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Posted: 1/20/2012 2:50:39 PM EDT
| What is the best why to start this process? I have seen the "FFL Kits" and have looked around on the ATF site. |
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make sure you are allowed to run this type of business out of your home if you plan on doing it this way.
print the form from the ATF site get finger print cards send to you from the ATF site have pictures taken for the application inform Sheriff or CLEO in your area that you are planning on doing this complete form and send off this is a very easy and simple process. I did it all my self with out any help from this "KIT" there is no need for this it really is very easy you just have to follow the instructions on the form and that is it. good luck |
| The first thing you need to do is get your Zoning approved for your home. That is the toughest obsticale. I also recommend get a free EIN from the IRS to operate on, either as a Sole prop or File for LLC, it shows the ATF your serious about a business, not just want a discount for you and your buddies. Once you get Zoning approved you will want a TAX permit (most cities require this before you get zoned) Start reading all the info this forum and USE the ATF site! |
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I live in the country so i don't think zoning will be a big deal, but who knows. Tell me what is a EIN? Is going with an LLC the best? Is the TAX permit hard to get? This is stuff I want to do before I apply for the FFL? Before you get your FFL, you need to research what is required to run a business. Based on your questions you are a long way from being ready. The following is what I posted in another forum when asked about starting a gun business: I wish you the best and hope you can be successful selling cheaper than the rest of us. You are going to find it tough to compete with the online dealers. Bud's for instance sells guns for about $20 more than my cost in many cases. Then you will have to charge sales tax when shipped to instate buyer. That adds about 10% to my prices in Springdale even if I price match those guys.
Rarely can I sell new guns for more than about 10% over cost, so you won't have much room to be profitable. By the time you factor overhead in to the calculation, it is very difficult to make money selling new guns. The only profit I usually see is on used guns, but even then it is a smaller margin than most retail stores operate on. Ammo will cost you nearly as much as the online retailers sell theirs for, and it is tough to stock several thousand dollars of various ammo to make a couple of dollars a box. The only way I stay afloat is with pawns, but I learned several expensive lessons in the beginning. You are going to find that most customers don't understand why you can't buy their barely used gun that they paid $550 a month ago for more than about $350, which you might be able to sell in a month or two for around $400-$450. |
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My zoning people says I can not have customers, its only for paper work and computer type stuff. then I will have to deliver the item instead of them coming to pick up. What do u think atf will say about that? Illegal - transfers must occur either at the licensed premises or at another approved venue such as a gun show, and the ATF will not issue an FFL just so you can sell at gun shows. |
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Quoted: My zoning people says I can not have customers, its only for paper work and computer type stuff. then I will have to deliver the item instead of them coming to pick up. What do u think atf will say about that? Go big. Become a wholesaler like RSR, everything moves common carrier, no customers can come will call. Done. |
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My zoning people says I can not have customers, its only for paper work and computer type stuff. then I will have to deliver the item instead of them coming to pick up. What do u think atf will say about that? Go big. Become a wholesaler like RSR, everything moves common carrier, no customers can come will call. Done. Can u clarify |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My zoning people says I can not have customers, its only for paper work and computer type stuff. then I will have to deliver the item instead of them coming to pick up. What do u think atf will say about that? Go big. Become a wholesaler like RSR, everything moves common carrier, no customers can come will call. Done. Can u clarify Wholesalers such as RSR do not sell [guns] to non-licensees. They buy direct from MFGS and re-sell to FFLs. Their is no will- call, even for FFLs. Thus their is no foot traffic to their door. |
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Can a detached garage be used to do yout transfers in? Would it have to have its own address? The other thing is my house is connected to the garge by a deck, will they look at it as a detached garage? What it boils down to is if your local zoning will allow it. If they say it's not a problem, then ATF will be fine with you conducting business in your garage. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last. I doubt your garage would have it's own address, you can't just make one up. Making up an address won't affect your zoning status anyway (or get you out of complying with zoning ordinances/regs). Your best bet is to call local zoning and explain EXACTLY what your intentions are, don't beat around the bush and make up some BS business model. ATF will verify with them. |
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The garge has a loft so I was thinking that would be better than having people in my house. Quoted:
