I want!  May have to sell my PC9, or not!  Got lots of Glock mags!

No Sales.

I just don't see any way that this can compete with what else is out there. With the exception of the takedown feature (which is actually a huge minus) and the Glock mags (which is a HUGE plus) this exact weapon already tried-and-failed in a market populated by the hit-or-miss 80's subguns.

MSRP is listed at $649, but unless they can get it down around 10/22 prices (I'm seriously talking like, $279) who is supposed to buy it???

Even if it's on the street at $550 this time next year, how crappy would you feel if the guy next to you bought a ~$200 complete NFA Glock lower (PSA/NFA), topped it with a quality barreled upper with a good bolt (PA Ghost/ Faxon) for ~$350, and then started laughing when you're malf'ing all over the place and then you get the recall notice?

I won't even mention the possibility of spending (gasp!) more money on something like a Scorpion.

I just don't think anyone will buy one until they can fix a few things and cut the price in half.

Interested in the gun, but this reminds me how nauseous I get watching the typical gun reviewers on youtube.

lol I was thinking of the same thing.

PC9 was my first gun during the ban days.

Seeing as so many states have a ban, this makes lots of sense.

I had a bunch of off brand 30 round preban mags, the thing never failed to go bang.

I recall the FCG integral to the stock so the aftermarket was zero, probably why it died post ban.

Having said that, PC9 disassembly and reassembly was a bitch and I would not buy again if the process was the same.

It looks as if the FCG is one piece and thus seperate.

Integral 1913 on top is very smart, the front forearm section looks magpul replacement ready.  heck it all does.

cool beans ruger, keep printing money.

The subset of the gun buying market that will buy a no name 600$ 9mm AR is tiny....  like fill an auditorium tiny.

The subset of the gun buying market that will buy a sub 600$ MSRP 9mm rifle by RUGER - even in one config, forgetting special ban state ones - is huge.

I just realized that with replaceable magwells you can probably get a fixed one for CA.  while in NY you can get a std one and use lo caps with a non threaded muzzle.

jeez.

unreal.

This will be my february paycheck gun.  even though I'm in a free state, I'm in the subset mentioned above (of course) that won't buy a Garage-15 in 9mm.

It's obvious that we have a fundamental disagreement.

Ruger has a well earned reputation for turning out economy-grade guns that turn out to be trash, and then recalling them.

I personally wouldn't buy anything from Ruger that wasn't a .22 LR- a lot of folks just avoid Ruger, period.

This exact weapon, save for the two differences noted above, has already tried-and-failed in the market... and that was during a time when the alternatives were also weak.

MSRP is not "sub-$600" either.

I see two likely ways in which this will play out:

1) This thing flops and goes away, like the PC-9 before it.

2) This thing achieves limited success, like the Mini-14, but only in states where nobody likes guns... like the Mini-14. Ruger keeps it in the catalog, but everyone knows there are higher quality, cheaper options out there. Eventually Ruger shocks the world by releasing a 9mm AR, which is again does not compete well against other economy grade offerings... like the Ruger AR-15.

History repeats itself...

Competes with the scorpion or mp5's. It doesnt have to, its going to be awesome all in its own, sorry if you have some kind of grudge against ruger, But this is going to be legal in places where other 9mm PCC's are not legal, as well as going to most likely kick off a aftermarket frenzy for it. While coming in at a much lower price than those other ones you named.

You may have a point about making a few sales where guns are frowned upon, but it would need to debut at $100 off MSRP (which is indeed possible) to only match it's nearest competitor.

Personally I'd consider any sub-$100 delta to be negligible... and with Scorpions moving at a little over $700 these days (and with a couple mags at that) I predict no significant sales.

It's possible that there could be aftermarket solutions to address the deficiencies already noted...  but who wants a seat on that train?

You’re either

Delusional
A huge Ruger hater unwilling to reason
Totally ignorant to the civilian gun market

Limited success mini 14

I am happy to bet $100 that you are wrong. Or a team membership of any level. We would just need to clarify units sold or whatever marker you’d agree on.

