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Posted: 7/2/2009 5:38:53 AM EDT
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I have a question about filling out an application as far as what address to list.
I live in town and am zoned residentially. I farm with my dad and he lives at the farm. Can I use his address for the FFL, because thats where I'm at most of time anyways? If we can get up and going good enough, we'll probably store firearms in a safe in his huose, or build a room in a shed and store them there. Does anyone have an extra FFL application packet? I requested mine via the ATF website, but keep reading stories on how long it takes to receive it. I would reimburse you for the packet and whatever it takes to ship it. If I can get my FFL approved, I'm planning on getting my class 3 license also. Mainly to help with transfers and sell suppressors. |
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Steps to getting a home-based Federal Firearms License (FFL):
1) If you want to work out of your home, check your local zoning ordinances and Homeowner Association CCR's, if any. If either document prohibits you from obtaining a business license at your residence, go no further. The ATF will not issue you an FFL. 2) Check with your homeowner's insurance to see how much it will go up if you run a firearm business out of your home. Hopefully you have a local agent who you've personally known and worked with for many years, as the flunkie on the toll-free call center phone will probably freak at your questions. You may find the increase in premium alone makes getting an FFL unviable. 3) Another question for yourself - are you comfortable filing federal and state tax returns every quarter, and sales & use tax returns every month (if your state has sales & use taxes)? If not, add CPA services to your list of expenses. 4) If you've gotten to this point, find an attorney to help you form a S Corp, C Corp, or LLC (most folks go with an LLC). This is not the time to go with a DIY document off the internet, especially if you plan on dealing in NFA toys. Besides, being in the firearms biz, you're going to need an attorney sooner or later anyway; might as well get to know one now. 5) Once your corporate entity is formed, obtain any necessary state and local business licenses to run a business. If you don't have these, the ATF will not issue an FFL. See #1 (and yes, they go to your county or city courthouse and check). 6) Call the ATF Distribution Center (301-583-4696) and ask for an application packet. It will include several copies of the application (no carbons unfortunately), fingerprint cards, and instructions. <–– 07 FFL / 02 SOT Note: If you get a Type 06 (ammunition manufacturer), 07 (manufacturer), or 10 (DD manufacturer) FFL you will also have to pay ITAR fees to the Department of State each year. In 2008 the fee went up from $500/year to $2250/year. This fee must be paid even if you never export an item you produce. |
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Quoted: I live in town and am zoned residentially. I farm with my dad and he lives at the farm. Can I use his address for the FFL, because thats where I'm at most of time anyways? If we can get up and going good enough, we'll probably store firearms in a safe in his huose, or build a room in a shed and store them there. Yes, if the farm is going to be the business location. If you are not the owner of the property, you will need to list your dad as the owner of the property and you as a leasee. Or you can put your dad on the FFL app and since he owns the property, you are GTG. |
| I came across a good deal on a commercial building space that a guy will lease me. It's not quite in shape to be using as a storefront yet but will be sometime this winter. I'm not interested in running an all out gunstore, more into transfers and ordering guns in and maybe taking a small inventory to some gunshows. So can I use this leased space to put a sign up, but not have to use it for a fulltime business location? Can I still do transactions and transfers, etc. at my residence instead of the business location? |
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Quoted:
I came across a good deal on a commercial building space that a guy will lease me. It's not quite in shape to be using as a storefront yet but will be sometime this winter. I'm not interested in running an all out gunstore, more into transfers and ordering guns in and maybe taking a small inventory to some gunshows. So can I use this leased space to put a sign up, but not have to use it for a fulltime business location? Can I still do transactions and transfers, etc. at my residence instead of the business location? http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#c3 |
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Quoted:
Steps to getting a home-based Federal Firearms License (FFL): 1) If you want to work out of your home, check your local zoning ordinances and Homeowner Association CCR's, if any. If either document prohibits you from obtaining a business license at your residence, go no further. The ATF will not issue you an FFL. 2) Check with your homeowner's insurance to see how much it will go up if you run a firearm business out of your home. Hopefully you have a local agent who you've personally known and worked with for many years, as the flunkie on the toll-free call center phone will probably freak at your questions. You may find the increase in premium alone makes getting an FFL unviable. 3) Another question for yourself - are you comfortable filing federal and state tax returns every quarter, and sales & use tax returns every month (if your state has sales & use taxes)? If not, add CPA services to your list of expenses. 4) If you've gotten to this point, find an attorney to help you form a S Corp, C Corp, or LLC (most folks go with an LLC). This is not the time to go with a DIY document off the internet, especially if you plan on dealing in NFA toys. Besides, being in the firearms biz, you're going to need an attorney sooner or later anyway; might as well get to know one now. 5) Once your corporate entity is formed, obtain any necessary state and local business licenses to run a business. If you don't have these, the ATF will not issue an FFL. See #1 (and yes, they go to your county or city courthouse and check). 6) Call the ATF Distribution Center (301-583-4696) and ask for an application packet. It will include several copies of the application (no carbons unfortunately), fingerprint cards, and instructions. <–– 07 FFL / 02 SOT Note: If you get a Type 06 (ammunition manufacturer), 07 (manufacturer), or 10 (DD manufacturer) FFL you will also have to pay ITAR fees to the Department of State each year. In 2008 the fee went up from $500/year to $2250/year. This fee must be paid even if you never export an item you produce. wow!!! I was thinking about getting my FFL, but with a fe structure like that...may have to reconsider! got a handy link that outlines those fee structures according to lic type? |
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Quoted:
wow!!! I was thinking about getting my FFL, but with a fe structure like that...may have to reconsider! got a handy link that outlines those fee structures according to lic type? Types of FFL's and fees The $2250 ITAR fee from the department of State only applies to manufacturers (Type 06, 07, or 10 FFL). The SOT if you want to deal in NFA toys is $500/year. |
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I got the application in the mail today.
