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Posted: 4/9/2010 7:28:26 PM EDT
| I had a manufacturer send me a replacement gun to transfer for someone. It was sent in for repairs, and they ended up replacing it, not repairing it. The actual buyer has to pick it up and do the 4473, is this correct? Because it is a replacement gun, and not a repair? Am I thinking correct on this? |
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P08 is correct.
If the customer had sent the firearm directly to the manufacturer for repair or replacement, the manufacturer could send the repaired or replaced firearm directly back to the customer- no FFL, no 4473, no NICS. (per ATF. Your state law may differ). |
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I probably should have been more specific. I realize the 4473 has to be done, just wondering about question 11a on the 4473, which states it's ok for someone else to pickup a repaired firearm. My question being, would this be considered a repaired firearm? It's a replacement from the manufacturer that was originally sent in for repairs. I told the person he'd have to pick it up himself, but curious what others thought. |
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Quoted:
I probably should have been more specific. I realize the 4473 has to be done, just wondering about question 11a on the 4473, which states it's ok for someone else to pickup a repaired firearm. My question being, would this be considered a repaired firearm? It's a replacement from the manufacturer that was originally sent in for repairs. I told the person he'd have to pick it up himself, but curious what others thought. Customer brings you a firearm to be repaired, YOU (gunsmith/FFL) fix it, customer OR someone on his behalf may pick up the firearm without a 4473/NICS. If the customer brings you a firearm and you transfer it to another FFL for repair, the "repair rule" does not apply asYOU did not actually repair the firearm. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. Q: Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received. [27 CFR 478.124(a)] Q: May a gunsmith make immediate repairs at locations other than his or her place of business?Yes. Q: Is a licensed gunsmith’s return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. (See also question “A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law? Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?”) [18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)] |
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Quoted: Quoted: I probably should have been more specific. I realize the 4473 has to be done, just wondering about question 11a on the 4473, which states it's ok for someone else to pickup a repaired firearm. My question being, would this be considered a repaired firearm? It's a replacement from the manufacturer that was originally sent in for repairs. I told the person he'd have to pick it up himself, but curious what others thought. Customer brings you a firearm to be repaired, YOU (gunsmith/FFL) fix it, customer OR someone on his behalf may pick up the firearm without a 4473/NICS. If the customer brings you a firearm and you transfer it to another FFL for repair, the "repair rule" does not apply asYOU did not actually repair the firearm. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. Q: Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received. [27 CFR 478.124(a)] Q: May a gunsmith make immediate repairs at locations other than his or her place of business?Yes. Q: Is a licensed gunsmith’s return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. (See also question “A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law? Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?”) [18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)] Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.....and as I had thought. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I probably should have been more specific. I realize the 4473 has to be done, just wondering about question 11a on the 4473, which states it's ok for someone else to pickup a repaired firearm. My question being, would this be considered a repaired firearm? It's a replacement from the manufacturer that was originally sent in for repairs. I told the person he'd have to pick it up himself, but curious what others thought. Customer brings you a firearm to be repaired, YOU (gunsmith/FFL) fix it, customer OR someone on his behalf may pick up the firearm without a 4473/NICS. If the customer brings you a firearm and you transfer it to another FFL for repair, the "repair rule" does not apply asYOU did not actually repair the firearm. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. Q: Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received. [27 CFR 478.124(a)] Q: May a gunsmith make immediate repairs at locations other than his or her place of business?Yes. Q: Is a licensed gunsmith’s return of repaired or customized firearms to their owners subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. (See also question “A firearm is delivered to a licensee by an unlicensed individual for the purpose of repair. Is the return of the repaired firearm subject to the requirements of the Brady law? Would the transfer of a replacement firearm from the licensee to the owner of the damaged firearm be subject to the requirements of the Brady law?”) [18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)] Repair rule? None of the questions you linked to state that |
The answers provided so far have been wrong. There does not need to be a 4473 completed:
Neither the transfer of a repaired firearm nor the transfer of a replacement firearm would be subject to the requirements of the Brady law. Furthermore, the regulations provide that a Form 4473 is not required to cover these transactions. However, the licensee’s permanent acquisition and disposition records should reflect the return of the firearm or the transfer of a replacement firearm. There is no "repair rule" stating the orginal FFL is the only one who can fix it (and no 4473 be required upon return) If you take your gun into ABC Guns and ABC can't fix it, and he sends it out to XYZ or the original manufacturer and they fix it and it is sent back to ABC then the original person who brought it in is not subject to a 4473 or NICS check. Reference the sample bound book page that ATF provides, this scenario is discussed. |
| Just for the record, in this case I was never given the firearm to "repair". I was called directly from the manufacturer and asked to transfer the replacement firearm to the person. The person's secretary wanted to pick up the firearm, which is what caused me to look closer at question 11a on the 4473, which talks about not needing to answer that question if it was picked up for repair purposes by another person. |
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Quoted:
The answers provided so far have been wrong. There does not need to be a 4473 completed: There is no "repair rule" stating the orginal FFL is the only one who can fix it (and no 4473 be required upon return) If you take your gun into ABC Guns and ABC can't fix it, and he sends it out to XYZ or the original manufacturer and they fix it and it is sent back to ABC then the original person who brought it in is not subject to a 4473 or NICS check. Reference the sample bound book page that ATF provides, this scenario is discussed. But that is not the scenario the OP presented. Customer sent gun to manufacturer for repair and manufacturer sent firearm to the OP. If the manufacturer had returned the firearm directly to the customer no 4473, no NICS. But the manufacturer returned the firearm to another FFL. A 4473/NICS is required. |
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Quoted:
] Customer brings you a firearm to be repaired, YOU (gunsmith/FFL) fix it, customer OR someone on his behalf may pick up the firearm without a 4473/NICS. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. Q: Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received. [27 CFR 478.124(a)] I have to disagree about "OR someone on his behalf" not needing a 4473 and NICS. It is my understanding that the firearm may only be returned to the actual person who left the gun for repair, Say the husband left his 1911, and a few days later the wife wants to pick it up, she would have to do a 4473/NICS. If the husband were to pick it up then the 1911 is logged out under his name and nothing else is required. |
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Not required if it's being returned from the factory to it's original owner. However if a gun showed up at my place from S&W for example and say's "Give this to XXXX" who I don't personally know, I'd give it to him after doing NICS check. Cover MY butt is how I see it.
How do you know if the person your giving the gun to is a known felon? Family, friends, return customers I know relatively well I'd give it to. Joe Somebody off the street Jr. gets a background check. Cover YOUR butt. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The answers provided so far have been wrong. There does not need to be a 4473 completed: There is no "repair rule" stating the orginal FFL is the only one who can fix it (and no 4473 be required upon return) If you take your gun into ABC Guns and ABC can't fix it, and he sends it out to XYZ or the original manufacturer and they fix it and it is sent back to ABC then the original person who brought it in is not subject to a 4473 or NICS check. Reference the sample bound book page that ATF provides, this scenario is discussed. But that is not the scenario the OP presented. Customer sent gun to manufacturer for repair and manufacturer sent firearm to the OP. If the manufacturer had returned the firearm directly to the customer no 4473, no NICS. But the manufacturer returned the firearm to another FFL. A 4473/NICS is required. I must have skimmed his post, but if that is the scenario then yes a 4473/NICS must be done. I thought the customer brought the gun in to the OP to send to the manufacturer. |
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