@GLD1980


I should have worded that better.  I was trying to say the OP of the thread on the other forum (ST) had made that statement, not you.

What a dumpster fire that hide thread turned into.

@Dr_Nimslow

Wasn't your fault Doc. I am the one who misunderstood him and it happened before your post. He chose his path though and I took the bait. Two assholes collided. I issued retractions for my fuck up but it doesn't change the fact that he is a rude POS who needs to EAD and had it coming. The way I see it is God places people like me into the path of people like him to even the score.

I do apologize for bringing trash to the technical forums to all in our thread.

Picked it up today.  

Attached File

Just got an email that the ambi charging handles are in stock at sig. I already sourced mine so just putting the info out there.

Thanks!  Ordered.

Enjoy and get back to us with the results after you beat it up some. Take care.

Thanks for the heads up, my email alert must be broken.

Snagged one up and should get to pick my rifle up this week.

This will be the first factory AR I’ve ever purchased.

Built a bunch of them, never bought pre assembled.

Wheird

Can anyone in the group help me answer the question above from a user at https://forum.308ar.com/topic/21595-spare-parts-for-the-sig-716i/. I tried to source a bolt from a local gun shop in WA to compare with my 716I but they have no .308 AR's, let alone a DPMS style BCG.

All I can attest to is that the Midwest Industries AR10 reaction rod DOES NOT fit the BCG raceway of the 716i.

Beyond that I do not have anything to compare it to.

Thanks for that info. Is the bolt face lug pattern different from DPMS?
Why do you suppose it doesn't fit?

The proprietary charging handle would align with that. When I get mine in I’ll see if a DPMS style bolt fits the Sig carrier. It’ll be a bit before I’ll be able to verify headspace though.

It doesn't get anywhere near to the chamber to find out. It seems the raceway is narrower than 'standard', either all the way around around, or towards the bottom only.

Either way, the reaction rod is a no-go.

ETA: you know... I should try my standard small frame rod just to see if the clever bastards didn't somehow use that raceway dimension, somehow...

@Ex_Sanguine_Nation

Thanks for your time helping to figure this out.

Can the 716I take any aftermarket AR trigger, or is it like the MCX where there can be issues?

@Ohio_556 dropped a Geissele SSA in his 716I and loves it.

I added a JP Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit and it greatly assisted the current trigger from being a heavy and crisp 8lb-8.5lb pull to a 4.5lb-5lb crisp light pull.

Yes.  I currently have the ALG one in mine.  I'll upgrade to the Geiselee when they are back in stock.  

Coming along.  DeadAir muzzle device installed and ready for my Sandman when it gets out of jail.  Ambi CH on order.  Leupold 3-9x50 on there for now.  

Need to figure out which stock I want to put on to balance the weight out a little.  Front heavy out of the box.  Was surprised they use an SL-K instead of a regular SL.  Also on the fence about a bipod.  I have a Harris in the drawer but I’m trying to keep the weight down.  May try the Magpul.  

More to come.  Possible trigger upgrade after a few trips out.  


Attached File

Attached File

@BigBrakes76

Your SIG is coming together perfect. Congratulations man! I can't wait to see your Sandman mounted. Take Care.

Appreciate it!

Looking forward to reporting back with performance, updates etc.  

Great resource here!

I really wish Sig would come out with a new 308Win semi auto with the same kind of recoil system used by the MCX, or the SG-751.  That would eliminate the need for the buffer tube & spring.

Hello all.

I am going to pull the trigger on either a 716i or a Saint Victor 308 this week. Since this is the 716i thread, I thought I would ask this questions regarding the 2 rifles.

I like the fact the Sig is battle tested with the Indian Army and it looks as though Sig may stick with this one for a while, however, the amount of proprietary parts is concerning for me. The Saint Victor uses SR25 DPMS pattern parts, so it would be easy to get charging handles, stocks, parts kits, etc and that is what is giving it the edge.

I was wondering if any or all of you could help answer a few questions regarding the Sig?

1. Is the handguard interchangeable? I am a creature of habit and like certain things on my handguard.  I’m not a fan of the Sigs,
2. Is the buffer tube milspec or is that proprietary as well?
3. Aside from the BCG and charging handle, are there any other proprietary parts I need to worry about?

Thank you so much for your time in helping me make this decision!

The hand guard is proprietary. I haven’t heard of any alternatives from Sig or the aftermarket, yet.