I have to set up a meeting with the zoning appeal comitte, to see if they will allow me to run an FFL business from my residence. That should work out ok. It looks like I fill out all the forms and then send 2 to the ATF, 1 to my CLEO, keep 1 for myself, and affix a picture to each one. Then do I do the same with all 4 fingerprint cards? Do I have to have the business licenses set up before I get approved for the FFL? |
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Quoted:
Steps to getting a home-based Federal Firearms License (FFL): 1) If you want to work out of your home, check your local zoning ordinances and Homeowner Association CCR's, if any. If either document prohibits you from obtaining a business license at your residence, go no further. The ATF will not issue you an FFL. 2) Check with your homeowner's insurance to see how much it will go up if you run a firearm business out of your home. Hopefully you have a local agent who you've personally known and worked with for many years, as the flunkie on the toll-free call center phone will probably freak at your questions. You may find the increase in premium alone makes getting an FFL unviable. 3) Another question for yourself - are you comfortable filing federal and state tax returns every quarter, and sales & use tax returns every month (if your state has sales & use taxes)? If not, add CPA services to your list of expenses. 4) If you've gotten to this point, find an attorney to help you form a S Corp, C Corp, or LLC (most folks go with an LLC). This is not the time to go with a DIY document off the internet, especially if you plan on dealing in NFA toys. Besides, being in the firearms biz, you're going to need an attorney sooner or later anyway; might as well get to know one now. 5) Once your corporate entity is formed, obtain any necessary state and local business licenses to run a business. If you don't have these, the ATF will not issue an FFL. See #1 (and yes, they go to your county or city courthouse and check). 6) Call the ATF Distribution Center (301-583-4696) and ask for an application packet. It will include several copies of the application (no carbons unfortunately), fingerprint cards, and instructions. <–– 07 FFL / 02 SOT Note: If you get a Type 06 (ammunition manufacturer), 07 (manufacturer), or 10 (DD manufacturer) FFL you will also have to pay ITAR fees to the Department of State each year. In 2008 the fee went up from $500/year to $2250/year. This fee must be paid even if you never export an item you produce. regarding HOA: your HOA rules may say no businesses but you may still be able to do it. The ATF will contact the HOA and if the HOA says that they dont care or that they dont enforce the rule then the ATF may allow the FFL. the agents I talked to said they did. Regarding ITAR: you are suposed to pay this but I know a few 07s that dont, they didnt even know about it. I have talked to several ATF agents and they dont even know about it. You never know if they will start enforcing it though. |
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Quoted:
regarding HOA: your HOA rules may say no businesses but you may still be able to do it. The ATF will contact the HOA and if the HOA says that they dont care or that they dont enforce the rule then the ATF may allow the FFL. the agents I talked to said they did. My concern there is that someone will get put on the board in a few years and all of the sudden the rules start getting enforced (saw that many times in my old 'hood). I'd want something in writing from the HOA. |
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Well I got it all filled out and mailed 1 ATF copy and 2 fingerprint cards to the address listed on the sheet.
