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Posted: 10/12/2020 7:39:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: ANNOUNCEMENT It is with a heavy heart that I must announce the end of my employment with AMSEC. The company management has changed, and the reorganization resulted in the elimination of my position as the Vice President of Engineering and Technology. After dedicating 32 years of my career to innovation and market leading product development, my mark has been left on an industry. I take great pride in my accomplishments, and I know my legacy will resonate for many years. I leave six industry specific Patents, and dozens of other design innovations that deserved Patent protection. I left my mark, good bad or otherwise... As you might expect, my inside influence and knowledge of the company's business comes to an end with this termination. So, given that I am no longer qualified to answer questions about current/future products or market plans. I am happy to continue to participate in debates and answer questions that pull from my experience and knowledge, so I will continue to post and comment where I can add value. As I said very early in my ARFCOM comments, I am not about promoting a product or company, and I hope to continue with that path here on the ARFCOM forums. I am seeking the next phase of my engineering and manufacturing career with optimism and hope, even thru these difficult times with a pandemic forcing business to it's knees. I am sad to hear that as it seems like an unplanned and undesired change for you. I hope you are able to kick ass in something else and I have no doubt that you will. Thank you for the enormous wealth of information throughout this thread and elsewhere and very glad to hear you will be staying around! |
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Posted: 10/12/2020 9:47:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: ANNOUNCEMENT TSG, I have enjoyed your insight into a well respected security company and their products. I hope you can contribute to our knowledge of how things work and why. |
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Posted: 10/14/2020 12:42:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mouthpiece]
[#3]
I figured it out.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2020 6:02:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Tony, I'm sorry to hear your present situation was not by your choice. I hope everything turns out for the better in the end.
Thank you for taking the time to post here. I have learned more in this one thread about safes than everywhere else combined, thanks to your invaluable contributions. Hopefully, you will be able to continue enriching our education. |
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DEU
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Posted: 11/5/2020 12:11:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Tony, I wish you all the best for your next job. I have no doubts you will have to search long.
I have a new question regarding your lock. How often did people contact Amsec, because they set accidentally the combo to the factory reset code? The lock allows this and with more than one million sold (I assume it because of the 7-digit serial), possibly multiple PINs per lock and possibly multiple changes per lock, there must have been this mishap. This factory reset code is a quite strange thing to me. As far as I understood all Amsec-made locks have one. I found out that S&G has the Management Reset Code, which can be set or not. I found no way to check if a lock has set one or not. So it is better to assume someone else has the MRC. I could not find any factory reset code feature for La Gard, which not necessarily means, that their locks don't have this feature. |
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Posted: 11/5/2020 3:15:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MartinHewitt:I have a new question regarding your lock. How often did people contact Amsec, because they set accidentally the combo to the factory reset code? The lock allows this and with more than one million sold (I assume it because of the 7-digit serial), possibly multiple PINs per lock and possibly multiple changes per lock, there must have been this mishap. First off, I think I need to make this clear for people asking questions about AMSEC business and products. I am happy to share information that I don't think is necessarily "official" policy or proprietary content. Honestly, I'm not sure where that line is in the sand. Given that, I will limit my comments more-so than I might have before. I won't speak to the statistics about people accidentally setting their code to match the factory code. I will say that if this were to happen, the fist time it was used the User code would be reset to 1-2-3-4-5-6. So, the User could then set another code without any major issues. This factory reset code is a quite strange thing to me. As far as I understood all Amsec-made locks have one. I found out that S&G has the Management Reset Code, which can be set or not. I found no way to check if a lock has set one or not. So it is better to assume someone else has the MRC. I could not find any factory reset code feature for La Gard, which not necessarily means, that their locks don't have this feature. I can't discuss policies or procedures regarding factory codes any more. The philosophy of retaining Factory Reset Codes is a choice for any company that sells locks or safes. The decision reflects on the company's commitment to support the customer. It's not free and it requires constant maintenance, security and meticulous record keeping. Having a factory remedy to resolving lost codes is a double-edged sword. The customer gets a lockout resolved without big service costs, and the company doesn't get a black eye when and unhappy consumer reports a lockout to the world as a service failure. On the downside, people hate back doors and resent the idea. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:38:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: ANNOUNCEMENT Bummer man, I hope the unexpected change turns out to be an immense upgrade for you! I was actually contacted by a recruiter in Sept about a senior exec position at AmSec (not engineering related), talked pretty extensively about it and as cool as I thought it would be, the dynamics just didn't feel right. If the current leadership thought it was a good move to unload the guy who undoubtedly played a serious role in building the company and masterminding product development, my spidey sense must still be reasonably well calibrated. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:40:06 PM EDT
[#8]
On the safe topic, anyone recommend a dealer in SoCal? Or even neighboring states? Looking to purchase another BF and haven't been thrilled with whats out there currently.