What I really don’t understand is your insistence on it’s failure even with everyone in here talking about their interest in them.

Knowing its dealer cost, it should sell 500 or below. Ruger MSRP's are notoriously high.

There are already 3 threads on ARFCOM on this rifle based on a single redacted picture, the day before Ruger officially announced it.  Street pricing is popping up as just over $500, w/ one store @ $475.  Are you going to put chili powder or salt on your hat?

I need this, and the eventual integral suppressed version. It looks like its gonna be a heck of a lot of fun, maybe even more fun than my MP5. I just love the traditional stock on it.

HiTower Armory might drop their HiPoint bullpup project for a Ruger one.  I hope not.

Yeah... and there are 300 threads about those goofy neckbeard braces.

$475 is getting warmer, but it still isn't $279. Also... there are two big questions still to be answered:

1) Who is supposed to buy this thing?

2) WHY?

You guys have been speculating that people in NY and CA will buy them... who? People in NY and CA hate guns. They banned them. Now they can rest easy that their streets won't get "flooded" or something...

I might consider buying one for a goof, if they made a "Charger" style with the Copper Custom adapter thing included from the factory for around $300... but then I think about the crossbolt safety... and I picture myself as that Appalachian man in the video above, and how I would feel when I had the same malfunction... my face would be so red my beard braids would probably fall off...

I think every single one of your points is incorrect.

That was a joke post right?

He's putting us on.

Has to be.

ETA. I see he is serious.  Whoops.

I think it's just a case of arfkom itis.  We are not the gun world not even a large percentage of it.  Most handgun owners will consider this rifle for purchase. Full stop.   Repeat that sentence again.   Some of that most will buy it.  This will be a raging success.

Pistol caliber carbines are fun.

This one appears to address some of the flaws of the Marlin Camp Carbine (shit trigger, mediocre internal parts, etc.) and Ruger's first PCC version (shit trigger, boat anchor weight, limited magazine capability).

It does it at a good price point- 500 bucks.

I think it will sell.

And I think visavis our expectations, we are just talking about as a regular catalog the retail rifle.

We haven't even talked about the ban state sales capability, remember California is the largest gun Market in the world.  This can be made California legal from the factory.

I'm not sure what that other poster is thinking.  The posts don't add up.

I will add to your pc9 flaws of a non integral scope mount, terrible take down, the ghost ring sights cost tremendously extra, no muzzle attachments (ban era).

I will take issue with your capacity statement as there were reliable pre-ban mags for the P85 everywhere.  All the 30 rounders I had worked.   Promag. USA. All of them.

I meant the ability to take different brands (Glock, S&W, Beretta,etc.) of magazines, not capacity.  Bad wording on my part.

Wait... are you saying this might be good for gang-banging in Compton???

Even if it only malfs as often as it did in the only non-manufacturer sponsored video of it shooting, that's still a higher reliability rate than the TEC-9. You could be on to something...

But, then again, if you're going to be doing drive-bys in Crip-town, who cares about state gun laws anyway? That's like worrying about the speed limit...

Original PC9 vs new PC Carbine:
1. Limited to P-Series mags vs modular Sec-9, SR9, and GLOCK mag compatibility
2. Steel receiver vs billet 7075 receiver
3. Receiver integral ruger ring bases vs integral picatinny rail
4. Fixed barrel vs take down barrel
5. Plain muzzle vs factory threaded muzzle
6. Unique FCG vs 10/22 compatible FCG
7. Steel bolt vs steel bolt with tungsten weight

No.1 alone would have been a game changer for the PC9.

Combined these changes make the PC Carbine a completely different gun with a superficial resemblance to the PC9.

What is this nonsense?
I thought we were discussing the gun market?
I don't understand your posts.

Also interesting to note that the pistol caliber carbine market died back in the early 2000s.  Law enforcement didn't want them, the gun buying public didn't want them.  Colt has made ARs in 9mm for years, but never been very popular.