It takes MIL diameter stocks.

I could be wrong, but I believe the grip, fire control group, and buffer assembly are the only non proprietary parts.

I was in your same spot, weighing an M5 build, the Victor, or the 716.

The M5 would be the least proprietary, but parts are hard to find. If you built one to the same spec, the M5 is also heavier. A rail better than Aero’s also makes it more expensive.

The Victor has a lot going for it. It’s actually lighter than the Sig even. End of the day I can’t point out flaws like with the M5.

The 716 on the other hand is a global rifle now. India will find any flaws and Sig will have to adapt based on a contract. The fact that it’s now the highest production 308 AR, and the most widely fielded is what drew me to it. Should it see continued success, it has potential to be the new standard.

Thank you so much for your insight on this.  So for me, it’s down to the 2 rifles.  One is less proprietary and all around good (Saint), but the Sig is getting military tested and it’s the highest produced 308…

I assume you are enjoying your 716?

Unfortunately mine is still in transfer. Counting down the days though!

Please let me know how you like it!

@Medicin3Man

I was over at the Armory Life talking with the forum about this.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/saint-victor-308-competition.1267/#post-106526
@KillerFord1977 at Armory Life has the best counter argument.

@olds442tyguy  here explained it well.

Basically the SIG 716I is built up to be a true battle rifle. Many don't need that. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308's are top quality MSR AR-308/ AR-10 type rifles. They appeal to the masses because they can do it all good in a lightweight package. It's both accurate and reliable. They will both outlive us all. Just one was built to survive Infantry life.
The biggest drawback for me with the Victor was its pencil barrel. I once melted an FN 249 SAW barrel as a private many moons ago and now take rates of fire and barrel swaps extremely serious. My M1A SOCOM16 has one of the poorest abilities to sustain a high rate of fire without damage or failure so I went shopping for better. Though I wanted another Saint especially the Victor .308, I break shit and needed more durability for a 7.62!
The SIG 716I Carbon Steel fully Nitrided barrel was built for heavy sustained and select fire shooting for the Indian Army.

Why that matters and this may sound stupid but I live 60min south of Seattle, 90min north of Portland. WA state TODAY just enacted new legislation effectively rendering Police somewhat useless. We may seriously find ourselves on our literal own soon, which is fine with me! I can take care of more than just me but I may need to get on it and I can't have a heavy weapon that won't bring it when I need it.

The difference in weight is most assuredly in the thicker profile barrel and built up handguard.
The SIG Handguard is keyed to its upper for proper alignment and mounted using a cross-bolt clamping-system that secures it firmly to the top of the low-profile barrel-nut creating a superior and rigid mounting surface. The SIG full length gas system creates a softer recoil impulse to soften the blow of .308......

I could go on but if you don't need those features or enhanced combat level reliability, which most Americans don't, then the Saint Victor .308's is a great rifle and would be my alternative choice! I have three Springfields, two of them are Saints and I love them and trust them too! Feel confident with either choice.

All that said the SIG 716I is still the best AR-308/ AR-10 type rifle for the money. The truth is many of us don't need a combat rifle or an SR-25 lol. Buy whichever of the two with confidence! Springfield Armory is not liked by many but they make shit that goes bang well!
The reason I bought my SIG 716I was to Primary my Secondary Heavy, My M1A SOCOM16
Attached File

My SA Saint Edge Pistol w/ 10.3"bbl has been flawless.
Attached File

I'll pick up my SA Saint Victor PDW 5.5"bbl next week.
Attached File

@GLD1980

Thank you very much. I actually believe I read those posts and your information really has helped me make up my mind!

I, too, break shit and knowing that the Sig can take the abuse I plan to put it through (and some I don’t plan on), solidifies my decision.

Thank you all for the input!

@Medicin3Man

Congrats and welcome to the club. Let us know your feedback and future plans with your 716I has they develop and definetly posts pics.

Hopefully we continue building this group to solve problems and highlight achievements within the platform together.

Yes sir.  Will be picking up this week!

In.  After researching everything I could about AR-10 pattern guns, I finally found a great deal from Osage County Guns.  Hopefully, my 716i will be here by the end of the week.  

@rhaney02

Welcome to the club! I look forward to seeing what you do to yours and reading your experiences. Please report back once you get it and take it out.

10-4-Certainly will.  Next will be deciding on an optic.  