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Posted: 12/23/2020 3:43:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By confrontational: On the safe topic, anyone recommend a dealer in SoCal? Or even neighboring states? Looking to purchase another BF and haven't been thrilled with whats out there currently. Check on Dean Security, tell John that Tony sent you if you get the opportunity to speak with the man directly.... he'll hook you up. |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 5:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BoggsAZ]
[#10]
Sorry to learn of your unscheduled career change. I have enjoyed and learned from your posts.
With your knowledge and experience, I have no doubt you will find another position in the industry. I wanted your opinion on whether it is worth upgrading the ESL5 on my Amsec. I am not the original owner. I don't know the model number, but the serial number sticker reads AP129XXX. Other than changing the 9v battery around every 6-9 months, it has been problem free. I just want to avoid finding the lock DOA one day. If it were your safe, would you upgrade it to something like an ESL10XL? Something else? What about the pricey hybrid mechanical/electronic lock I've seen online? Is it worth paying five times as much to have the mechanical backup? I anticipate an ESL10 would include replacing both the keypad and the locking mechanism in the door? Doable by someone with average home fix-it skills? Thank you in advance for your insight! |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 6:03:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BoggsAZ: I wanted your opinion on whether it is worth upgrading the ESL5 on my Amsec. I am not the original owner. I don't know the model number, but the serial number sticker reads AP129XXX. Other than changing the 9v battery around every 6-9 months, it has been problem free. I just want to avoid finding the lock DOA one day. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BoggsAZ: I wanted your opinion on whether it is worth upgrading the ESL5 on my Amsec. I am not the original owner. I don't know the model number, but the serial number sticker reads AP129XXX. Other than changing the 9v battery around every 6-9 months, it has been problem free. I just want to avoid finding the lock DOA one day. Sorry, I don't have access to the service tracking or change history any more. What I do recall was that the issues with ESL5 service were resolved with the implementation of a new/different CPU, which I believe happened in early 2017. Locks made after that time were highly reliable. I can't recall cutoff serial numbers. If it were your safe, would you upgrade it to something like an ESL10XL? Something else? What about the pricey hybrid mechanical/electronic lock I've seen online? Is it worth paying five times as much to have the mechanical backup? This is all about individual risk sensitivity. The ESL10 lock has always been the most reliable e-lock on the market, and a good choice if you opt for an electronic solution. I was never a fan of the redundant lock products, as they added level of complexity that appeared to increase failure potential. Again, I don't have the stats handy to report specifics. I anticipate an ESL10 would include replacing both the keypad and the locking mechanism in the door? Doable by someone with average home fix-it skills? Yes, both parts need to change. It is within the range of a competent do-it-yourselfer, but there is always some risk that you may make a mistake. A competent safe technician will warranty their work, and if the worst happens, they will make it right if something bad happens after they do service. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2020 10:03:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Tony, I just procured a BFX7240 with ESL-10XL lock based upon the conversations in this thread and your help. I sincerely hope you continue contribution here. You made a huge difference in my experience. AMSEC has lost a hugely valuable resource. My thanks for your help and assistance here! Cheers,
Mike |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:38:04 PM EDT
[#13]
HOWDY! Like many others here I also am very appreciative for the information learned in this thread. so...... THANK YOU!
You have in a way sold me on the AMSEC product. I don't know what happened but I'm kinda wanting to get another one before corporate has an opportunity to cheapen them up =) My General Questions.... Do you see any issue getting a large high security safe (think CE6528) and adding a home made gun interior similar to a gun safe? I don't know if the safe I get will offer a hole in the bottom for power. How much of a hassle would it be to add one? |
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DE, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:00:10 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm late responding, but wanted to say thank you to SafeGuy for your contributions to this forum. The information you've shared here has been a ton of help to me, and I'm sure to many others also.
