I have a zenith mp5 full-size SBR that I love, and want to fill the PDW roll in my collection,  so i bought the zenith Z5P and haven't really been that impressed. So much so that I am now debating selling the Z5p and replacing it with a B&T APC9 or maybe a HK sp5k (although much higher cost to get it in the correct configuration).

My problems with the Z5p -

Much harder to charge than the full-size mp5.
I thought this was just my gun or needed brake in time, but after 700 rounds and comparing it to other guns in the store, it has not gotten better. The sp5k I have played with dose not have this problem.

I keep getting stove pipe malfunctions or other malfunctions with 147gr ammo, even after i have shot 700 Nato pressure 9mm rounds thought it and it has gone back to the factory. It doesn't seem to matter if I am running a can or not...

If I go with the APC9 cost wise it is kind of a wash, one I get it SBRed.

Also the APC9 looks to be only about an inch longer than the Z5p in the folded configuration.

For the people who have bothe an mp5k SBR and a APC9 which do you prefer?

Thanks,

I've had my apc9 for a few days and after 600 rounds I can see myself owning a few B&Ts

have you called zenith? i have both the Z5P and the SP5K and they're pretty similar in how it is to charge the bolt.There is also a thread on HK pro where they note some zenith need just a touch of polishing where the carrier contacts the hammer.  But there have also been issues with cocking tube support misalighnment or bent extractors.

Field strip, and see if it's still smooth, if so add back end cap and see if still smooth then add trigger pack.  Or call zenith and have them take a peak.  The Z5P will be tighter than the 5rs but I can't tell a difference between my zenith and my HK

My z5p is starting to get easier to charge after 7-800 rds of shooting.

I am tempted by a B&T APC9 but man, it is pricey, has limited mag options, and limited parts availability.

It is definitely the trigger pack, although when I swapped the Z5p and z5rs trigger packs it dose not make a difference, and I have no problems with the rs Trigger pack in that gun.

It's not that I can't change the gun, I can, it's more that it is hard for my wife to do it, and I was more wondering from people that have used both, if the APC9 is a better option?

Thanks

I'd see about sorting out the Z5P first before getting into the APC-9.

Straight blowback is a step backward, IMO... plus it weighs 16% less.

The B&T GHM9 would be a good option too. They are supposed to be around $1200-1300.

I'm hoping there are plans for a brace for the GHM9...............I am thinking of getting one

I'm sure there will be at some point. Someone needs to do a tail hook for it.

Don't waste your time waiting for someone to cook up some kind of goofy adapter to hang that cornball brace off an obscure gun.

Just buy it now and SBR it.

I'm leaning towards not getting braces from now on. If you have several pistols it gets expensive real fast.

I can't speak to the APC9...

But my MP5-K clone was ABSOLUTELY harder to charge than my MP5, and if you aren't being obtuse you realize it has to be. You're trying to move the bolt in almost the same amount of linear movement with in a shorter package, it's just a leverage thing but also the K spring is heavier iirc.

As to stove pipes - if you have a fullsize, try using it's locking piece. My fullsize suppressed fantastic, my K suppressed kind of poorly. The fullsize could use one locking piece for suppressed and not, the K liked a suppressed angle and an unsupressed angle, again, these are issues with the smaller package.

As to "straight blowback being a downgrade" lol, ok. Yes, in theory some aspects of a delayed system might be better, but you know what? Blowback 9mm guns work, and they work well, for 100 years. If the buffer system in the APC9 is 1/2 as good as people who just paid 2k for the gun say it is (hard to say on that!) it might be worth looking into.


I won't sell my MP5 fullsize (did sell my K clone) but the APC9 is looking REALLY attractive. I'm most interested in the recoil differences, because the Scorpion was aggressive compared to the MP5 fullsize, so much so that I sold that too. Will probably buy the APC9 myself, it's almost MP5-K sized, has an AR trigger (sort of), has the same weight as the K-PDW, and has bolt hold open which if you're trying to compete or really use hard is vital.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I have full size mp5's and K's. I love how smooth my full size MP5 shoots so much more than my K's. I have an APC9 as well and it's a dream to shoot. It has a little more recoil than a full size MP5 but not much. They are so well made. I ended up getting an APC223 pistol and will be picking up a GHM9 when they come out soon. If you don't want you spend around 2k on an APC9 you really need to look at getting a GHM9, they retail around $1200-1300 and should be available at the end of September. 

I have fullauto all German MP5K-N and MP5-N. I don't find much of a difference between the K-N and the N when it comes to cocking, they subjectively feel about the same.


I have fired the fullauto APC9 on multiple occasions and compared it side by side to my fullauto MP5K-N. My K-N has the 28 locking piece and about the same ROF as the fullsize.The APC9 is subjectively every bit as smooth as the MP5 series in my opinion. The APC has better ergonomics, is ambidextrous, has better optic/accessory mounting, has a last round bolt catch, and its operating system is much simpler. Blowback operation is a step backward only if it is in some way detrimental. In the case of the B&T APC (and GHM9) the hydraulic buffer makes for very very smooth function.

JoshNC, can you share your opinion as above, only suppressed?

Of course. Suppressed use is the same as I noted above. The APC9 doesn't subjectively sound louder, nor does it have any more gas/carbon blowback than my K-N.


The APC9 is IMO the MP5 killer. I don't say that flippantly. I love my MP5s and will never get rid of them. The APC is simply more ergonomic, has a bolt hold open, has better optic/accessory mounting options, is ambidextrous, and is easier for the end user to perform armorer level maintenance (if needed).

Fine. I'll buy one. You happy? Dick.

;)