I’m still undecided on an optic. I think being 308 I’d like a FFP LPVO. Been looking at the EOTech Vudu, but might save up for a Razor Gen III.

Might even throw a beater LPVO on it for the time being.

I picked up a 716i yesterday from a semi local LGS. Went into the store just looking as they had a couple of 308 guns listed but not this one.
They had them in the SIG display case though and had three more in the back new in their boxes. Ordered the ambi charging handle, SIG has
2 left according to their website. Put on a Riton 1-8x24 LVPO to take it out to the range on Saturday. Leaving the stock trigger springs in but
I have JP spring set to put in but I want to see how it shoots stock. It will interesting to see how it compares to a gun I put together last year
which is a clone of the 716i using AP upper and lower and a BA 16" barrel and BCG with a Hiperfire trigger set.

Congratulations and welcome. Please let us know what you think and how it compares to your build. I look forward to hearing what you do with it. Also post us some pics.

I'll be taking mine down to the range on Monday.  I'll try to get some pics while I'm giving it a workout.
I just got my mount in today from LaRue for my 1-8x24 Vortex Strike Eagle, so I'll probably be trying to get
it zeroed.  This rifle is doing double duty with optics.  I'll use the Vortex for the precision stuff and the ACOG
it currently wears for the "run and gun" stuff.  

Do you have the Gen II Strike Eagle? I’m considering the OPMOD SE Gen II while I save for a Razor Gen III.

@scottfn308

Have fun, take some pics, and let us know how it goes.

Picked mine up Thursday.  Also ordered $200.00 worth of extra P-Mags.  Thinking I'm going with either a Burris RT-6 or Vortex 1-8 Strike Eagle with the BDC2 reticle (like it more than the BDC3).  Mount will either be an ADM QD or Warne Tactical X-SKEL QD.

Any opinions?

Pics to follow....

I probably have the Gen 1, since I have had it for about 4 years or so.  

I recieved a call earlier this week from SIG's Corporate Office. It was a response to an email I sent them regarding the 716I, where I referenced a few threads and requested some information while also making some suggestions. Specifically I asked about Future Parts availability and interchangeability with DPMS/SR-25, Caliber and Barrel/Handguard Modularity and the specific build process and type of materials used for the barrel.

I was informed parts are coming soon. Unfortunately with the Indian Contract and pushing out commercial 716I's, amongst a few other important projects has SIG extremely busy filling back orders for the near future. They simply don't have the time to start making spare parts for commercial sales but they are going to be incorporated soon. Right now the only way to get SIG spare parts is by calling in and requesting a warranty replacement which 9/10 will require you to send in your rifle in order to diagnose and correct the deficiency.

I was also told that due to there being no adopted standard amongst AR-308/ AR-10 type rifles, SIG manufactures thier own proprietary in house parts, which they feel are more than adequate. One point that was repeatedly mentioned when I asked if the 716I's barrel was Cold Hammer Forged(CHF), was that the 716I barrels are DLC, Carbon Steel, button rifled, Nitrided barrels. I'm so confused now and need to go to hip pocket manufacturing 101.

Can someone explain exactly how that affects us has owners because I have no clue. I read button rifling is good for an accurate barrel but I need to read up more and get educated about what are the positive and negative effects. I've also never heard of DLC, is it similar to PVD and is this just a fancier word for their Nitriding process or is this an additional benefit?

I also tried to confirm the possibility of future platform expansion and no comment was made. It was inferred that the success of the 716I globally would be the factor driving possible expansion into different barrel lengths and calibers. With competition inside house from MCX, MPX/NGSW-SPEAR, 320, 365, Legacy Pistols & MIL contracts, theres alot of mouths to feed in house before the 716I gets the attention it needs to effectively become competitive with the Top Houses in the AR-308/ AR-10 market. The SIG rep did agree it wouldn't take much to make a 6.5CM since it was already offered in their piston 716 and tooling exists that can be easily converted but it was also inferred that we aren't quite their yet. Any extras also cost extra. The truth is the 716I is a juvenile platform that has enjoyed a great start but there is still more proving to be done! This is a Marathon not a Sprint.

So for now we must basically be happy with the single serving of excellence we have received knowing access to purchasing spare parts is possibly 6 months to a year out. We must use it for all intensive purposes to Hunt, for Duty or Home Security,  Precision and Competition and for Plinking. We must measure its abilities at performing in these roles and report back here so we can determine what upgrades we can possibly get SIG to invest in. At the end of the day, it's apparent the 716I is just another commodity, but at the moment that commodity happens to be the Best AR-308/ AR-10 type rifle for the money in my opinion.