For some reason we're seeing a resurgence in PCC.  Maybe it's taken the place of 22LR for plinking since 22LR was so hard to find for the last 4 years.

Ruger makes over 1 million guns a year and someone in America is buying them, even if it's not Kalashnev.  They'll sell plenty of this one too.

Please keep in mind that this is the tech forum, and not GD, since you're not contributing you seem to have forgotten that.

People didn't want them back then for a number of reasons, with the main one being that they were hot garbage.  Ruger's old PC9 was a heavy pig that only took P series mags.  People have been asking for a Glock 9mm carbine for years.  Well, here it is, except it's from Ruger but you can still use your Glock mags.  My LGS has these listed below $500.  I won't be taking the initial plunge, I'll wait for reviews to come out, but I could see myself buying one.

As for the people asking why - because someone is going to make an integrally suppressed 16" barrel for this thing just like with the 10/22, and that will be a lot of fun to shoot.  Not every gun purchase needs to check the box on some list of needs, sometimes we just want things to want them (heresy, I know).

The opposite- I'm the only one logging technical deficiencies of Ruger's offering, and suggesting workarounds and potential improvements.

Everyone else is trying to counter that by saying, "SO HOT! ME WANT!"

If you're a mod, you know where to go to work in this thread.

If you're not...

And with this post this individual has confirmed his level of troll is somewhere between "90s nostalgia toy made into a musical kids' movie " and "lives under a bridge and eats billiegoats".

This is a neat little rifle that will sell well.  I will end up getting one for around 500, putting an inexpensive Vortex on it and having a great time with the Glock adapter.

Defiantly not. Their molds are pretty much done, and they have mucho $$ invested.

We're a few days away from 2018...Iron sights are good for classic/nostalgia guns and emergencies.  On a gun like this they can be an afterthought.  The three lug mount is nowhere near being any kind of standard, neither are the variety of mags you mentioned besides Glock.  Looks like you're just listing what you want.

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/1712281316103

Just Pre-ordered one for 450.00!

im probably in at 450  

An integral silencer option would be neat, I wonder if the 10.22 registered machine gun trigger packs would work...

Fent

Obviously a pre-order fent

People are pre ordering these like mad, wish I had the extra cash...These things will sell like hotcakes

Irons are indeed necessary- not sure why they appear to be using shotgun sights on this weapon.

3-lug is the world standard for not launching your silencer downrange... although I guess you could also get one of those nomex covers and hold-on-tight. That was not a good idea in the 1980s or now. Neither is strap wrench on --> hope --> never coming off. If Ruger wants, I can send them the prints to do a 3-lug correctly rather than eyeball it like a lot of the adapters out there.

Colt SMG mags are plentiful, and a world standard. So are Uzi mags... and of course MP5 mags. You're just flat wrong about that one. I would imagine if they try to ship them with SR-71 American Blackbird or whatever mags in the box that those would be going for literal pennies on GB very soon.

I'll leave you guys with one more technical observation and recommendation before I exit this thread:

It would seem like a simple matter to replace the goofy crossbolt safety with an M1 style lever... and I hope that someone over there takes a look at an M1 Carbine and the incremental improvements that were made to the sights and safety soon.

You may now re-commence the drool-fest...

All that stuff you said about world standard and M1 carbines and iron sights...This gun is for the American market circa 2018, with all of its state by state political differences and user preferences re: suppressor mounting, mags, and optics.  Ruger knows its customers.  I shouldn't have sold my RGR shares.

I agree they alienated an entire market share because of the MSRP.

I have to agree. On a positive note, they have supported the NRA in the last 5 years.  Bill Ruger helped orchestrate the 1994 AWB, but he's dead.  But Ruger's guns (in my opinion) appear to be oriented toward lower income, newbies.

I have a 10/22 and 20 mags that are useless since I purchased a S&W M&P 15-22 AR clone for $300.  S&W 25rd mags were $11.99, on sale.  I bought 20 and I'm all set with .22.

