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3/24/2012 6:58:57 PM EDT
Hi fellas, I was in a pawn shop today looking at an 1893 Turkish Mauser.
The owner of the shop was a nice enough guy and while we were shit shooting, told me that all metallic cartridge firearms, regardless of age, are now legal firearms and must be put in his bound book.

Have I been hiding under a rock? When did this change?
3/24/2012 10:52:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Nope.  Didn't change.  Pull the BATFE reg.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/collectors.html#antique-definition

Gig 'em,

backbencher
3/24/2012 11:17:37 PM EDT
[#2]
That's what I thought, I'm wondering if I should point it out to him or just let it lie. Is it against the rules to log an antique firearm as it falls outside the bounds of the 68 gca and is therefore NOT the business of the ATF?

Edit: spelling
3/24/2012 11:20:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Scary how many people sell guns for a living, but don't know squat about the laws
3/25/2012 8:51:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
That's what I thought, I'm wondering if I should point it out to him or just let it lie. Is it against the rules to log an antique firearm as it falls outside the bounds of the 68 gca and is therefore NOT the business of the ATF?

Edit: spelling


No. In fact if you read ATF Ruling 2008-2 (deals with computerized log books) it states: Printouts may include antique firearms, but cannot include other merchandise. However, antique firearms must be identified as “ANT” in the “firearm type” column.
3/25/2012 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#5]



Quoted:


Scary how many people sell guns for a living, but don't know squat about the laws


I kind of agree with you, however the sheer number of laws and regulations is overwhelming. I think a lot of dealers just decide to err on the side of caution and make their own policies. Instead of researching the production dates it might be easier for the dealer in question to say, "hell with it, all cartridge guns I sell will have 4473s......"



 
3/28/2012 11:34:55 AM EDT
[#6]
People are still getting bad info on this topic from ATF. Recently I heard of a dealer who said that he called ATF on this, and they said that if a certain firearm used ammunition that was currently availble, regardless of when the firearm was made, then it was not an antique. This simply isn't true, and dealers need to look this information up on their own and challenge some this bad information.
4/2/2012 10:19:44 AM EDT
[#7]
(16) The term "antique firearm"
means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm
with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar type of ignition
system) manufactured in or before
1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described
in subparagraph (A) if such
replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned
for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition which
is no longer manufactured in the
United States and which is not
readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle
loading shotgun, or muzzle loading
pistol, which is designed to use
black powder, or a black powder
substitute, and which cannot use
fixed ammunition. For purposes of
this subparagraph, the term "antique
firearm" shall not include any weapon
which incorporates a firearm frame or
receiver, any firearm which is converted
into a muzzle loading weapon,
or any muzzle loading weapon which
can be readily converted to fire fixed
ammunition by replacing the barrel,
bolt, breechblock, or any combination
thereof.


Anything 1898 or earlier falls under definition (A) and is exempt regardless of cartridge availability.

Ammo type becomes important for firearms which are exempt under definition (B) as replicas of pre-1899 firearms.  They are exempt only if they cannot use cartridge ammo, or so long as their cartridge ammo is not available "in the channels of commerce"

Consider four guns - all nearly identical:

1) Mauser 1898 chambered in 8x57 manufactured on 12/31/1898 - antique firearm under (A)
2) Mauser 1898 chambered in 8x57 manufactured on 1/1/1899 - modern firearm - not under (A), fails ammo exception under (B)(i) and (B)(ii)
3) Mauser 1898 replica chambered in 8x57, manufactured yesterday - modern firearm - not under (A), fails ammo exception under (B)(i) and (B)(ii)
4) Mauser 1898 replica chambered in some oddball caliber no longer made, manufactured yesterday - antique firearm under (B)(ii) until and unless someone starts making the oddball caliber again commercially. However, the owner could privately make the oddball ammo for his own use.

1) and 2) are both C&R qualified, too, however.
4/2/2012 4:31:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
1) Mauser 1898 chambered in 8x57 manufactured on 12/31/1898 - antique firearm under (A)


Sigh - my chimera.  Even if I ever find one, I doubt I can afford it.  But there's an 1895 Mosin under the bed from Tulsa on Saturday!

Gig 'em,

backbencher
4/2/2012 6:49:17 PM EDT
[#9]
The bottom line is why end up fighting for your FFL in court over a $200 rifle.  Put the damn thing in your A&D book, do a 4473 and be done.
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