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Posted: 12/24/2011 2:11:24 PM EDT
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I've got a question about SBR's. I did a search but came up empty on this particular question.
I plan on building an SBR upper over the course of the upcoming year...my first time. Whether I buy a complete upper or build my own piece by piece...Is having a complete SBR upper in my possession, that is not mounted to a lower receiver in violation of the law? In other words (if the law allows), I want to complete my upper and then proceed with the formal legal process of obtaining a stamp allowing me to finally mount it to a complete lower. Thanks in advance for any feedback. I apologize if this question has been asked already. I am new to SBR's and I want to make sure I do this to the letter of the law. |
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Quoted:
The way it has been described to me is, if you have the capabilities to have a completed unregistered SBR, you are breaking the law. I might be way off course but this is what I have been advised. VERY over simplified , and really more time is spent arguing / fearing about this topic then its worth at all. As long as you start with a stripped lower you are safe until you put a stock on it. |
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The way it has been described to me is, if you have the capabilities to have a completed unregistered SBR, you are breaking the law. I might be way off course but this is what I have been advised. Than owning a hacksaw would make every rifle owner a felon. Simply...no one is looking, monitoring, checking or caring. The BATFE has a few bigger issues at the moment. The law itself is vague as hell and it's intent was to add on charges for machinegun manufacturing I.E. having all the parts was the same as having a functional weapon. After the Internet lawyers took ahold of it, now anything is intent to manufactuer. Buy or build your upper anyway you want as there is nothing wrong or illegal about doing it. When it comes time to do the lower, if you must, store the upper at a friends house while the paperwork is in process. |
| Your fine. Just dont assemble an illegal weapon or stage the parts in such a way that an illegal weapon can be produced right then and there(although nobody is checking unless they have other reasons, and a warrant, to be watching you and your purchases.) Buy what you need as you find the best deals on them, and submit your form 1. Simply by submitting your form 1 you are showing that your intent is to follow the law. |
Merry Christmas 
Go to Palmetto and order a $50 stripped lower and a Pistol Lower Parts Kit after you get the lower in hand. Function check and run your upper to find whatever issues may arise. Do this and after you're happy with its performance, accuracy, etc., submit the Form 1s, Certificate of Compliance, Trust/CLEO sig, fingerprints, and photos, and $200 check to Department of the Justice. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The way it has been described to me is, if you have the capabilities to have a completed unregistered SBR, you are breaking the law. I might be way off course but this is what I have been advised. Than owning a hacksaw would make every rifle owner a felon. Simply...no one is looking, monitoring, checking or caring the BATFE has a few bigger issues at the moment. The law itselfis a vague as hell and it's intent was to add on charges for machinegun manufacturing I.E. having all the parts was the same as having a functional weapon. After the Internet lawyers took ahold of it, now anything is intent to manufacturer. Buy or build your upper anyway you want as there is nothing wrong or illegal about doing it. When it comes time to do the lower, if you must, store the upper at a friends house while the paperwork is in process. Correct. As I understand it, constructive intent(or whatever), has to be fabricated on their behalf, and basically isnt real. And its only happened while they were busting somebody for something else. ie drugs, etc. Kinda like a tack on charge to see what gets a longer punishment. |
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I've got one more question...I have a brand new lower receiver I want to use for my SBR build. I purchased it about 2 years ago from Anvil Arms in Florida. Anvil Arms has gone out of business. Since AA has gone out of business, does this mean I can't use this lower for my SBR build? |
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I've got one more question...I have a brand new lower receiver I want to use for my SBR build. I purchased it about 2 years ago from Anvil Arms in Florida. Anvil Arms has gone out of business. Since AA has gone out of business, does this mean I can't use this lower for my SBR build? Your good, you can use it |
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Thanks to all of you for your feedback. Sounds like I just need to apply basic common sense here. Buy my parts, submit my paperwork, and wait for the approval. Merry Christmas Ya'll. You are correct, but it's well worth correcting all the misinformation in this thread. Constructive Possession is a legal structure by which they can charge you with actual possession. It's very real, it's backed up with tons of case law including from SCOTUS. US v Thompson Center Arms Co affirmed the concept and clarified it to mean that a legal pathway for the NFA part must not be present for CP to apply. Basically, if you can legally use the short barrel on a pistol or another NFA registered firearm in your possession, then there is no CP and no possession violation present. If you have no such path and you possess the upper and rifle lower, then there is a Constructive Possession trigger for possession of an unregistered SBR. If you possess the short upper and the lower before your F1 is approved, then you could be charged with actual possession. As correctly mentioned above, legal pathways can be established by using a lower receiver qualified as a "pistol" instead of a rifle lower. Getting caught is another matter, but do not rely on the absence of an ATF investigation to protect from exposure. Most of the case law present was initiated by discovery via other means, like a 911 medical emergency call or a disgruntled girlfriend or wife. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks to all of you for your feedback. Sounds like I just need to apply basic common sense here. Buy my parts, submit my paperwork, and wait for the approval. Merry Christmas Ya'll. You are correct, but it's well worth correcting all the misinformation in this thread. Constructive Possession is a legal structure by which they can charge you with actual possession. It's very real, it's backed up with tons of case law including from SCOTUS. US v Thompson Center Arms Co affirmed the concept and clarified it to mean that a legal pathway for the NFA part must not be present for CP to apply. Basically, if you can legally use the short barrel on a pistol or another NFA registered firearm in your possession, then there is no CP and no possession violation present. If you have no such path and you possess the upper and rifle lower, then there is a Constructive Possession trigger for possession of an unregistered SBR. If you possess the short upper and the lower before your F1 is approved, then you could be charged with actual possession. As correctly mentioned above, legal pathways can be established by using a lower receiver qualified as a "pistol" instead of a rifle lower. Getting caught is another matter, but do not rely on the absence of an ATF investigation to protect from exposure. Most of the case law present was initiated by discovery via other means, like a 911 medical emergency call or a disgruntled girlfriend or wife. or you have a fire and the fire dept finds your parts in the smoking rubble of what used to be your home and notifies the police. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks to all of you for your feedback. Sounds like I just need to apply basic common sense here. Buy my parts, submit my paperwork, and wait for the approval. Merry Christmas Ya'll. You are correct, but it's well worth correcting all the misinformation in this thread. Constructive Possession is a legal structure by which they can charge you with actual possession. It's very real, it's backed up with tons of case law including from SCOTUS. US v Thompson Center Arms Co affirmed the concept and clarified it to mean that a legal pathway for the NFA part must not be present for CP to apply. Basically, if you can legally use the short barrel on a pistol or another NFA registered firearm in your possession, then there is no CP and no possession violation present. If you have no such path and you possess the upper and rifle lower, then there is a Constructive Possession trigger for possession of an unregistered SBR. If you possess the short upper and the lower before your F1 is approved, then you could be charged with actual possession. As correctly mentioned above, legal pathways can be established by using a lower receiver qualified as a "pistol" instead of a rifle lower. Getting caught is another matter, but do not rely on the absence of an ATF investigation to protect from exposure. Most of the case law present was initiated by discovery via other means, like a 911 medical emergency call or a disgruntled girlfriend or wife. That is exactly what happened to a guy I know about 20 years ago. Going thru a nasty divorce and soon-to-be-ex-wife called ATF on him. They took his unregistered SBR (it was fully assembled) and charged him with possession. He did not go to jail, but it costs him a lot of time and almost $7K in lawyer fees by the time it was all over. |
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