Armory Sponsor
Posted: 9/2/2013 11:39:06 PM EDT
|
The tooling alone is worth what you paid.
My only thought is a fair amount of the tooling is too large for the Smithy, more for dedicated machines like a Bridgeport and such. You had better let me hang on to that stuff for you 
Congrats! You got a free machine with it. |
|
I think you did great. Damn that's a lot of equipment for $2500...  OK great- feels good to hear that. That was my instinct too, so I just jumped on it. but I usually apply better due diligence when making such a large purchase. I knew enough to know that when you buy a machine, even if you get it really cheap, it's a boat anchor without the tooling, and the more boxes and drawers this guy opened for me the more I realized this was destiny!! I think the best part of the deal is having met the seller himself. Medical issues keep him from being able to really operate this machine safely anymore, but he is a fellow mad scientist with several patents and a sharp mind for innovation: Vietnam combat aircraft maintenance , career architect, steam engine innovator, bronze casting artist- patented a helicopter transportable 1-man fire engine (you can kinda see it in some of the pics). These are the type of guys I grew up having around, (they type of guys who are probably reading this thread) and it's nice to have a guy like that around me now that I live so far away from my family. I know the Smithy combo probably gets a lot of smirks from the pros here, but I'm just happy to be in the game. I look forward to hearing from you all as I start moving forward with specific projects. |
|
Even without a machine you got a heck of deal for $2500 (all the extra tools are worth that and more).
You’ll soon learn any limitation the machine might have, how to work around some of them, and whether or not you even need/want a larger, separate lathe & mill. I learned and did a lot of work with a 10x24” Atlas lathe, the knowledge transferred to a larger lathe when the time came. You did OK |
|
That's a pretty nice lathe, with a <meh> mill/drill attachment, and a superb deal with all that tooling.
Those small machines tend to have very small through-bores on the spindle. You'll be able to do just about anything you could want with that much room between centers, except for maybe trying to add on a 5C collet chuck, due to the smaller spindle bore. 39 inches is plenty of room to do almost any barrel work you can think of, though the relatively light frame will mean you need to learn to take light cuts. As a mill, it'll let you start cutting and learning, but is too small for much in the way of serious work. The xy-table being mounted on the cross slide really, really restricts your x travel, and limits your y travel to the traverse of the cross slide. The z axis has a big hard limit, which may well leave you searching for ways to get the work under the mill head and still hold it tight and true that turn out to be difficult, if not insolvable. I too started out on a 3-in-1 smaller than that one, and it did pretty good as long as I kept the jobs small, and the cuts light. Even after I upgraded, I kept the 3-in-1 around for many years as an auxiliary machine to do light threading and such, though I eventually sold it to clear out some space in my shop. |
|
Quoted: Those small machines tend to have very small through-bores on the spindle. You'll be able to do just about anything you could want with that much room between centers, except for maybe trying to add on a 5C collet chuck, due to the smaller spindle bore. 39 inches is plenty of room to do almost any barrel work you can think of, though the relatively light frame will mean you need to learn to take light cuts.. I thought for sure I saw a collet chuck and definitely saw a bunch of collets, in that pile of tools, would it be a 3c collet chuck (had to look it up)? I take it just smaller, not as useful? The spindle bore is 1.5" what's that let me pass through, about 1"? |
|
I have a Smithy Granite 1340 that I just recently moved from San Antonio, TX to Woodbridge, VA. I used an engine hoist with 2 separate chains and 4 pin shackles to attach to the handles on the Smithy for moving it, along with an engine leveler chain. Once it was in the air, I used 2 furniture dollies to set the Smithy down on, then attached ratchet straps to keep it tight to the Smithy. It was easy to roll around then.