Hoping everything works out well for you. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:36:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Check on Dean Security, tell John that Tony sent you if you get the opportunity to speak with the man directly.... he'll hook you up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By confrontational: On the safe topic, anyone recommend a dealer in SoCal? Or even neighboring states? Looking to purchase another BF and haven't been thrilled with whats out there currently. Check on Dean Security, tell John that Tony sent you if you get the opportunity to speak with the man directly.... he'll hook you up. Looking at Dean Security, how is the fire protection for the AMSEC NF6036? Does it provide actually effective fire protection, or is it just best to save the money for the BF / BFX models? https://www.deansafe.com/collections/gun-safes/products/amsfgunsa |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 3:23:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Looking at Dean Security, how is the fire protection for the AMSEC NF6036? Does it provide actually effective fire protection, or is it just best to save the money for the BF / BFX models? https://www.deansafe.com/collections/gun-safes/products/amsfgunsa Not that I am providing any endorsements... but that 90 minute listing on the NF is -totally- legit. I put a ton of my time and a huge R&D investment in getting that safe to that performance level. I have no skin in this game anymore, but I stand by everything I said about fire ratings. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 1:58:07 AM EDT
[#17]
@TheSafeGuy Just wanted to say thanks for all the input into this thread, I've been reading it for a while now. I'm most likely going with the Amsec NF6030 or 36 Any input on the NL Doomsday Redundant Lock Option? If I'm paying 2-3 grand for a safe, I don't mind getting the redundant option - I've only had mechanical locks and to be honest, even after reading the thread, still don't want to go with an solely electronic lock. My understanding is that this has 2 mechanisms that are independent that either can unlock the safe - any experience with these? Worth the premium? Anyone else have experience with this lock? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2021 10:26:42 AM EDT
[#18]
I recently stumbled on this thread and spent the past two days reading through it. What a great resource! TSG -if you don’t mind sharing knowledge with a board newbie- what is the difference between a TL-30 AmVault and an ACF single door unit? I recall you saying that the ACF was based on the AmVault, but I’m not sure of the difference. I’m looking at an ‘08 ACF unit but am having trouble finding details.
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Posted: 1/30/2021 3:42:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Macumazahn: Any input on the NL Doomsday Redundant Lock Option? If I'm paying 2-3 grand for a safe, I don't mind getting the redundant option - I've only had mechanical locks and to be honest, even after reading the thread, still don't want to go with an solely electronic lock. My understanding is that this has 2 mechanisms that are independent that either can unlock the safe - any experience with these? Worth the premium? Anyone else have experience with this lock? While the "redundant" doomsday lock does offer a degree of safety with a mechanical fall-back, the electronic system shares the basic mechanics of the combo lock components. So, it's not genuine redundancy in the purest form, and a mechanical malfunction may not be remedied by the mechanical opening path. In addition, the added redundancy complexity also introduces a number of additional failure modes that may impact reliability. This is not to say there have been problems, only undesirable statistical probability shifts due to higher part counts and inter-dependencies. So, like any system that adds safety, it creates more things that can go wrong. I choose to strive for simplicity, and hence less potential for failure. The idea of an EMP blowing up your lock is a pretty remote concern.
Does the redundant lock provide a true backup system? ...Mostly yes. Is it worth it? ... that's a value proposition that I can't justify, since in my mind it's not an absolute redundancy. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 6:20:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By My2A4Ever:what is the difference between a TL-30 AmVault and an ACF single door unit? I recall you saying that the ACF was based on the AmVault, but I’m not sure of the difference. I’m looking at an ‘08 ACF unit but am having trouble finding details. It's the other-way-around. The AmVault is based on the ACF. The key difference is in the highly tooled formed-structure in the AMVault, limiting sizes to a short list. The ACF is a more simplified construction that lends itself to custom sizing. They are equivalent in ratings, but quite different in structure. I probably should not say much more than that. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 12:09:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Hi TheSafeGuy,
I have a Amsec Tl-30 from 2007. The paint on the interior is coming off in sheets. None of my other safes of the same model are doing this. Have you heard of the factory doing anything to fix this? Thanks, Aren |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 1:19:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryHave you heard of the factory doing anything to fix this? It's a 14 year old commercial safe. I suspect the paint issues (and I have seen them before) are related to the goofy environmental restrictions put in place out in California. Good paint sticks, but it is also known to the state of California to cause cancer when you eat it, so it's banned. For $25 and a trip to your local home improvement store, you can get a gallon of Rustoleum and repaint it yourself. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 1:40:37 PM EDT
[#23]
The surface wasn’t primed, or this wouldn’t have happened.