A bit about coatings:

PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition):

The PVD technology consists of three primary deposition methods, evaporation, sputtering and cathodic arc. The PVD coating process is an environmentally friendly vacuum coating process that has the ability to apply various films at various process temperatures. This flexibility allows coatings to be applied to a variety of substrates. To view the coatings currently offered by NCT choose the Coatings option from the menu. Components manufactured from plastic to steel have been successfully coated using the PVD coating process. Application reports and various application areas for PVD coating can be found by choosing the Applications option from the menu.

DLC (Dimond Like Carbon):

Diamond Like Carbon or otherwise referred to as DLC or amorphous carbon coatings are the newest family of vacuum deposited coatings available to improve the performance of products. Diamond Like Carbon coatings are unique in that they are the only group of low friction coatings that exhibit a high surface hardness and a low friction coefficient providing wear resistance which keeps the low friction coating at the wear interface where it is needed for a longer period of time.

Salt Bath Nitride / Melonite / QPQ is yet another metal treatment all together.

The above info came from: https://www.northeastcoating.com/products/dlc-coating if anyone wants to learn more about coatings. Sig has been utilizing PVD and DLC coatings for a long time so I trust that they picked the right coating for the job.

As to the "proprietary" Sig 716i parts, that doesn't bother me one bit. To be honest the AR-10 / 308 platform is a mess as it is and a large reason why I haven't built a large frame AR to date. Even if you stick to the same manufacturer as in the Aero Precision M-5, there is a long thread full of problems. I messed around with building one but ultimately I just didn't want to deal with it.

That where the 716i comes in...

It's a well made and designed rifle with ambi controls, (important to me as I shoot left handed) in an affordable - ready to go, military issued package all for a reasonable price.

Mine is in my "paint booth" (my garage ) and I'll post an update soon, it is coming along nicely. When I field striped it, I was very impressed with the quality and fitment of the rifle. The stock trigger is not bad at all (very smooth) all be it a bit on the heavy side.

@Just10mm

Thanks so much for the detailed information on coatings. It explains alot. SIG's manufacturing and workmanship is always top quality IMO. I too am not concerned about the proprietary parts. At least they got it right with their first DI AR-308 and it uses great parts and finish techniques to give us one hell of a rifle. I look forward to reading more of your experiences and seeing your rifle. Take care.

Went down to my range today with the 716I.  Did decent with some ammo, not so good with others.  
First off, here is a pic with it wearing the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x24.
Attached File
   

This scope had to be returned after this range session due to being very cloudy and out of focus regardless of the position of the
ocular focusing ring.  Vortex, as usual took care of it, and paid return shipping back to them.  In about a week or so I'm sure it will
be replaced or returned good as new.  

Here is a pic of it wearing the ACOG which I switched to after the Vortex became too cloudy to effectively use.  
Attached File
   

This target was shot at 100yds using PPU 155gr Match Line ammo from S&G Ammo.  The vertical and horizontal
spaces between the triangles are 1" in width.  I pulled the low shot, but the others are a pretty good group.  
Attached File


This target was shot with the ACOG at 50 and 75 yards using field type unsupported prone.
Ammo was Wal-Mart value pack 150gr Federal with LC headstamp.  Black dot is approximately
3" in diameter.  
Attached File
 

This rifle seems to like the PPU ammo, and shoots the LC decent out to about 150yds.  
I think a better trigger and some more work with the replaced Vortex will lead to better results.  It should also be noted that
the 716I has a bit more felt recoil than the FN/FAL (also pictured) that was shot on the same day with the same ammunition.  
Muzzle rise on the two rifles was approximately the same for both shooters.  

More reports to come........................

Note that the Geissele reaction rod will fit the 716i, you just have to remove the steel shell deflector from the upper receiver.

That is really good to know information. It’s just pinned on to the receiver isn’t it?

I’m not going to be able to align my work hours with my FFL for a few weeks at least so I’m impatiently waiting.

Out of those 2 choices, I’d go with the Burris RT-6.  

Correct. Through hole, roll pin, punches in/out either way, deflector moves toward the barrel to uninstall.

I apologize for asking question that has probably already been answered, but what is the barrel finish on the inside? I can't find whether it's chromed, nitrided, or unlined.

I believe it's Nitrided.