Zach |
|
Quoted:
The tooling alone is worth what you paid. My only thought is a fair amount of the tooling is too large for the Smithy, more for dedicated machines like a Bridgeport and such. You had better let me hang on to that stuff for you
Congrats! You got a free machine with it. This ^^^ The tooling is worth what you paid so you didn't come out too bad on the deal. But, take this from somebody who has run a smithy for several months & currently owns real, American made, solid machines. A smithy is NOT cut out for gunsmith work. The rotating/height adjusting mill-head is the most vulnerable part. It is extremely susceptible to chatter simply for the fact that it isn't rigid enough. I went from being an occasional machine user to using a smithy in the middle-east for 6 months, to coming home and buying a real knee-mill and lathe, there is NO comparison between the 2. I though the chatter was bad but manageable when I was running the smithy but when I got home and found out what the chatter, err, lack of chatter, is like on a solid piece of equipment I decided the only way I will EVER have one of those in my shop is if I am paid to take it or I got it at such a good deal I think I can make a profit by flipping it to the next sucker down the line. I'm not saying this to poo on your purchase, it was a good purchase, but I would highly suggest parting it out and moving some of it (the machine mostly) along to more of a hobby type person that doesn't know any better. If you keep the tooling you can use and sell the rest piece-meal you should get all your money back and then some. Take that money and put it towards a real machine. I bought my 1978 Index knee mill for $2000 with tooling, a VFD, & 3-axis DRO on it. I bought my 1972 SouthBend lathe for $350 with some tooling and added about $900 in tooling to it. |
|
I'm not saying this to poo on your purchase, it was a good purchase, but I'm not saying this to poo on your purchase, it was a good purchase, but I would highly suggest parting it out and moving some of it (the machine mostly) along to more of a hobby type person that doesn't know any better. One step ahead of you! That's me- I'm the hobby-type person who doesn't know any better, I've moved it on to me. take this from somebody who has run a smithy for several months & currently owns real, American made, solid machines. A smithy is NOT cut out for gunsmith work. If you keep the tooling you can use and sell the rest piece-meal you should get all your money back and then some. Take that money and put it towards a real machine. I bought my 1978 Index knee mill for $2000 with tooling, a VFD, & 3-axis DRO on it. I bought my 1972 SouthBend lathe for $350 with some tooling and added about $900 in tooling to it. YES--THIS----, I'M FOLLOWING YOUR LEAD EXACTLY! I addressed this in the first paragraph of my first post. Because every single thread I've ever read about a small lathe/mill combo like this one- has a list of testimonials from guys that all go about the same- "I hate to crap on your machine, but"......."I started out with one of these..."....."figured out they suck because....it does this... and can't do this......"...."so I sold it and moved onto real machine, and could never go back" right now I can only afford/ lift / move / house/ fit/ power / tool/ operate this machine and no other. I look forward to the day I can join the Usta Own a Smithy Combo Club. 
|
|
Quoted:
I thought for sure I saw a collet chuck and definitely saw a bunch of collets, in that pile of tools, would it be a 3c collet chuck (had to look it up)? I take it just smaller, not as useful? The spindle bore is 1.5" what's that let me pass through, about 1"? I didn't see a collet chuck for that lathe in your pics, but maybe I missed it. Your collet set might be for the dividing head, not for the lathe - my divider is equipped with a 5C collet chuck, for instance. That's a much bigger spindle bore than I was expecting on a 3-in-1. My old 3-in-1 was bout .8" spindle bore, while my full sized lathe is close to 2" (have to go remeasure to be exact). The measurement which matters is the ID of the spindle bore - so if you were giving the outside spindle measurement as 1.5", the bore is probably about 1.2 or so. Which is still big enough to do a lot of useful work. If the actual bore is 1.5" that's amazing. |
|
Quoted:
I'm not saying this to poo on your purchase, it was a good purchase, but I would highly suggest parting it out and moving some of it (the machine mostly) along to more of a hobby type person that doesn't know any better. One step ahead of you! That's me- I'm the hobby-type person who doesn't know any better, I've moved it on to me. take this from somebody who has run a smithy for several months & currently owns real, American made, solid machines. A smithy is NOT cut out for gunsmith work. If you keep the tooling you can use and sell the rest piece-meal you should get all your money back and then some. Take that money and put it towards a real machine. I bought my 1978 Index knee mill for $2000 with tooling, a VFD, & 3-axis DRO on it. I bought my 1972 SouthBend lathe for $350 with some tooling and added about $900 in tooling to it. YES--THIS----, I'M FOLLOWING YOUR LEAD EXACTLY! I addressed this in the first paragraph of my first post. Because every single thread I've ever read about a small lathe/mill combo like this one- has a list of testimonials from guys that all go about the same- "I hate to crap on your machine, but"......."I started out with one of these..."....."figured out they suck because....it does this... and can't do this......"...."so I sold it and moved onto real machine, and could never go back" right now I can only afford/ lift / move / house/ fit/ power / tool/ operate this machine and no other. I look forward to the day I can join the Usta Own a Smithy Combo Club.