It’s a simple question not directed to you. And I don’t appreciate your zero value response. We purchased 4 large expensive commercial safes not including the dozens of little and residential Amsec safes we own...and only one has this issue. It happened within 10 years but finally got around to asking a simple question. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 2:14:50 PM EDT
[#24]
It’s a simple question not directed to you Ah got it. Guys like me, who have sold thousands of safes over decades, have little clue as to the issues that exist. Just ignore me and non productive answer I gave you. I'm sure Tony will be along shortly to tell you that you're SOL and you should paint it yourself. A much better answer than the one I gave you. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 2:34:23 PM EDT
[#25]
+1 on the Rust-Oleum recommendation for peeling paint for TL30. I had it on the lower right door jamb next to the sill. Surface prep scrape, sand, clean, tape off with plastic and prime. Paint can basically tells you how to surface prep. It will then be set for a coat of matching AMSEC paint if that is what you want. Result is as good-as-new, and only a couple of hours on the weekend to fix. I do have a little delamination (seam) on the front door edge, which I plan to tape off, surface prep, clean, and skim some JB Weld into, then prep for primer / paint. That pissed me off more than the paint, but it is a 21 year old safe meant to keep the bad guys out and scratches add character.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 2:44:43 PM EDT
[#26]
It will then be set for a coat of matching AMSEC paint Pro tip: Although not as exact as some of the other paints, the hardware store can tint white Rustoleum to make it whatever color (close to whatever color) you want. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2021 3:21:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj: Ah got it. Guys like me, who have sold thousands of safes over decades, have little clue as to the issues that exist. Just ignore me and non productive answer I gave you. I'm sure Tony will be along shortly to tell you that you're SOL and you should paint it yourself. A much better answer than the one I gave you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj: It’s a simple question not directed to you Ah got it. Guys like me, who have sold thousands of safes over decades, have little clue as to the issues that exist. Just ignore me and non productive answer I gave you. I'm sure Tony will be along shortly to tell you that you're SOL and you should paint it yourself. A much better answer than the one I gave you. Sorry that was kind of a sick response on my part. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2021 2:14:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Not that I am providing any endorsements... but that 90 minute listing on the NF is -totally- legit. I put a ton of my time and a huge R&D investment in getting that safe to that performance level. I have no skin in this game anymore, but I stand by everything I said about fire ratings. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Looking at Dean Security, how is the fire protection for the AMSEC NF6036? Does it provide actually effective fire protection, or is it just best to save the money for the BF / BFX models? https://www.deansafe.com/collections/gun-safes/products/amsfgunsa Not that I am providing any endorsements... but that 90 minute listing on the NF is -totally- legit. I put a ton of my time and a huge R&D investment in getting that safe to that performance level. I have no skin in this game anymore, but I stand by everything I said about fire ratings. Wonderful, thank you so much. Do you think its worth springing more for the BF/BFX vs the NF? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:21:53 AM EDT
[#29]
@TSG
I was reading some random information on UL 687 out of bordem. One thing I noticed was that UL 687 has a standard for TL-30 safe door gap. I was curious if my safe met that standard so I went to check and noticed the gap is a lot larger than the specification. On my safe it's around 1.85mm - 2mm. The safe is an AMSEC CFX TL-30X6 safe.  Would you have any insight on this? Is this much door gap acceptable for TL-30 rated safes? Btw, thank you for all your help and insight over the years! |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:53:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cfrea: @TSG I was reading some random information on UL 687 out of bordem. One thing I noticed was that UL 687 has a standard for TL-30 safe door gap. Would you have any insight on this? Is this much door gap acceptable for TL-30 rated safes? I just reviewed the UL687 Standard, and there is no mention of door gap allowances on any TL rated safes. One can assume that the door gaps are controlled by the testing protocols, and the UL engineering team's requirements. Large gaps would be noticed and addressed. Those limits would translate into commitments in the client UL drawing package that governs inspection and tolerance criteria. As a manufacturer, everyone tries to shape their documentation to allow maximum flexibility and minimal exposure to punitive Variation Notice (VN) action. VN's are the "tickets" issued for non-compliance. You don't want those, they are expensive to remedy, and can delay or stop production. As I recall, I always allowed a 1/8" door gap, with a tolerance that provided a +/- 1/16" error. So, gaps should be limited to 3/16" maximum before an inspector would be compelled to write a VN and shut down production. Consider this is from memory, as I no longer have access to the actual inspection files any more. In any case, the UL Standards do not govern door gap limitations. