The market is the pits right now. We are a small shop with firearms, ammo, tactical gear. What products are other small shops adding to take up the slack?

Most of the shops in my area also offer fishing gear, camping gear and such, they do alright, but none of them are getting rich right now.

Talked to one fella today, he's selling AKs far above ARs.

Maybe that's what the Commie Antifa's are buying?

Most places around here sell hunting gear. Clothing, shotguns, etc.

My buddy that runs a shop just kept putting away money over the last few years planning for a drop if a republican won. Counting on things staying a boom probably isn't a great strategy.

ETA: not a dig. For something more constructive, you may just have to try and do a few big promos or work with a training group and offer some discounts with a gun or something. This could bring people in that haven't already spent all their gun money for the year.

I'm not sure if this belongs here, if not mods feel free to move to delete it.

I work for a firearms manufacturer in Oregon. Came here from Daniel Defense, and Knight's Armament before then. When I was at DD last year, things were going so well that we had to invent was to spend the money. Since coming here, I often find myself doing more cold calls to buying groups and distributors trying to find an "in". Hell, I even had the largest buying group tell me they are not accepting new firearm manufacturers right now. I've never seen things this slow in my 6 years in the industry. I'm sure some of it has to do with being with a smaller company vs. a large established organization, but even then some dealers I've talked to seem to be either doing good or barely scraping by.

It's pretty scary, especially moving across the country to a new job, but we're getting by with direct online purchases.

SMOS or Noveske?

Radian Weapons

The election gave everyone in the industry a punch to the gut.  They stocked up for the other person hoping to ride the frenzy.  When the the dust cleared..............................
Federal has laid off people, and now other changes are occuring such shutting down the week of the 4th.  
Federal is cutting hours in their centerfire production dept.  People who were used to getting built in overtime are not getting it.  
Rimfire and Primers are not hit by this....

As one of the local custom small OEM shops management said.........they are glad that they are not in the low end AR business.............
Look at the price of DPMS Oracles, Colt 6920's, and other stuff is going lower.....................

@SxPxDx
Tell them to start selling (semi) stripped lowers again. That was the stupidest change I think you guys made.


@scottyblank

I don't work in the industry, but maybe team up with a local range, offer some sort of package deal? You advertise for them (range sessions with gun purchase, they advertise for you kinda deal?)
Hunting gear? Survival gear / prepper stuff?
Archery? Bow hunting gear?
Archery range in town? Same deal as above..tit for tat advertising?
do you guys do any custom services? Cerekote? Small installs like sights (do you sell aftermarket sights?) Stippling?
Local shop here teamed up with a local Kydex holster maker to sell his stuff, maybe you can?

Hope this rambling helps

We're actually going to be doing lowers again very soon, and I agree.

@SxPxDx

Well as long as they aren't ridiculously overpriced, I'll definitely be snagging one.

I don't want to crap on OP's thread, but yes they will be reasonably priced for what they are.

I think it's everyone. Larue just put their mounts on sale for the first time ever... and I'm not even interested. As a consumer I don't mind. It's a good time to stock up.

As a consumer myself, I think the time to buy is now. As a sales guy for a manufacturer, it really sucks right now. National level distributors are hesitant to purchase anything that they cant flip quickly, and individual dealers are either dealing with a decrease in traffic or are so stocked up that they have no need for new items or expensive items.

From the manufacturer side of things, the time leading up to 41F and the election reminded me of the post Sandy Hook surge. Dealers were making money hand over fist and could not place orders fast enough. There were some that I literally had to tell them to order less because I knew at some point, just like 2012, things would slow down again and they'd be stuck with a huge inventory.

I get that our rifles are expensive, but we're not trying to compete with DD, Bushmaster, or other typical AR makers.

