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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - my vault (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/9/2010 12:46:36 PM EDT
On edit: Info's been here long enough
Outside of the lock side looking in towards the room. 
I still need to build something up to put on the door for more storage. I've seen the pistol pockets Liberty sells, but I want something I can customize so I'll wind up doing something with plywood and carpeting/fabric. 
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Wow very cool. Whenever I get around to buying a house again, I'm definitely thinking about a basement vault room. Is all that cat5 just for your camera system? How many cams you running? That's a boatload of ethernet cable. Reminds me too much of work 
All that wiring is soomething...what is all that? |
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I'm not going to knock the roof because I would have done the same thing over trying to do it myself with concrete. That said, all the effort on the walls (and filling the cores)...... Your cabling wall reminds me of mine. I built a "closet" that is a long rectangle –– the front is a 19" rack (rack rails on studs) finished on the outside into a room. This provides access to the back of the rack and a big plywood backboard for the stuff. Being that you could use your vault as a "panic room" and I see you have the monitor there, I would recommend a big boy UPS to power a couple key cameras and that monitor so you can see the outside while secure including outside that door. Maybe a small low power fan to transfer air? Water, MRE's, etc. Nice job! ETA: Middle Atlantic makes a nice 3' (ish) wall mount, swing out rack that might work well for all of your stuff (DVR, patch panels, etc.) for a real clean look. The back (top to bottom) mounts to the wall/studs and sticks out a few inches. At that point there is a hinge and latch so you can swing the bulk of the rack and get access to the back of components. They are relatively inexpensive (compared to competing products anyway). |
| Sheetrock attached directly to a concrete outer wall, or any concrete wall is a no go without a vapor barrier, or better yet, an air gap and vapor barrier and insulation. Curing concrete lets off moisture, and the paper in regular sheetrock will absorb it and encourage mold growth. Concrete, depending on thickness can take years to cure. |
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Being a manufacturer of concrete precast, one of my big concenrs is that 4" of concrete, even with #3 bar isn't going to keep a concrete saw out...
We have portable 14" saws that would cut a hole in the wall large enough to step inside within 5-10 minutes... straight through the rebar. Anybody can buy those saws, and the saw blades pretty easily. Every mason I know has one. |
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USMC_2674 - How thick would the walls need to be before a concrete saw becomes inefficient? Would 8-inch walls be thick enough?? 14" masonry saws are very common. Depending on the brand of the saw, you get 6-6.5" of penetration. 8" IMO would be an absolute minimum before a saw could easily cut ALL the way through... BUT if you I make a cut through 6.5" of your 8" wall, I can sledgehammer my way in at that point IF you don't have sufficient rebar. Rebar should be placed not only in the middle but also at the very interior part of the 8" wall, the furthest point away from the saw making the cuts on the outside. A cage of rebar on the outside, with horizontal pieces of weldable rebar attached through each piece so that even if they cut through 6.5" of your wall, you still have rebar holding it together is highly suggested. Most people take 8" blocks, put rebar down it every foot or so and call that good... well, in my world that vault wall has a 2ft x 2ft hole cut out of it in 3 minutes, and a 2ft x 6ft door cut out in 10. If I was building a vault 10" would be the minimum (but my current plans for next year involve 12" vault walls reinforced with #7 bar every 6 inches) for me; and 12" is realistically impregnable without a huge air compressor, jackhammer, 14" or 21" masonry saw, some support frame work to hold the jackhammer horizontal, and several hours of time. But I'm one of the few people who know how easy it is and how available the tools are to break into a vault. They do have 21" masonry saws, but they are mostly mounted to tables instead of portable. There are some portable ones, but I bet you that < 1% of the masonry companies out there have them. Most masons just cut the piece front and back to get through thicker pieces (6" cut on one side, 6" cut on the other = 12" cut). Now, obviously we're talking about a person making some noise to get in... but they can do it very quickly with two guys. The equipment is VERY portable, easy to use on a wall, and common enough that every mason in your area has one. An 8" wall is fine for most people, we are talking about someone needing to A) know it is there B) having the means to rent a $50 / day saw from home depot C) have you not be home for 30 minutes while they take 10 minutes to cut through you wall, 3 minutes to break the cut up wall section down with a sledgehammer, and 16.5 minutes to make their getaway with your loot. Oh wait, that doesn't sound like that hard of a requirement. Semper Fidelis, Kent |
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An 8" wall is fine for most people, we are talking about someone needing to A) know it is there B) having the means to rent a $50 / day saw from home depot C) have you not be home for 30 minutes while they take 10 minutes to cut through you wall, 3 minutes to break the cut up wall section down with a sledgehammer, and 16.5 minutes to make their getaway with your loot. Oh wait, that doesn't sound like that hard of a requirement. Your post needs to be added to a tacked FAQ on building a vault. I have never read a better and more practical assessment of the the requirements necessary to ensure that a home vault remains impregnable to a very realistic threat. Kudos to you for sharing that with us. 