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Can a detached garage be used to do yout transfers in? Would it have to have its own address? The other thing is my house is connected to the garge by a deck, will they look at it as a detached garage? What it boils down to is if your local zoning will allow it. If they say it's not a problem, then ATF will be fine with you conducting business in your garage. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last. I doubt your garage would have it's own address, you can't just make one up. Making up an address won't affect your zoning status anyway (or get you out of complying with zoning ordinances/regs). Your best bet is to call local zoning and explain EXACTLY what your intentions are, don't beat around the bush and make up some BS business model. ATF will verify with them. |
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The garge has a loft so I was thinking that would be better than having people in my house. Quoted:
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Can a detached garage be used to do yout transfers in? Would it have to have its own address? The other thing is my house is connected to the garge by a deck, will they look at it as a detached garage? What it boils down to is if your local zoning will allow it. If they say it's not a problem, then ATF will be fine with you conducting business in your garage. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last. I doubt your garage would have it's own address, you can't just make one up. Making up an address won't affect your zoning status anyway (or get you out of complying with zoning ordinances/regs). Your best bet is to call local zoning and explain EXACTLY what your intentions are, don't beat around the bush and make up some BS business model. ATF will verify with them. If that works best for your business then go for it, but you still should check with zoning otherwise you're wasting your time. |
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It's really pretty simple. You're either attempting to run a business or you're not. If you're running a business, you need a location that people can come to . . . or you have to come up with a business model that doesn't include walk-in customers (something like Summit Gun Brokers).
If all you want to do is have a license so you can buy guns "cheap" and avoid transfer fees, the BATFE is going to see right through that and probably won't issue a license. If you really do want to operate a business, then you've got a lot bigger questions ahead of you than how to submit your application to the BATFE. That's going to prove to be one of the simpler tasks you will face. Not to put it bluntly, but if you can't figure that part out, you don't stand a chance with the bigger issues. So, are you really wanting to run a business? . . . A gun business? . . . . What do you hope to accomplish? Do you really expect to make a living off of this business or does this just seem like a fun hobby? Seriously, have you thought that far? What do you envision doing? Do you plan to build an inventory of guns? Ammo? Accessories? (Hope you have a boatload of money.) What will you offer customers that the competition doesn't offer? Have you investigated the wholesale cost of the items you intend to carry? Have you thought about how much merchandise you'll have to move to cover your costs? Do you have an idea what your costs are going to be? Have you written a business plan? ETA: Based on this response, I gather you're thinking of going into the transfer business . . .. Quoted:
Can a detached garage be used to do yout transfers in? Would it have to have its own address? The other thing is my house is connected to the garge by a deck, will they look at it as a detached garage? Really? Is that the extent of it? If so, what do you offer that the existing gun shops don't offer? Cheaper transfers? Well, assuming for a moment that the other shops want to do transfers, why couldn't they just cut their price and make you irrelevant? But really? Why would a guy go through the hassle of licensing, inspections, etc. just to transfer a few guns? Do you really enjoy paperwork that much? |
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My zoning people says I can not have customers, its only for paper work and computer type stuff. then I will have to deliver the item instead of them coming to pick up. What do u think atf will say about that? Go big. Become a wholesaler like RSR, everything moves common carrier, no customers can come will call. Done. Should only take a few million to get started. |
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I have got the zoning ok and the ok to run it from the garge. I'm putting a office in the loft of it. Yes people will be able to come to it. I'm doing this this with a friend of mine. We both have full time jobs, so we will be open a few hours a day each day of the week and full days on the weekend. So I would say it's like a 2nd job. We know that we will not get rich but we a going to try to make some money doing it. We are not doing it to get cheep prices on guns. This will be the first business I have tried to run so and I want to do it the right way, that's why I'm asking so many things. I dont like doing things half ass. Quoted:
It's really pretty simple. You're either attempting to run a business or you're not. If you're running a business, you need a location that people can come to . . . or you have to come up with a business model that doesn't include walk-in customers (something like Summit Gun Brokers). If all you want to do is have a license so you can buy guns "cheap" and avoid transfer fees, the BATFE is going to see right through that and probably won't issue a license. If you really do want to operate a business, then you've got a lot bigger questions ahead of you than how to submit your application to the BATFE. That's going to prove to be one of the simpler tasks you will face. Not to put it bluntly, but if you can't figure that part out, you don't stand a chance with the bigger issues. So, are you really wanting to run a business? . . . A gun business? . . . . What do you hope to accomplish? Do you really expect to make a living off of this business or does this just seem like a fun hobby? |