Anybody want to buy a tricked out 10/22 with 20 Ruger BX-25 mags, please let me know

I want one in 9mm and .45 ACP.............. Thanks Ruger !!!

This will be interesting to see how it does.  Comparing this to an AR in 9mm is a mistake.  The AR in about any caliber is a shooting machine meant to be fired until too hot to hang onto.  This is more in the market of the Kel Tec carbines.  Handy to have close by, and cheaper.  My little Sub 2Kgen2 had been discretely contained in a tool bag until needed, and no one is the wiser.  And it has accounted for multiple pigs bleeding out without any fuss.  Look at the after market support for a third rate gun company and it's products.....what some are saying about this carbine without any being brought to market yet reminds me of what some people used to say about Kel Tec products.  Come to think of it, when Gaston's Infernal Device was first brought to market people poo pooed it to no end.  And that was in the pre internet days for you youngsters who cut your teeth on polymer guns and do not remember a time without instant communication.  I still remember hearing rumors about glocks melting........

When old man Ruger passed away some smarter, well, more common sense instead of smarter, people took over.  Re designed the mini with a good barrel, better sights, made standard capacity magazines available to mere civilians again, and even brought out a Scout Rifle.  The "experts" whether college "educated" or self appointed said it would never go anywhere, and yet it is setting sales records for ruger.  Even McMillan said a scout rifle was a pistol shooters idea of what a rifle should be, trying to disparage the idea.  But look how sales took off since it was so much cheaper than the Steyr Scout.  Just like the Kel Tec carbines are selling like hot cakes.  I this is a good idea or not will ultimately be decided by the free market and not by the "experts" no matter what they think of themselves.  Those in the great unwashed will pony up the money and buy these.  And with Ruger having the manufacturing capabilities that they do i'm sure there will be enough made to keep the prices from going crazy like some other smaller manufactures have seen.

Now if they would make it in 45ACP, with a 1911 magazine option, I think that will sell much better than you would realize.  Especially if it is easier to strip than the god awful workings of the Marlin I had!

Another plus factor, this rifle looks “non threatening”.

It's Magpul friendly.

After what they did to the takedown 22, I'm sure Ruger took note.

And someone in this thread brought up the Colt 9mm mags.  The absolute best way to spray 32 rounds.  Out of the feed lips.  When you sneeze at them.  If you can get 32 in.  Seriously dude step back from the keyboard.

(This from a colt 9mm addict hombre).

Im more intrigued by the whole ability to change from a Ruger pistol magazine to Glock magazine. Thats big. Thats something that opens a shit-ton of possibilities.

Though, because it takes Glock mags, Im already sold on it, but im gonna wait until reviews come out, see what all Ruger and 3rd party has to offer, see if Glock or anyone offers a alternative... list can go on.

I like it, its something I would like, but at the same time, in looking at thee price and im comparing other options. I already have an AR-15, and a company called Stern (?) developed a Glock mag block for AR-15s. A 16" PSA 9mm upper with BCG and handle, and this block, and im G2G. So im not sure if I will buy something like this when that is an option, but then again, maybe I want it for the same reason I want more than 1 9mm pistol... because I want more than 1 choice of pistol in 9mm. Maybe I want more than 1 choice for 9mm pistol carbine/rifle.

I don't think they did themselves any favors in the weight department. 6.8lbs?!?
My wife's biggest complaint moving from the 4lbs 2oz Sub2k to a 6lbs AR is that it's too heavy. This is definitely not something she'd be interested in.

That said, when I can get plinking 9mm for $7.75/50rds at Walmart, and when they have .22lr it's $4+/50rds, I know which one most folks are going to pick.

And I've wanted a handy 9mm fuck around carbine for years. Tried the Keltec Sub2000 (wife's now), and have a 9mm AR pistol, but I might well buy one of these.

I Would prefer wood stock and non-takedown, but I'm still buying.  
Hopefully they make adaptor blocks for other common inexpensive magazines - sig, beretta, etc.

Anybody have details on the two piece bolt and "delayed blowback"?  If true it should be very quiet when suppressed.