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/1/2021 7:40:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: I just reviewed the UL697 Standard, and there is no mention of door gap allowances on any TL rated safes. One can assume that the door gaps are controlled by the testing protocols, and the UL engineering team's requirements. Large gaps would be noticed and addressed. Those limits would translate into commitments in the client UL drawing package that governs inspection and tolerance criteria. As a manufacturer, everyone tries to shape their documentation to allow maximum flexibility and minimal exposure to punitive Variation Notice (VN) action. VN's are the "tickets" issued for non-compliance. You don't want those, they are expensive to remedy, and can delay or stop production. As I recall, I always allowed a 1/8" door gap, with a tolerance that provided a +/- 1/16" error. So, gaps should be limited to 3/16" maximum before an inspector would be compelled to write a VN and shut down production. Consider this is from memory, as I no longer have access to the actual inspection files any more. In any case, the UL Standards do not govern door gap limitations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By cfrea: @TSG I was reading some random information on UL 687 out of bordem. One thing I noticed was that UL 687 has a standard for TL-30 safe door gap. Would you have any insight on this? Is this much door gap acceptable for TL-30 rated safes? I just reviewed the UL697 Standard, and there is no mention of door gap allowances on any TL rated safes. One can assume that the door gaps are controlled by the testing protocols, and the UL engineering team's requirements. Large gaps would be noticed and addressed. Those limits would translate into commitments in the client UL drawing package that governs inspection and tolerance criteria. As a manufacturer, everyone tries to shape their documentation to allow maximum flexibility and minimal exposure to punitive Variation Notice (VN) action. VN's are the "tickets" issued for non-compliance. You don't want those, they are expensive to remedy, and can delay or stop production. As I recall, I always allowed a 1/8" door gap, with a tolerance that provided a +/- 1/16" error. So, gaps should be limited to 3/16" maximum before an inspector would be compelled to write a VN and shut down production. Consider this is from memory, as I no longer have access to the actual inspection files any more. In any case, the UL Standards do not govern door gap limitations. I appreciate the response! I also had another question that you may be able to still answer. On the CFX line of safes there is no Palusol fire seal, but on the RFX gun safes there is. I am assuming these are the exact same safes just with a gun interior in them no? If so, why was no Palusol seal used on the CFX models? If I add a seal to the CFX will the fire survivability enhance for the items inside? |
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Posted: 3/1/2021 8:37:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cfrea: I appreciate the response! I also had another question that you may be able to still answer. On the CFX line of safes there is no Palusol fire seal, but on the RFX gun safes there is. I am assuming these are the exact same safes just with a gun interior in them no? If so, why was no Palusol seal used on the CFX models? If I add a seal to the CFX will the fire survivability enhance for the items inside? Good question... get ready to laugh. The testing program for the TL safes (ACE, ACF, CE, CF, CFX) did not need intumescents seals, and the ratings were acquired without them. When AMSEC introduced the Gunsafe adaptations of TL composite safe lines (RE, RF, RFX), there was push-back from the dealers. This was due to the market standard where everyone doing fire rated Gunsafes included thermal-reactive seals (Palusol and others). Typical formed light body and thin door construction in Gunsafes results in vulnerable door fit and closure quality, hence expanding seals were a necessity. When AMSEC brought heavy-duty composites to the Gunsafe market, there was a notion that seals were necessary. It was probably as much about negative competitive sales than any other issue. After some resistance, the decision was made to add the seals to squash the unwarranted concerns. So, with the commercial/residential high security versions of the same safes, there are no seals. Now, you know the rest of the story.... |