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An 8" wall is fine for most people, we are talking about someone needing to A) know it is there B) having the means to rent a $50 / day saw from home depot C) have you not be home for 30 minutes while they take 10 minutes to cut through you wall, 3 minutes to break the cut up wall section down with a sledgehammer, and 16.5 minutes to make their getaway with your loot. Oh wait, that doesn't sound like that hard of a requirement. Your post needs to be added to a tacked FAQ on building a vault. I have never read a better and more practical assessment of the the requirements necessary to ensure that a home vault remains impregnable to a very realistic threat. Kudos to you for sharing that with us. You're too kind. And just in case it was missed, my bolded text was sarcastic... 8" block with a little rebar and filled with concrete is NOT enough. Too easy to cut through with simple tools available for rent from Home Depot for less than $100 / day. The scary part is that in my county, there are at least 50 companies with the tools needed to do the job, with people who are used to using them on a daily basis for construction projects. Yet, people think a 4" wall (or even an 8") is good enough. |
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An 8" wall is fine for most people, we are talking about someone needing to A) know it is there B) having the means to rent a $50 / day saw from home depot C) have you not be home for 30 minutes while they take 10 minutes to cut through you wall, 3 minutes to break the cut up wall section down with a sledgehammer, and 16.5 minutes to make their getaway with your loot. Oh wait, that doesn't sound like that hard of a requirement. Your post needs to be added to a tacked FAQ on building a vault. I have never read a better and more practical assessment of the the requirements necessary to ensure that a home vault remains impregnable to a very realistic threat. Kudos to you for sharing that with us. You're too kind. And just in case it was missed, my bolded text was sarcastic... 8" block with a little rebar and filled with concrete is NOT enough. Too easy to cut through with simple tools available for rent from Home Depot for less than $100 / day. The scary part is that in my county, there are at least 50 companies with the tools needed to do the job, with people who are used to using them on a daily basis for construction projects. Yet, people think a 4" wall (or even an 8") is good enough. very true, however the point of a vault room is to slow down a thief. A good alarm system will do the rest. by good alarm system i mean one independent from the standard home system. have it so you can be called by your alarm when it goes off. i plan on having mine feed me video on my smart phone when the alarm goes off. it will email me, and call my cell phone. emails will contain snap shots of activity in the vicinity of my vault room. you can call the police with confidence saying your home is being broken into and you do not know if any family members are home, please go save my wife, dog, kids, etc. alarm goes off, when they enter the area with the vault room. so the 30 minute window will land the thief in prison as cops will arrive when they are just finishing up bashing the hole open. dogs, vault/vault rooms, a good home alarm system, and a even better vault alarm that can remotely contact you via cell phone. a battery backup to power the phone and computer equipment that the cameras run on is a good idea too. |
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very true, however the point of a vault room is to slow down a thief. A good alarm system will do the rest. by good alarm system i mean one independent from the standard home system. have it so you can be called by your alarm when it goes off. i plan on having mine feed me video on my smart phone when the alarm goes off. it will email me, and call my cell phone. emails will contain snap shots of activity in the vicinity of my vault room. you can call the police with confidence saying your home is being broken into and you do not know if any family members are home, please go save my wife, dog, kids, etc. alarm goes off, when they enter the area with the vault room. so the 30 minute window will land the thief in prison as cops will arrive when they are just finishing up bashing the hole open. dogs, vault/vault rooms, a good home alarm system, and a even better vault alarm that can remotely contact you via cell phone. a battery backup to power the phone and computer equipment that the cameras run on is a good idea too. Good point, too many people assume that when members post threads like this, they seem to assume that you are putting all your eggs in one basket, rather than having layers of security. I'm waiting for someone to criticize a set up by asking "How will you defend against someone trained to conduct explosive breaching?" 