There are foreign made knock offs being made and sold in the US which does devalue the brand but we aren't the only manufacturer affected by such a thing. When they are brought to our attention we contact the dealer and inform them, along with those that sell our legitimate product below MAP. Sometimes people simply don't know there is a MAP if they purchase through distribution channels. While we do give the benefit of doubt to the dealer, we do pursue these matters legally if need be. When I was at Daniel Defense I was contacted by an ICE agent who seized a large shipment from overseas with thousands of counterfeit rails and had 4 or 5 members of that store in custody. Needless to say we cooperated with them fully in order to help establish and strengthen their case. With the internet being accessible worldwide and foreign nationals being allowed into SHOT Show with cameras, it's hard to put an absolute stop to the counterfeit products. I remember distinctly asking a foreigner to stop taking photos in KAC's booth one year (company policy at SHOT), only to see him walk down the aisle, change over to a telephoto lens, and try and take photos.

I starting reading this thinking "Hey, I know of someone who made a similar move" before realizing you used to be my KAC Rep.

Would you be the go to for opening a Dealer Account with Radian? About to be doing some heavy ordering in the near future, and was wanting to stock your products.

Stalker!

Yep, I'm the man here for that.

While I don't speak for everyone, I think I'm you're typical AR collector. By collector, I mean by mid-level products, but really, we don't shoot too often. Having $1,500 wrapped up in a rifle is ok to us, but the price point of a Radian rifle is insane for a guy that shoots less than 500 rounds per year.

Who is your target demo with these rifles?

Not trying to flaunt my money, as there are plenty of people with bigger bank accounts on here, but I have a paid for $305k house, $87k rental property, and $50k liquid cash in the bank. When I'm scrolling through Instagram, and see a Radian rifle, I'm like damn, that looks sweet. But it's a Radian, and Radian costs a fortune.

When Lexus first came out to the market, it was moderately priced for the time, and it really shook the boots of typical luxury manufacturers like Mercedes and BMW. All of the luxuries, at a cheaper cost. We had the ES250 when it first came out in 1990, not everyone knew it was just a rebadged Camry. Lexus worked their way up to where they are today, commanding prices in excess of $95k for some of their vehicles. But this took time, and people trust the product.

No one has heard of Radian, a few have heard of AXTS.

I probably don't even make sense right now, as it's almost 6am, and I'm going back to sleep.

Honestly, I thought the same exact thing when I came here. We were selling hundreds of guns per month at DD, and hundreds of guns per year at KAC. While Radian is nowhere near the size of either company, we still do pretty good in regards to rifle sales. Much better than I thought we would be in fact.

Personally, I've got a couple of BCM rifles, a DD, and an old Bushmaster that was my first AR sitting in my safe right now. All of them are great guns and I'd never part with any of them, except maybe the DD if the price was right, but that's just a personal thing and has nothing to do with the gun itself.

With Daniel Defense we started branding our guns as the Joe Blow citizen's AR-15. KAC had the military lineage to support the HK motto of "we are better than you". We don't have either of those here at Radian. In reality, we don't have much in the way of branding or marketing other than a ton of pretty pictures. But, you have to look at it as we're still relatively new on the scene, we're focused on getting our ducks in a row before we try and jump into every single gun magazine or website, and we are trying our best to make the best AR rifle we can. Some will dig it and some will not. That's just life.

We're not trying to target Joe Blow who's M&P Sport is the greatest rifle in the world to them. Our demographic is similar to that of KAC (as an example, because that is what I know). A person who takes their shooting seriously, has the income to support their habit, probably already owns a number of high end guns, and appreciates good quality and craftsmanship. Yes, the guns are expensive. I wholeheartedly admit that but, the reality is you really are getting what you paid for. I have never in my short life in this industry seen a factory rifle so well put together with the same attention to detail, and actually shoots with a 1 MOA guarantee. Josh, the owner and lead engineer, is borderline autistic in his approach to quality.

Well, as a boutique brand, I think you guys need more than just a sub-moa gun, more than excellent fit and finish. You need a lifestyle brand makeover.

Look at Noveske for example, their cult following is peculiar, but I think it has to do with their lifestyle branding.

Set up a brewing operation.  Build a tasting room.  Buy a pizza oven.  

Hit up 2 gun shops today.