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Posted: 3/1/2021 10:50:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Good question... get ready to laugh. The testing program for the TL safes (ACE, ACF, CE, CF, CFX) did not need intumescents seals, and the ratings were acquired without them. When AMSEC introduced the Gunsafe adaptations of TL composite safe lines (RE, RF, RFX), there was push-back from the dealers. This was due to the market standard where everyone doing fire rated Gunsafes included thermal-reactive seals (Palusol and others). Typical formed light body and thin door construction in Gunsafes results in vulnerable door fit and closure quality, hence expanding seals were a necessity. When AMSEC brought heavy-duty composites to the Gunsafe market, there was a notion that seals were necessary. It was probably as much about negative competitive sales than any other issue. After some resistance, the decision was made to add the seals to squash the unwarranted concerns. So, with the commercial/residential high security versions of the same safes, there are no seals. Now, you know the rest of the story.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By cfrea: I appreciate the response! I also had another question that you may be able to still answer. On the CFX line of safes there is no Palusol fire seal, but on the RFX gun safes there is. I am assuming these are the exact same safes just with a gun interior in them no? If so, why was no Palusol seal used on the CFX models? If I add a seal to the CFX will the fire survivability enhance for the items inside? Good question... get ready to laugh. The testing program for the TL safes (ACE, ACF, CE, CF, CFX) did not need intumescents seals, and the ratings were acquired without them. When AMSEC introduced the Gunsafe adaptations of TL composite safe lines (RE, RF, RFX), there was push-back from the dealers. This was due to the market standard where everyone doing fire rated Gunsafes included thermal-reactive seals (Palusol and others). Typical formed light body and thin door construction in Gunsafes results in vulnerable door fit and closure quality, hence expanding seals were a necessity. When AMSEC brought heavy-duty composites to the Gunsafe market, there was a notion that seals were necessary. It was probably as much about negative competitive sales than any other issue. After some resistance, the decision was made to add the seals to squash the unwarranted concerns. So, with the commercial/residential high security versions of the same safes, there are no seals. Now, you know the rest of the story.... I know I speak for a lot of people on ARF. Thanks for staying with us and sharing your expertise. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 11:23:35 AM EDT
[#34]
So, I finally replaced my old ESL5 on the used TL I purchased 5 years ago.
I noticed there was no separate spring-loaded relocker next to the lock body, as is commonly shown on most safes. Is this typical for this model? What is the redundant feature to prevent a thief from just punching the lock out? Thanks in advance for your advice! |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 1:33:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BGENE: I know I speak for a lot of people on ARF. Thanks for staying with us and sharing your expertise. X 1 Million 
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2021 10:58:01 PM EDT
[#36]
I may have a chance to pickup an amsec safe that was said to be model C115146 but I can't seem to find anything with google.
It looks to be a tl rated safe with 2 hour fire rating. They guy said it weighs 2400lbs though and wants $2000 for it. The only place I would be able to stick it is in my garage but worried about temp fluctuating and humidity. Is this something I should pass on? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2021 3:34:58 AM EDT
[#37]
@TSG As others have said, I really appreciate you taking the time to still answer questions, even after being let go from AMSEC. You are and have definitely been an asset to the safe community.
I wanted to ask another question as well. I noticed on some safes like the Amsec TL-15 rated safes, the bolt work on the inactive side pockets into holes on the inside of the safe, on the TL-30 rated safes that’s not the case and instead the inactive side just sits behind a piece of welded metal. Why is this? Wouldn’t the pockets theoretically provide more pry resistance and protection in an attack? Finally, are you planning continuing in the same industry with another company? Knowing your dedication and expertise in the field I’d love to support a company where you would have an impact on the designs of their safes in the future. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2021 6:57:56 PM EDT
[#38]
A quick Thanks to TSG. I am the proud owner of a BFX 7240. I love the new bolt work and am thankful that you were likely a big contributor to this upgrade. Love the new safe. Only wish you had still been around to sign the inside of it since you were a large factor in my purchase. Thanks Again!
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2021 2:49:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Hi TheSafeGuy, this is my very first post/comment on the forum, I just registered the account today so I can talk to you and interact with others on this thread.
