've made an NFA item it will remain a rifle. |
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If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... Of the two SBR I currently have, 1 is a factory built Noveske and 1 is a Noveske that was a pistol now SBR. The 3 I would submit are all Noveske stripped lowers. |
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Quoted: Of the two SBR I currently have, 1 is a factory built Noveske and 1 is a Noveske that was a pistol now SBR. The 3 I would submit are all Noveske stripped lowers. Quoted: Quoted: If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... Of the two SBR I currently have, 1 is a factory built Noveske and 1 is a Noveske that was a pistol now SBR. The 3 I would submit are all Noveske stripped lowers.  |
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If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. |
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Quoted: I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. Quoted: Quoted: If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. |
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When you receive an approved Form 1 for a SBR, it is simply permission to make and possess an AR with a barrel length of less than 16". It does not preclude you from putting an upper >=16" on that same lower, nor does it stop you from selling the lower as a non NFA item. If the item was built as a pistol while waiting for the Form 1, it can be reverted back to a pistol as you wish. The lower by itself (no upper attached) is nothing more than a AR receiver and is treated just like any other... Quoted:
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If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. Again, I believe that is incorrect. The way I understand it is a SBR does not start life as a pistol. A SBR is made/manufactured (via form 1) as a a NFA firearm. It is not or never was a pistol even if it was made from one. It began it's life as a NFA firearm. It can be to made into a title 1 firearm, but it can never be a pistol.. If you are filling out a form 1, you are manufacturing your own rifle and therefore it can not "start" as a pistol even though that is what it was before the form 1. |
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Quoted: Again, I believe that is incorrect. The way I understand it is a SBR does not start life as a pistol. A SBR is made/manufactured (via form 1) as a a NFA firearm. It is not or never was a pistol even if it was made from one. It began it's life as a NFA firearm. It can be to made into a title 1 firearm, but it can never be a pistol.. If you are filling out a form 1, you are manufacturing your own rifle and therefore it can not "start" as a pistol even though that is what it was before the form 1. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. Again, I believe that is incorrect. The way I understand it is a SBR does not start life as a pistol. A SBR is made/manufactured (via form 1) as a a NFA firearm. It is not or never was a pistol even if it was made from one. It began it's life as a NFA firearm. It can be to made into a title 1 firearm, but it can never be a pistol.. If you are filling out a form 1, you are manufacturing your own rifle and therefore it can not "start" as a pistol even though that is what it was before the form 1. |
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I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. I don't know about the pistol question, but the part highlighted in red above is incorrect. An SBR is a rifle (or firearm made from a rifle*) with a barrel < 16", or OAL < 26". A firearm not meeting that description is not an SBR, and if it doesn't fall into one of the other NFA categories, not an NFA item. It's perfectly legal for me to put a 16" upper on my AR SBR and sell it as a Title 1 firearm. It's probably a good idea for me to write to ATF and ask them to remove it from the NFA registry if I'm going to do that, just to reduce the chance of confusion down the road, but even that isn't required. It's similarly legal for me to put a >= 16" upper on that same AR SBR and take it another state without ATF approval--if it isn't in an SBR configuration, it isn't an SBR. * This is why I'm unsure about the pistol issue--since it's specifically been registered with ATF as a rifle, I don't know if they'd consider a pistol configuration to be made from a rifle. |
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A stripped lower starts life as an "other".
You can go: Pistol -> Rifle Pistol -> Rifle -> Pistol -> etc , etc You cannot go: Rifle -> Pistol Having the lower registered as an NFA item doesn't change these rules. If you built the two as AR pistols first with Sig braces, you can absolutely go back and forth as much as you want, as long you don't ever end up with an illegal SBR. If the lower is registered and engraved, you're good to go...if not, it can be a pistol with short upper, or a rifle with >16" upper. Quoted:
Again, I believe that is incorrect. The way I understand it is a SBR does not start life as a pistol. A SBR is made/manufactured (via form 1) as a a NFA firearm. It is not or never was a pistol even if it was made from one. It began it's life as a NFA firearm. It can be to made into a title 1 firearm, but it can never be a pistol.. The only thing incorrect is your understanding of the law in this case. And to reiterate the post above mine, you can absolutely put a 16" upper on a registered SBR lower and sell it as a non-NFA item. The ATF asks that you notify them so they can remove it from the registry, but it's not a requirement. |
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Quoted:
I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. Quoted:
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If a lower starts its "life" as a pistol, it can go back and forth, but if it begins as an SBR, then it can't legally become a pistol... I don't believe that is the case with an SBR. Once you submit the paperwork, you are essentially "creating" a firearm with that lower and it's registered with the BATFE as a rifle. Just like you couldn't put that lower back into regular configuration with a 16+ barrel and sell it. It's still an NFA item. You need to go read this: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html |
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