Motion detector lights outside (even inside in some parts of the house), a home alarm system, a separate system like you described... Layering is good. |
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Quoted: Where did you find a vendor to buy the ceramic wool from. I maybe interested in building one of these for my home. http://stores.ebay.com/HIGH-TEMP-REFRACTORY-STORE |
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So USMC, how does one defeat, or at least slow down a concrete saw? Lead/aluminum will foul up abrasive blades, and from a quick google search it will also foul up diamond masonry blades (but I'm not sure how well). So putting lead/aluminum chunks in your concrete mix in place of some of the aggregate should slow them down significantly (they'll have to be constantly changing blades or cleaning the blades somehow). Is it cheap to add that much lead/aluminum to concrete? No, but it can sure make a big difference. |
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So USMC, how does one defeat, or at least slow down a concrete saw? The easiest solution is pour your wall 10" thick, with plenty of rebar... with some extra rebar concentrated on the inner 2" of the wall. Standard masonry saws give you 7-8" of cutting depth at a max. And jackhammering a vertical surface is hard and takes a much longer time than just cutting through. Semper Fidelis |
It looks cool
BUT... it has a wooden top???
House Fire = Burn thru that in a minute Burglary = Less than 5 minutes with a chainsaw Panic Room = Dump some gas on top and light a match I think you have some great skills and did an awesome job with the work you did. I just wanted to throw in my .02 for anyone else that was thinking of doing this. I know when I built my house I thought if someone saw that they had just been caught on tape as they were robbing me they may be tempted to just light a match and hope they destroy the evidence. So I made my vault room with 12" of concrete on all sides and on top as well. I keep the DVR locked in the room so I will atleast have some kind of evidence. |
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House Fire = Burn thru that in a minute You didn't read through the whole posts did you? Burglary = Less than 5 minutes with a chainsaw Unless you were the size of Bridget the Midget and had a similar sized chainsaw you wouldn't be able to use it over the ceiling for lack of space. Panic Room = Dump some gas on top and light a match It was never intended for use as a panic room. I think you have some great skills and did an awesome job with the work you did. Thank you I know when I built my house I thought if someone saw that they had just been caught on tape as they were robbing me they may be tempted to just light a match and hope they destroy the evidence. So I made my vault room with 12" of concrete on all sides and on top as well. In the spirit of arf.com ... post some pics in the Gun Room Picture thread or GTFO I keep the DVR locked in the room so I will at least have some kind of evidence. You should also have a back up DVR located elsewhere. My complete system has the DVR in the vault room as well as a second in another part of the property. The feed loops through the first into the second one. I actually did read thru the whole thing. I thought everything you did was great and you took time to do alot of small details that most people would skip. I am just pointing out an obvious weak spot for anyone else that decides to do this project. The ceiling you put in the vault may not have much room between it and the bottom of the floor joists but the floor joists are wood and the subfloor is wood. If someone was interested enough in what was in there they would just have to use a chainsaw from the floor above and cut the floor and then cut your ceiling. (likely to happen? probably not.) I didn't mean to offend you by my post. I just wanted to point out some things for other ppl that may be interested in building their own saferoom. To respond to your comment about posting pictures or GTFO. In the spirit of arf.com I choose not to display pictures of my guns or security measures online for anyone and everyone to see |
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I agree completely on that fact that we can't build anything to be 100% safe. I always look at things with the "worst case scenerio" mindset. So I do apologize for coming off in anyway offensive.
My room is roughly 8x20 with about a 9ft ceiling. I poured the walls when we poured our basement then used bridge decking that I picked up from a contractor for the ceiling and poured 12" of concrete on top. The room is below our covered porch. The walls are 12" w/ a truckload of rebar tied into the ceiling. Had www.smithsecuritysafes.com make the vault door out of 1/2" steel plate with an inside swing incase of debris from a tornado destroying the house while we are in the room. I then put 2" styrofoam against the concrete walls/ceiling and taped the seems. Framed 2x4 walls and filled the walls with plain R-13 insulation. Probably overkill with the amount of concrete but it was cheap enough to do. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - my vault (Page 1 of 2)
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