They seam to be selling more of the traditional hunting style guns and older used guns. New stuff seams to be sitting.

And the lower end carry guns still seam to be somewhat popular. Taurus etc...

The last 10 transactions I have had been online shipped to a local FFL who charges $10.00 and brings the gun and 4473 to you. When I order a gun it is literally brought to my house or work and is 100% legal.



My suggestion..
I think Online shopping of guns is the future and Gun shops better recognize this. Do $5.00 transfers and advertise that heavy in your area +/- 25 Miles away and you will have a huge amount of foot traffic. Get on with Gun genie and carry reloading supplies in bulk at a fair price. And you will do great . Gun Shop in Winterville GA does this ($10.00 Transfer) Sporting Arms and they always have people in their.

Absolutely not legal.  Under federal law all transfers must occur on the licensee's premises or at a gun show.  Taking the gun/4473 to the buyer's premises and doing the transfer there is a no-no.

I wish FFL's would read and fucking understand the laws and rules as they are written, you don't have to like them, but right now, you need to follow them!

It is not legal to do a transfer or sale away from the address on the FFL unless it is at a gun show.  Don't brag so loudly about this. You say it is 100% legal.  I have read the regulations and they say it is not.  If you can find where it is legal, please post it for the FFL holders to be enlightened.  

UberGuns

Isn't there a form for FFLs to transfer a firearm when shipping to an in-state buyer?

I purchase almost exclusively from my LGS but so far nothing that he has on the shelf.  I ask what a DD M4V11Pro is, or I put a Mark 6 1x6 on it and he was cheaper than internet sellers by $200 bucks on each.

Plus he is willing to do 90 lay-a-ways on each, which gave me a few pay checks leeway to get it.  30% down so I can see how it's easier it is for him to order a low risk minimal cash on the shelf and move it out the door fast sale for less.

What drove my to his store was multiple highway billboards.  He also has a very active FB page that features specials and drawings on used guns.

There is a consumer POV.

Did Mr. 82nd ever get prosecuted his shenanigans?

100% NOT legal!

As a consumer, all I can say is the .223 AR15 market is beyond saturated for me and everyone I know who is AR interested.  

Of all my friends and associates who have considered getting one - they got one.  The market that shoots it once every 1-5 years, has one.  You're not going to sell them more.  

The market that shoots heavily, also is saturated, with multiple ARs.  

Very few people I know are in the market for yet another .223 AR.  The more heavy shooters I know, sometimes get interested in a "foreign exotic" after getting their .223 AR needs satisfied.  So they want something really cool, like an AUG, TAVOR, SCAR, or other non-common rifle.  I have absolutely zero interest in a piston AR.  The off-caliber AR's that are .223 sized also have limited appeal.  I have zero interest in .300 blackout.  6.5 Grendle is mildly interesting, but don't know if I'll ever get one - I quite like .223.  If there is a legislative change that opens up suppressors and SBR's, I'll participate.  But as it stands, I have little interest F'ing with a bunch of paperwork - I have an AUG if I want SBR sized shooting.

So what's the growth market today?  In my case, I'm interested in the longer range precision world.  Traditionally that would be .308, and there are ample options to purchase a .308.  Most people only buy one .308 or so, shoot it a few times, and call that good.  They tend to be expensive and less pleasant to shoot.  In my own case, I have decided to leapfrog .308 entirely, and am interested in the 6.5 long casing family (e.g. 6.5 CM)  And that market is far from saturated - in my opinion it's undeserved right now.  It's rare to find an AR in 6.5 CM . What really got me excited, was the prospect of a Bullpup 6.5 CM capable of 400-1000 yard unregulated field-range distance with credible accuracy - which is what Desert Tech promised - and then failed to deliver.  I don't know if I'm representative of the market, but that's what got me excited for a time.  A 6.5 CM AR that's proven reliable and 1 MOA capable for a good price, would very much catch my eye as well.

