Today the ATF tracing center called our store to request disposition info on a pistol that came through the store several years ago.  The sales guy that answered the phone looked up the info and gave it to them.  He then walked to my office and said, "hey, the ATF just called to do a trace on a pistol you bought; who'd you sell it to?".  So I thought for a bit and came to the conclusion I never sold the gun and it should still be at my house.  Of course then I start thinking about how someone could have stolen the gun without me not knowing it.  After verifying I did in fact still have the gun I called the ATF tracing center, both to give them that info and to see what I could find out.  The person I spoke with said they had no idea why the trace was requested as they are not told that and stated that they got the info they needed earlier from the sales guy and that they were good.

So, WTH?  Did someone just screw up the serial number they were tracing?  I know this is not an exact science because when we get a trace request our sales guys can't find they get kicked to me and every time it has been for a gun that we never received.

I've had a trace request for a Kahr MP6 pistol.............no such model by Kahr ever.
I asked if it was for a Kahr PM9........."no sir, a Kahr MP6" serial#123456 is what was requested by the agency"

I told them I had transferred a PM9 with that serial# and faxed in the 4473.

Never heard another word from ATF.

A trace request can only be initiated by a law-enforcement agency, usually because a firearm has been recovered at a crime scene.

Now, it's not very well known but there are a few manufacturers that accidentally duplicated runs of serial numbers.  Your gun may be one of those.  Alternatively whoever entered the trace may have transposed digits in the serial number of the gun, or entered the wrong model number, or... you get the idea.  Remember that it's a government IT system just like any other: garbage in, garbage out.

Op is in for a early morning raid by local swat.

Somebody fudged the numbers.  I love when an agency calls directly.  Had an FBI agent from Memphis wanting info on a revolver that "I manufactured".  I laughed and said that's a Taurus 85, may wanna call them or go through ATF Trace.  Also, had an ATF agent from my local field office call me about a pistol I never had.  He wasn't happy when I said I'm not even going to open my books because I know I've never had that make/model.  Compliance inspection came soon after.

Was the gun new when your store received it? If so then it was probably just an error in the request.

Had one awhile back that made me scratch my head. Called for a trace and scanned and sent it in. I remember the guy. A couple of days later he brings the gun that the trace was performed on in to help get the choke out of the barrel. I figured it had been stolen from the guy or something but was surprised when he brought it in. Checked the info we wrote down and yep same gun and guy.

I just got one today, which is really weird, because I don't sell guns!  I have done a few transfers for friends, but have never sold a gun..

I really pissed them off when they asked and I started giggling...

You should fire that employee, and in the future make sure all bat-f*ck requests go through management.

do you know the Clintons? 

This has me wondering. Could you use the FOIA to find out who the requester was?

I am assuming the firearm was purchased used..?
There is the slimmest of possibilities someone was investigated and during that investigation the firearm in guestion popped up by paper work found or multiple sales form or previously purchased in a registration state, etc. and they wanted to know where it was ? Most likely to see if a known associate of the person being investigated popped up.
The fact that ATF did not inform you to fax the 4473 copy or say an agent was coming by or to hold the firearm until they got back to you. Tells me it was not an ATF initiated investigation, like firearms violations. At least not yet. Some other LE Agency just running some info to see what names pop up.
If ATF comes to take an original 4473. You make a copy and have the agent sign the margin with ID info and put it back in the file. Although they usually show up with a letter from the office on ATF letterhead. Just staple it to the copy and file.
I have been through all sorts of traces and investigations for all sorts of reasons. 2 sting operations in shop and photo line ups. It is not a big deal.

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Posting a comment.......Priceless.

You'd fire someone for complying with a federal requirement?  How long you been in the business?

Naw, fire the employee for giving the transferee a heads-up about the trace.  Of course, when the transferee is the boss the subsequent conversation will be a ton of fun.

Mistakes certainly happen, especially when your'e talking about the ATF.

I once had an argument with a trace request that was very clearly the wrong manufacturer(spelling mistake), but oh well.

I know a small manufacturer who got a trace request for a gun that was in ATF possession. Not quite sure what happened there.

That's how trace request happen. LE agency recovers firearm and initiates trace request with ATF National Tracing Center.
It starts with the manufacturer>distributor>dealer>first 4473 transfer.

Someone's about to experience the sweet, succulent taste of peppered angus.

Bare back.

No reach around and

NO FUCKIN LUBE.



 

Please explain why?  The guy still has the firearm in his possession.

When I was 21 gun shop I frequented got a trace request for a gun they sold to me. At the time I was in the shop too. They gave me the phone and I told them I still had gun (at home).  6 and 8 look similar on some guns (RPB M-10).

I was kidding.

Got cha

Let me clarify this. The gun had never been sold to the public . Yet 2 trace request were sent over a year apart.

If it was in ATF possession as you said then how was it never sold to the public?
Odd post is odd.

What is the company name?

Not if you know the backstory.  He's basically twisting the ATF's tail.

Yes he is being intentionally vague.

So.........what is the backstory?

Yeah. Inquiring minds want to know.

It was my company!

When R. Lee Ermy's "MAIL CALL" was at the creek we had a gun that was on the show.

A distributer had a semiauto version built by us so that he capitalize on the publicity.  It was a one of a kind type of build.  It was delivered to the distributer.  Then promptly stolen with several other guns in an overnight robbery.

Thief gets pulled over for having the "1/4 scale Ma Duce model" (sold by SARCO @ the same creek and stolen from the same shop) in the back window of his ghetto cruiser.....One of a kind gun with many others found in the trunk.

ATF traces the gun when it was recovered....puts it in the vault in ATL office.

BUT WAIT: One year later ATF traces again?   I was somewhat incredulous about the trace and demanded to know why the gun was being as it was in the ATF property vault in Atlanta.....I was told that was impossible as the gun was recovered in Houston TX just that day?

Called the Atlanta office and got the Texas two step (pun intentional) and had the owner (Hit & Run Guns) go down to the ATF office and ask to see his gun.   ATF refused.

BUT WAIT:

One year later owner gets called by ATF and told to come get his gun...(He had called me about it) and less than 5 minutes later the damned thing got traced a third time just before they gave it back.....

I later found out that nearly all guns get traced at least twice for admin reasons and that "trace" numbers do not mean crime guns or even the number of guns held by LE. (Meaning right before they are given back or destroyed, they are traced again)    

I also found out that the SAC from Atlanta was in TX the time of the second trace and was eventually removed from office (not fired because she was ATF first female black SAC).

Now if you want a real story you should look into the ATF search for Ramsey A. Bear

RA Bear. Been a while since I've heard that name. Does he still warrants out on him?  Hahaha

So.......... whiskerz wrote: "Let me clarify this. The gun had never been sold to the public . Yet 2 trace request were sent over a year apart."

That's a bit disingenuous to say the least.
ATF DID in fact possess the firearm and its no different than any other trace for a gun recovered from a gun shop burglary or theft.