Thank you so much for your time and all the knowledge and info you've provided, I've read every single one of your posts and they were extremely informative. earlier in the thread someone asked you about a company called "COMFO Safe", and you said there are a couple US distributors that import their safes under their own company name. I was wondering if Socal Safes is one of those companies? In one of COMFO Safe's videos posted on their youtube channel, they show a safe named "FX" being tested, this safe looks almost identical to SOCAL's FX-5524 International Fortress, and both models are named "FX". Do you know if those two are indeed the same safe or if SOCAL gets their safes from COMFO? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln0VNlRglrA Thank you again for everything Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: This company has been around for quite a while, selling under different names. Many Chinese companies manufacture under changing names and do most of their business under private labels. The COMFO brand is one of those new name, old company things to re-brand in an attempt to penetrate US markets. If you search the directories at MyHome@UL, the name CAMFO does not exist. There are at least two "distributors" I know of in the US that import these safes with their own label and pose as manufacturers, a practice that is becoming very commonplace. The company used to be an AMSEC customer out of Taiwan before they started sourcing from China. I visited them the first time way back in 1998 as I recall, when they were starting to sell our high-security safes in the Taiwan market. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2021 2:54:00 AM EDT
[#40]
Does anyone know anything about SOCAL Safes? and their TL-30X6 international fortress line?
How are their products? I tried to do some research online for them but can't seem to find anything, Socal seems to be a smaller company and there doesnt seem to be much info out there on them. Im in the market for a TL-30X6 safe and it's a big purchase for me so I'm trying to gather as much info as I can. |
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Posted: 4/2/2021 10:06:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swtsrhaz123: earlier in the thread someone asked you about a company called "COMFO Safe", and you said there are a couple US distributors that import their safes under their own company name. I was wondering if Socal Safes is one of those companies? In one of COMFO Safe's videos posted on their youtube channel, they show a safe named "FX" being tested, this safe looks almost identical to SOCAL's FX-5524 International Fortress, and both models are named "FX". Do you know if those two are indeed the same safe or if SOCAL gets their safes from COMFO? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln0VNlRglrA It's hard to confirm sometimes, but I would say 95% sure that the SoCal FX is indeed a private label model from the COMFO line (Jian Shun King Trading Co). |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2021 5:00:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: swtsrhaz123]
[#42]
Thank you so much for your answer.
Whats the advantage of going with a Amsec TL-30x6 (CFX4520) over a cheaper TL-30x6 like Surimax or WorldWide safes or something? Besides the details in craftsmanship. Is the barrier on the Amsec stronger and offer better protection? Does Amsec TL-30 CF body and TL-30X6 CFX body use the same type of concrete? both at 12000 PSI? Can you tell me in simple terms how CFX body gets so much stronger if both CF and CFX uses concrete as a primary defensive method/barrier and both Cf and CFX has steel fibers and nuggets in the concrete in their bodies? (without revealing any trade secrets, just a general idea) |
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DEU
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Posted: 4/3/2021 6:48:25 AM EDT
[#43]
For burglary protection the wall is rarely filled with pure concrete. What else is there determines how well it protects. A standard concrete additive for buildings is steel fibers (Steel Fiber Re-enforced Concrete), which makes it more resilient against impact and cracking and is used also in safes. There can be also hard (or not so hard) nuggets, rubber, steel rebar, etc.. Concrete is quite cheap, so it is quite common, but in higher rated safes there often a shift to other material bases. Patents are quite interesting what could be there. What is exactly there doesn't tell any manufacturer. You will get the best information if you cut open the safe's wall.
Is the door attacked in the TL-15/30 ratings from the side? Or is it attacked only from the front? If there are additional attacks to the door from the side there can also be additional protection against the bolts and bolt work from the side, e.g. with hard plate like materials. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2021 11:43:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Question for TheSafeGuy, or others with knowledge of the RFX safes.
I am looking at a RF703620, and it has a dial lock, with a key. It also has a fancy key secondary lock. What is the purpose, and practical use for these locks and keys? How would/do you use them in an average home gunsafe situation? I'm probably not going to carry that long secondary lock key around in my pocket! I don't think it is a determining factor in my purchase decision, I'm more just curious. |
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DEU
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Posted: 5/5/2021 2:20:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Not an expert of RFX safes, but lock is lock and safe is safe ...