I'm still purchasing things like reloading components - but your prices better deliver.  I purchase replacement AR barrels from time to time, as I burn out the old ones.  An occasional magazine here or there (Lancer's only for me now).  I'm in the market to pick up a couple cheap lowers just for the safe - but we're talking sub $40 out the door now, before I'll bother.  

Hunting isn't really my sport, but I like the concept, and hunting relating shooting supplies might be my interest in the medium future.  Night vision technology has my interest now, as do green lasers.

The Steyr M9 pistol is an intriguing little gun, I might want to pick one of those up - if it's really cheap (note the common theme here).  

To be honest, I very rarely purchase from a brick and mortar store.  In general the prices and inventory aren't quite aligned with my needs and interest.  And often I don't find the experience very pleasant.  Usually the staff is hard to get their attention, don't really know the topic very well, or I'm waiting in line behind some gang-banger that the store clerk is trying hard to balance being professional and wishing out of his store at the same time.  And then there's the annoyance of looking at sticker prices that I know I can beat, on pretty much everything in the store.

If I were running a small brick and mortar gun-store right now, what would I do?   I guess I'd advertise transfer services, and charge a competitive price.  I'd do my best to make that transaction as pleasant and smooth as possible, with a comfortable interaction room and free soda's for customers while we go through the paperwork and such which always seems to take longer than it should.  I'd stock a handful of budget AR15's, some hunting items, Glocks and other handguns, and various CHL items.  I'd make the experience as Easy-Button as I could, by having easy signs or other guidance to customers on how to get their CHL class, who/when/where - and make it seem as approachable and easy as possible.  If at all possible, I'd build a range in the back, and feed that with gun sales, rentals, and ammo.  Failing that, affiliate with a range.

For ammo, I'd stock the basics, but also price aggressive for the bulk purchaser.  I'd sell full cans of ammo, at near on-line prices, if I could.  Or sell boxes directly out of the can, for nearly the same price.  I'd also sell reloading equipment, and lowest cost possible components.  I'd consider a "powder-club", where I'd run with a low inventory of powder, and then put in a group order for customers once a month, to buy down shipping and hazmat fee's for the customers, and combine that with my store discount, to give  them good pricing.  Maybe that won't work, but a thought.

I'd also consider basic gunsmithing services.  Of the master gunsmiths I know (which aren't many), they always have a huge backlog of work.

And finally, perhaps a couple of shooting coordination clubs.  Once a month events for hunters (an organized dove hunt or whatever), and a once a month ladies night, and a once a month action shooting event.  

What I WOULDN'T do, is bank on AR15 sales at 40% margin anymore - because that's done.

No, he moved onto another company and is doing more screwed up things. I would suggest taking a peek at Dakota Tactical's social media feeds for some interesting reading.

The market is certainly there, but it's obviously a smaller market. Targeting that market not only allows you to provide a more tailored experience for the end user(often referred to with Lifestyle Marketing), but usually allows for more room and more money to be made.

We're in the Instagram Era, where people have no qualms investing heavy amounts of money into their hobbies(just take a look at the custom Glock market). Most people don't want a bunch of "Mid-level" products, they want one really good product they can feel good showing off. The last shop I was at didn't carry an AR under $1300 for a long time(and we were doing insanely well), and we did extremely well for ourselves. Best selling rifle was probably the SR-15 Mod 2(typically packaged with an optic like the Vortex 1-6 or an Aimpoint T2), but we moved a ton of $1500-2000 Rifles with no issues. Of course this also takes staff that can articulate the differences and benefits between models and manufactures, but you would be surprised what the average walk-in guy is willing to spend for a quality product, even if he doesn't shoot at all or it's his first rifle.

Was this during the Obama era?

If by Obama Era you're specifically referring to the time when ARs were scarce, no.

Predominately ~2015 is what I'm thinking of.  They are still doing decent numbers from what I understand. Plus, in my experience, people who are panic buying aren't going for things like Radian(unless they absolutely have to).

Even if you can explain away AR sales as political climate, it still leaves the $2000+ glock market unexplained, of which I've sold more than my fair share.