Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 11:49:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Isn’t this the same article that’s been debunked several times over the last few years.
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 12:52:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 1:21:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NvrBrdWes:

View Quote


Seems to be the case. Every time I think of getting something else reality kicks back in and I can't justify something different. He really made the perfect rifle
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 4:46:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Something like this gets brought up every few years then nothing happens
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 7:46:24 PM EDT
[#5]
The most recent drafts of Givati and Golani brigades, front line infantry units,  were issued M4's with Aimpoint Comp M5 red dots.  Not sure of the reasoning, but none of the SF units were ever issued the X95/Tavor, other than the Naval commandos who have the X95 9mm SD in they're inventory.  Interestingly looks like they've started using Sig Spear LT 11.5 as they're main gun.
Link Posted: 3/21/2024 11:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnnyLoco] [#6]
If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?

Link Posted: 3/22/2024 12:29:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bluemax_1] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By November5:

Inability to switch shoulders on the fly too.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By November5:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Tomac:
I wonder what the urban use shortcoming was.

I would say too bulky/heavy and slower to reload in CQB. Just my guess. Gas in the face is not ideal either.

Inability to switch shoulders on the fly too.

All those are training related. I don’t really get it. I love my SAR, and it’s the HD firearm of choice BECAUSE it’s compact, and great in tight quarters.

Is it heavier than an AR? Yes, but the weight is rearward balanced, so it doesn’t feel like it. That also means it has low swing inertia (i.e. target transitions are very fast).

That rearward balance also means that it still sits in the shoulder pocket while shouldering it 1-handed, with a DBAL and light up front, and a T2. I can keep it shouldered (and yes, aim and fire accurately) 1-handed, while using the other hand to open doors or grab things (or kids).

Mag changes are just as fast as with my ARs. Sure, it took lots of repetitions for developing the muscle memory, but I did that with ARs, too.

As for gas to face, I got one of the sealing plates available, and it hasn’t been a problem.

There’s a potential issue with ease of switching shoulders, if it’s not setup properly, and the user hasn’t trained, but the Tavor works better with a more heads up shooting position vs folks used to NTCH with an AR.

With a more upright head position (ideally, with a taller mount that has the advantage of working with NVGs), I placed the T2 further rearward to help instinctively remind me. This allows me to switch to weak side, and keep my mouth behind the brass deflector. As long as I’m not taking a deep breath while firing shots weak side, it’s not a problem switching back and forth.

A downside, is that the piston design already results in the rail at greater HoB (Height over Bore). This means that a tall mount makes the POA vs POI offset even greater at close ranges. Again, something I trained around. Zeroed at 75yds, trajectory winds up pretty close to the AR 50:200yd zero, but up close out to 20yds, I aim ~3-4” high.

Didn’t go the SBR route so I didn’t have to mess with NFA crap, but an 8” 300BLK with a can would be pretty damned sweet.
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 12:46:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Israel has been buying M16 carbine variants with US foreign aid since the 1980s.

That's why the Galil and Tavor were never fully adopted and you see so many IDF armed with M16 carbines / M4s.
View Quote
I've seen both run hard, close to the ground, against barriers: Moving fast, and working in close quarters the Tavor is deeply inferior to an M4.
Stated from another angle: anything Tavor can do, the M4 can do better, longer, and with fewer malfunction(s).
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 1:47:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Positronic:
I've seen both run hard, close to the ground, against barriers: Moving fast, and working in close quarters the Tavor is deeply inferior to an M4.
Stated from another angle: anything Tavor can do, the M4 can do better, longer, and with fewer malfunction(s).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Positronic:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Israel has been buying M16 carbine variants with US foreign aid since the 1980s.

That's why the Galil and Tavor were never fully adopted and you see so many IDF armed with M16 carbines / M4s.
I've seen both run hard, close to the ground, against barriers: Moving fast, and working in close quarters the Tavor is deeply inferior to an M4.
Stated from another angle: anything Tavor can do, the M4 can do better, longer, and with fewer malfunction(s).

Link Posted: 3/22/2024 1:57:29 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bluemax_1:

All those are training related. I don’t really get it.
View Quote


Training related issues are still issues. Does not matter if you know the solution, the feasibility of reliably solving that is the issue.

When you have a conscript army, training is a massive issue.
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 1:17:13 PM EDT
[#11]
The most recent drafts of Givati and Golani brigades, front line infantry units,  were issued M4's with Aimpoint Comp M5 red dots.  Not sure of the reasoning, but none of the SF units were ever issued the X95/Tavor, other than the Naval commandos who have the X95 9mm SD in they're inventory.  Interestingly looks like they've started using Sig Spear LT 11.5 as they're main gun.
View Quote


Got a link?

Link Posted: 3/22/2024 8:37:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:


Yes, it appears to be.

Sven
Manticore Arms
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:
Originally Posted By FullAssault:
Isn’t this the same article that’s been debunked several times over the last few years.


Yes, it appears to be.

Sven
Manticore Arms


I figured as much.
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 9:12:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By texasyid:


Got a link?

View Quote


No link, just from the various social media feeds, specifically IG, as well as combat footage from Gaza.
Link Posted: 3/23/2024 3:37:24 PM EDT
[#14]
M4A1 uber allis!  Everyone knows that when the going gets tough, the tough get the M4A1!



18Z50......M4 user back when it was called the XM-177E2!


Link Posted: 3/23/2024 10:55:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 18B30:
M4A1 uber allis!  Everyone knows that when the going gets tough, the tough get the M4A1!



18Z50......M4 user back when it was called the XM-177E2!


View Quote

.....except for when they grab about a billion AKs.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 5:23:52 PM EDT
[#16]
I’ve never killed anyone with a AK, but I have collected numerous AK’s from lesser warriors killed by M4’s!


18Z50…..
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 6:11:44 PM EDT
[#17]
I was in Israel last year, still tons of AR platform rifles. Including the Border Police units in Jerusalem. They had a full monolithic rail set up. Couldn’t figure out if it was a Geiselle or Zion. However, plenty of the new versions of the x95’s. With the sbr top rail and the sbr handguard like the U.S. commercial picantinny rail one. But it is slightly modified. And with the new 15” barrel.
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top