AFAIK all locks must be unlocked to open that safe. The lock in the dial is a simple furniture lock. It has a small key and is not very difficult to defeat. The separate key lock is a proper safe lock. There should be detachable key bits available for this lock, which are quite small and can be worn easily on a key ring, possibly along the key for the dial. The safe lock is really additional security against a burglar, because two locks are more difficult to defeat than one. Both key locks can be used for so called "day-locking". This origins from banks and shops where clerks are around the safe the whole day and need sometimes access to the safe's contents throughout the day. Opening the combination lock is a bit of work, especially in high security safes with potentially 4-wheel locks or multiple combination locks. In this situation the combination lock(s) can be left open and the clerks only use a key to open and close the safe. In this situation no burglar can work for hours on a safe and the key lock is plenty protection against a quick grab. It is possible to use the dial lock and/or the safe lock for day-locking, but the dial lock can be defeated in minutes. Day-locking is probably very rarely useful in a residential setting, where the content is usually accessed once a day or very irregularly. My opinion is, that the dial lock is not worth all the nuisance. The key lock can be worth the nuisance, but that depends also on the own laziness. If it is in the end left unlocked or the key hangs next to the safe it was a waste of money (unless it makes a sale of the safe later on easier). |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2021 2:43:39 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johmem: Question for TheSafeGuy, or others with knowledge of the RFX safes. I am looking at a RF703620, and it has a dial lock, with a key. It also has a fancy key secondary lock. What is the purpose, and practical use for these locks and keys? How would/do you use them in an average home gunsafe situation? I'm probably not going to carry that long secondary lock key around in my pocket! I don't think it is a determining factor in my purchase decision, I'm more just curious. The Auxiliary Key Lock (S&G/FAS 6870) is a commercial enhancement not normally equipped on the "Gunsafe" version of the AmVault CE/CF/CFX lines. Remember, the RFX is a CFX with a Gunsafe interior and a few other items. So, in the commercial form, the Key-lock is typically used as a "Daylock", wherein the primary combo lock is left unlocked all day and they use the Keylock to open/lock the safe quickly. The FAS Lock is "Key Retaining", meaning you can't remove the key unless the lock is in the locked condition. So, it forces the User to lock the safe when they are done, or leave their keys hanging in the safe all day (not smart). When people order this option on the RF/RFX models, it never made any real sense because it's terribly inconvenient for homeowner use. It does increase security, no argument, but it's a royal pain to use it. |
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DEU
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Posted: 5/6/2021 2:06:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MartinHewitt]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: The FAS Lock is "Key Retaining", meaning you can't remove the key unless the lock is in the locked condition. So, it forces the User to lock the safe when they are done, or leave their keys hanging in the safe all day (not smart). It is IMHO better to permanently un-program it - which keeps the lock unlocked - than to have the keys hanging all day. Or to not buy it at all in the first place. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2021 3:10:22 PM EDT
[#48]
@TSG Out of curiosity how much influence did you have on the MAX series of safes? A family member of mine is getting a MAX5524 gun safe delivered in a few days. He was going to get a Hollon TL-15 but I convinced him to go with the MAX because I figured you had something to do with the safe. Also how different are they from the CFX series safes if you could comment on that. I know there is the obvious TL-30X6 vs TL-15, just curious how different they are in terms of construction being made oversees
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2021 9:06:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nobuzz67]
[#49]
Hello TheSafeGuy --
I am being offered a used safe described as an Amvault. The owner sent me pics with a serial number (724111) and Mfg. Date Code (106). Would you be able to tell me what model, exactly this is -- and maybe how old it is? Thanks. I asked the seller for details -- and he is only able to tell me it's an amvault. https://ibb.co/WP7hNTs |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2021 8:08:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nobuzz67: Hello TheSafeGuy -- I am being offered a used safe described as an Amvault. The owner sent me pics with a serial number (724111) and Mfg. Date Code (106). Would you be able to tell me what model, exactly this is -- and maybe how old it is? Thanks. I asked the seller for details -- and he is only able to tell me it's an amvault. https://ibb.co/WP7hNTs Well, I sent the info to Amsec and they gave me the details. At 2,000 lbs, it's too much safe for me. |
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