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You are correct, a plan is always good. Do you have you FFL? If so did you set up as a LLC or did you go a differant way? Quoted:
It sounds like it's time for you to write a business plan. It's likely that there's a lot of things you haven't thought about or considered. Writing a good business plan will force you to confront these issues. |
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You are correct, a plan is always good. Do you have you FFL? If so did you set up as a LLC or did you go a differant way? Quoted:
It sounds like it's time for you to write a business plan. It's likely that there's a lot of things you haven't thought about or considered. Writing a good business plan will force you to confront these issues. My wife and I formed an LLC. The LLC owns the pawnshop I manage. The LLC/pawnshop has an FFL. The business plan is more than just a "plan." It is a thorough WRITTEN presentation of the business proposal/concept. It lays out a careful analysis of the market you will operate in, the level and nature of the competition, the background and business strengths/weaknesses of the principals, the path toward success (with challenges and obstacles clearly laid out) and, perhaps most important, realistic financial projections over at least a two (if not five) year horizon. You should prepare it as if you were taking it to a bank for financing. You do this even if you're going to self finance, because the process of thinking the business through down to the smallest detail will help you determine whether you've got any chance in hell of actually pulling the damn thing off. A good business plan is a total pain in the ass. Nobody likes doing them. But doing it is probably one of the best things you can do before trying to launch a business. http://www.sba.gov/category/navigation-structure/starting-managing-business/starting-business/writing-business-plan |
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I went with sole prop since I am operating in my home, has great TAX benefeits as well. If I happend to make some cash I will convert and file for LLC. Just go here http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=102767,00.html and file for your EIN, its fast freee, and cant download it it in PDF format. Then go to your states tax website and file for a TAX permit, I also recommend going to your bank and open a Small business checking account. Mine was free and just needed to open with $50 in it. Got a free check card etc... You can also take your TAX ID to your cellphone company, I use at&t and converted it to a business account. You get 6-10% off each month, plus a whole bunch of benefeits. Then I will write my cell phone bill off for the business. You can still write the account off for business but only the number published for the business if its under social. You will more than likely have to back your EIN up with your social because it wont have any credit yet.
I also recommend getting a DUNS #, when you file DO NOT BUY anything. They will try to sell yuou stuff, just take the free DUNS they say it takes 60 days to get, I got mine in a week! Here is a interesting article as well. http://mashable.com/2011/07/15/business-credit/ http://www.companiesinc.com/services/corporate-credit/build-credit-yourself4.asp Hope this helps.... |
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...I'm doing this this with a friend of mine... That lets out sole proprietor since there are two business owners, so you're looking at an LLC or corporation. I would very strongly suggest that both of you go to a local tax attorney and a contract attorney, discuss scenarios, and select a corporate structure based on your discussions. What works for us may not be best for you. |
| If your doing it with a friend than LLC is the way to go as Bubbles said, however... If your doing it at your house I would strongly suggest you have your friend apply for his own and run seperate entities. I have seen lots of friends become enemies over business deals. You can still partner your FFL's, you can also market under one name. Just my 2 cents |
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...I'm doing this this with a friend of mine... That lets out sole proprietor since there are two business owners, so you're looking at an LLC or corporation. I would very strongly suggest that both of you go to a local tax attorney and a contract attorney, discuss scenarios, and select a corporate structure based on your discussions. What works for us may not be best for you. Could also do a partnership. |
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...I'm doing this this with a friend of mine... That lets out sole proprietor since there are two business owners, so you're looking at an LLC or corporation. I would very strongly suggest that both of you go to a local tax attorney and a contract attorney, discuss scenarios, and select a corporate structure based on your discussions. What works for us may not be best for you. Well there went the profits for the next three years . . . |
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...I'm doing this this with a friend of mine... That lets out sole proprietor since there are two business owners, so you're looking at an LLC or corporation. I would very strongly suggest that both of you go to a local tax attorney and a contract attorney, discuss scenarios, and select a corporate structure based on your discussions. What works for us may not be best for you. Well there went the profits for the next three years . . . Cheaper to do it correctly from the beginning. |
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