I gave the CLEO copy to the secretary at the SO because the Sheriff's gone for the rest of the week. I don't think there will be a problem there, because I'm a reserve deputy. Now I guess the wait begins. I tend to be impatient when it comes to these kind of things. Hopefully it won't take to long. |
| After they receive your packet and process it, they are going to send a agent out to interview you and go over rules, regulations, and ask you a bunch of questions. They are going to go to your licensing agent whether it is city or county to find out for himself if you can indeed have a firearms business out of your residence. They check up on everything. They will want to know what kind of security you have for the firearms, (security system, safe, etc.) As far as an attorney... I don't think you need to go there at this time. I been doing this for over three years now and haven't needed an attorney. I do have a good friend that can handle anything I need. As far as doing quarterly IRS payments... I don't. I just file at the end of the year with my personal income tax and add income from my firearms business too it. You are also going to have to have the business open to the public for a certain amount of time each week. I think it is 30 hours (I think). They WILL wawnt to know your business hours. If you are just going to get a license just to buy firearms at dealer prices, ATF will not approve it. When you go to renew your license, they are going to want to know how many firearms you have acquired and how many you have dispensed of. Good luck! |
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Quoted:
After they receive your packet and process it, they are going to send a agent out to interview you and go over rules, regulations, and ask you a bunch of questions. They are going to go to your licensing agent whether it is city or county to find out for himself if you can indeed have a firearms business out of your residence. They check up on everything. They will want to know what kind of security you have for the firearms, (security system, safe, etc.) As far as an attorney... I don't think you need to go there at this time. I been doing this for over three years now and haven't needed an attorney. I do have a good friend that can handle anything I need. As far as doing quarterly IRS payments... I don't. I just file at the end of the year with my personal income tax and add income from my firearms business too it. You are also going to have to have the business open to the public for a certain amount of time each week. I think it is 30 hours (I think). They WILL wawnt to know your business hours. If you are just going to get a license just to buy firearms at dealer prices, ATF will not approve it. When you go to renew your license, they are going to want to know how many firearms you have acquired and how many you have dispensed of. Good luck! Thanks for the heads up. I pretty much figured they would go thru everything with a fine tooth comb, and they should because it's their job and I personally don't want just anyone to be able to obtain a FFL. I have nothing to hide and have been honest about everything pertaining to the info they requested and will continue to be. I'm not looking to increase my personnal firearm collection by using my discounts thru my FFL. I'm more interested in making good honest deals on good products and I have some friends I would help on transfers and trade-ins for different firearms. I listed my business hours from M-F 5PM to 10PM and Sat 8AM to 10PM so that should be ok. It would actually be those hours and whatever other hours will work with customers. |
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... You are also going to have to have the business open to the public for a certain amount of time each week. I think it is 30 hours (I think)... Absolutely not true. There is not (and never has been) any requirement to have "open to the public" hours. This is a very common internet myth about FFL's. Obviously, since you are supposed to be "in business", ATF requires "business hours" which you state in your FFL application. These business hours do not mean you are open to the public those hours, but they ARE the hours that ATF could arrive to do a compliance inspection for example. You can change your business hours at any time. It is possible for an FFL to never meet with the public while in the course of business. The ability to buy and sell online with wholesalers, GunBroker, AuctionArms, etc make it just as much a business as the FFL with a brick and mortar store. |
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The ATF received my application Friday 7/31/09 and the payment is coming off my debit card today.
I guess that means I've at least got the ball rolling. Hopefully I can get approved, because the few people I've told about it have really experessed an intrest in doing business with me. |
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I am trying to find govt site info on this ITAR and the regs pertaining to it.
I intend on starting an ammo manufacturing and retail store. I will also have a dealer type lic.........I guess I will have to have a type 1 and type 6? Anyway, befor I apply, I need to know what I am getting into with the state dept. I am still doing cost analysis on expenses and sales. So, if I can't get around this huge yearly fee, it may not happen. |
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I received a phone call from an ATF inspector this morning.
He scheduled a meeting for Tuesday Sept. 1st. he has a 6 hour drive one way to come see me. All the way across the state of Kansas at opposite corners. He told me he would show me how to fill out the paperwork correctly and go over the requirements with me. He did ask about my zoning and if a business license was required. I told him who to contact for that information so he could confirm what I told him. I did ask about obtaining my Class 3 permit and he said he would bring the paperwork with him and show me how all that is supposed to be handled and filled out. He was very easy to talk to and very helpful. Hopefully it'll all work out. A couple more questions I have are. Does the ATF supply the bound book or do I have to purchase one? If I have to purchase one, where do I get it from? For those of you that keep an inventory on a computer. What program do you use and where do I purchase it? Thanks |
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Brownell's carries bound books. Hint - buy several at once.
We don't carry a lot of inventory (manufacturer, not a stocking dealer) so we don't track inventory on the computer. We do use Quickbooks for invoicing and accounting. |
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Brownell's carries bound books. Hint - buy several at once. We don't carry a lot of inventory (manufacturer, not a stocking dealer) so we don't track inventory on the computer. We do use Quickbooks for invoicing and accounting. Thanks for the help Bubbles. |
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Do it at the farm, a lot less shit to worry about. Just be sure that you know right up front that you will HAVE to receive all gun shipments and do ALL transfers there. Don't start having folks come over to your house to pick up guns because that is illegal. There is no requirement that firearms be shipped to your licensed premises. There is a place for "Mailing address" on the license, that could be ANYPLACE the dealer designates. |
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