I don't think you are following my lead... I never have and never will own a combo machine... There, got that out of the way... My post was meant in the most respectful way. Your OP did not clarify that you don't have the room to house dedicated machines, only that this was your starting point. My point isn't that the machines are junk, so much as the fact that the great deal you got on that machine can be taken advantage of to buy better quality machines with little financial impact to you... For the same amount of money as you could sell that machine and some of that tooling you can turn around and get a real lathe and mill. So financial impact is a moot point. The other point is space. I didn't think I could fit a full-size mill and lathe either. But I did. I was quite shocked at how well my lathe and mill tucked into the corner of my garage. My wife can still park her car inside even... On to my final note. You mentioned you want this as a learning/starting point. You will certainly learn a lot with this machine. But it will teach you bad habits and maybe even crush your confidence after you ruin hundreds of dollars worth of tooling due to chatter, backlash, and other problems. I'm only telling you this because I've been there. We kept a VERY large supply of spare parts on hand for the Smithy because they routinely break parts, most notably the QCTP nut/bolt thing is a ridiculous design and has a tendency to break, the key that drives the auto-feed crosslide shears easily and it's a PITA to tear the cross-slide apart to change out, there are plastic bearings, bearing retainers, and bevel gears (the main drive gears for the mill-head) in the mill-head that wear out quickly even with light use. The mill-head doesn't reliably lock in position so there is a change, that while milling it will "catch" and the head will walk the tool right across your part breaking the took and VERY DEEPLY gouging your workpiece. I have personally witnessed every single one of these problems on a Smithy. Our group has nearly 20 of them most in the middle-east serving SOF soldiers. The only reason was a true space constraint of 8 X 4 max footprint because it's in a shipping container. If your space constraint truly is that small, I understand, but if there is any possible way you can make a bit more room, try your best. I learned to machine on Bridgeports and higher-quality import lathes. Those machines are fine, and teach you the right techniques. Without the knowledge of those proper techniques, it's very difficult to operate a junky import. Sometimes you won't know what you are doing wrong because it's hard to diagnose if you even are doing something wrong when the nature of the machine is to eat tooling, chatter to the point that it shakes the ground, and you will chase your tail trying to correct things. However, approaching that with the knowledge and background gained from running true machines you will have a better understanding and can hopefully save yourself some dough. I ate several thousand dollars in tooling (broken cutters mostly) in the 6 months I ran the Smithy due to the inherent nature of it; had that been out of my own pocket I wouldn't have been running a machine like that. I now run used US made for the same cost as some of the import stuff and I save a lot on tooling. It's hard to explain to a beginner, but take the word from all the experienced users, there is a very large noticeable difference... Once again, I say this not to poo on your purchase, only trying to give you advice. If I were in your situation I would part that sucker out, do everything possible to make space in my garage and bring in some real stuff. Until then I DEFINITELY wouldn't be touching somebody else's guns. Poor surface finish and lots of "oh shits" when using a Smithy... just my opinion though, take it for what you paid for it. ETA, to give a little credit the lathe function of the Smithy is acceptable in most respects. It will do the job. The mill function is the part that is very lacking and not worth more than a drill-press. ETA2, I measured the footprint of my full-size mill and smaller lathe. Mill is 4' deep and 5'6" wide, lathe is 2' deep X 4' wide... just food for thought... |
|
10-4, I get you, and didn't mean for my previous post to come across as defensive as it may have sounded- don't read this one as anything other than thankful for you taking the time to give your input and share your wisdom.
My dad was a gunsmith while I was growing up, he started small and ended up with Bridgeport and South Bend machines- So I do already have some exposure to many of the issues you bring up. He helped me make a threaded screw when I was 10 with a tiny little watchmaking lathe, and that experience is what brings me to being in this conversation with you today. I intend to do work within the sideboards of my own capability, and within the sideboards of the machines capability. I don't anticipate working on other peoples guns anytime soon, if ever. - I've got some simple projects outside of the gun world that I need to do first, and plan to start milling some 80% receivers- I just watched a guy on youtube do one of these with a harbor freight drill press, and I'm pretty confident I can pull it off with the Smithy. If my ambitions run up against my capacity, I'll get the tools I need to go to the next level. I'm not saying your argument about bigger, American standard tools was wrong- My point was that there is a place in this world for a machine like this, and right now I'm in that place. ARFCOM is full of folks telling other folks to not waste their time and money on that (Deltron, Tasco, Central Machinery, Kia) and to save up their money for a (Noveske, Trijicon, Bridgeport, Cadillac). It's generally good advice, but the world would grind to a hault without the former group. |
|
I completely understand where you are coming from. I'm active duty military and moving every 3 to 4 years with a dedicated lathe and/or mill would be very cost prohibitive to me. Especially since I typically rent, that's why I went for the Smithy, the size/weight concerns for me. It does what I need it to, maybe not as fast as a dedicated unit, but it works.
Zach |
|
Quoted:
I'm not saying your argument about bigger, American standard tools was wrong- My point was that there is a place in this world for a machine like this, and right now I'm in that place. ARFCOM is full of folks telling other folks to not waste their time and money on that (Deltron, Tasco, Central Machinery, Kia) and to save up their money for a (Noveske, Trijicon, Bridgeport, Cadillac). It's generally good advice, but the world would grind to a hault without the former group. Roger that... you seem to be pretty educated. I just wanted to give my insight into the machines since I've been there, and ran both of them... |
Armory Sponsor