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Posted: 2/9/2024 12:46:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: The stock Hellion/VHS2 trigger is pretty bad. It's extremely long and then you have 8 or so pounds to get it to break the shot, at least on mine. To me it is a prototypical bullpup trigger. It is usable. I'm able to hold 2 MOA at 300 w/ it easily. It is definitely no where near as good as a "nice" milspec AR trigger, much less a Geissele X95 trigger, that's for sure. Hopefully, as these things become more popular, someone creates a better trigger for it. That and a new rail are all that's really needed now IMHO. And I agree w/ you, using a cantilever mount on a rifle that doesn't need it and then bitching about height-over-bore seems disingenuous to me. Those guys know that you can use regular scope rings to lower it some. However, the HoB is very high, even w/ proper rings. I believe it is higher than a red dot mounted to a carry handle on an AR, but I haven't measure it myself. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So is the trigger really that bad? And in the above video seems like they are just running the wrong height optic which lead to some of there complaint's. The stock Hellion/VHS2 trigger is pretty bad. It's extremely long and then you have 8 or so pounds to get it to break the shot, at least on mine. To me it is a prototypical bullpup trigger. It is usable. I'm able to hold 2 MOA at 300 w/ it easily. It is definitely no where near as good as a "nice" milspec AR trigger, much less a Geissele X95 trigger, that's for sure. Hopefully, as these things become more popular, someone creates a better trigger for it. That and a new rail are all that's really needed now IMHO. And I agree w/ you, using a cantilever mount on a rifle that doesn't need it and then bitching about height-over-bore seems disingenuous to me. Those guys know that you can use regular scope rings to lower it some. However, the HoB is very high, even w/ proper rings. I believe it is higher than a red dot mounted to a carry handle on an AR, but I haven't measure it myself. We have ppl in the gun industry who only know flat top ARs, so that's hilarious. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 1:05:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Odinforever2000]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So is the trigger really that bad? And in the above video seems like they are just running the wrong height optic which lead to some of there complaint's. I personally hate it..It is the worst trigger of all the bullpups I own..multistage..yes..mine is also 8lbs As for optic height..there aren't any 1.1height 34mm cantilever mounts l..which is why end up running 30mm tubed lpvos on my Hellion. Most mounts are 1.5" high..which ok on everything else (mostly) but the Hellion.. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 2:59:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Findsman]
[#3]
I don’t get the hate for the trigger personally. If you compare everything to a Geissele, maybe, but you’ll never enjoy anything else ever.
Feels kinda like a spongy Glock trigger to me. I can feel a wall and a break, so it’s a good enough combat trigger. I’d rate it better than the FS2000, better and worse than an AUG. Maybe because I learned on crappy mil-spec AR triggers, then moved onto Century’s horrific 922r AK triggers, and had my first bullpup experience with the FS2000 I’m a lot more forgiving with what constitutes a “good” trigger. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 4:30:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: I don’t get the hate for the trigger personally. If you compare everything to a Geissele, maybe, but you’ll never enjoy anything else ever. Feels kinda like a spongy Glock trigger to me. I can feel a wall and a break, so it’s a good enough combat trigger. I’d rate it better than the FS2000, better and worse than an AUG. Maybe because I learned on crappy mil-spec AR triggers, then moved onto Century’s horrific 922r AK triggers, and had my first bullpup experience with the FS2000 I’m a lot more forgiving with what constitutes a “good” trigger. I feel the same, sometimes it’s seems like if it’s not a match grade trigger, it’s garbage Guys need to feel military ‘grade’ triggers and you’ll understand why this one is actually not that bad at all |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 5:12:44 PM EDT
[#5]
The trigger's not good compared to a run of the mill milspec ar trigger but it doesn't really seem to hold many folks back from shooting great groups with it.
It's been the #1 item on my aftermarket upgrade wishlist since I brought my hellion home. However, despite not having an upgrade for it, I still love shooting it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 3:55:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#6]
For anyone so inclined, the Grey Ghost Gear Apparition pack is big enough to full enclose the VHS2 w/ a Manticore Arms buttpad installed, a Holosun AEMS on low mount, and a 20 round mag inserted. Makes a handy little travel/truck gun, if you're into that sort of thing:
   
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Posted: 2/11/2024 12:55:35 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm finally going to join the club. Sold my AUG and am getting a 20" Hellion to replace it.
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USA
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Posted: 2/12/2024 10:36:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: I don’t get the hate for the trigger personally. If you compare everything to a Geissele, maybe, but you’ll never enjoy anything else ever. Feels kinda like a spongy Glock trigger to me. I can feel a wall and a break, so it’s a good enough combat trigger. I’d rate it better than the FS2000, better and worse than an AUG. Maybe because I learned on crappy mil-spec AR triggers, then moved onto Century’s horrific 922r AK triggers, and had my first bullpup experience with the FS2000 I’m a lot more forgiving with what constitutes a “good” trigger.  Attached File |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2024 10:53:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Odinforever2000]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: I feel the same, sometimes it’s seems like if it’s not a match grade trigger, it’s garbage Guys need to feel military ‘grade’ triggers and you’ll understand why this one is actually not that bad at all What about those guy who have felt "military grade triggers" and still say its bad? Ive got maybe..half the bullpups on the American market..and I hate the Hellion trigger..The Aug M3A1 seems better in comparison. Tho..I will say the Hellion trigger is better than the Muzzlelite Bullpup kit I once had..So..theres that. Comparing the Hellion to other non-bullpup triggers...well.. Ive also had century imported AK triggers (The 556 Norinco trigger suprised me and Battle rifle triggers (HK91 is heavy). The Bren 805 trigger is shockingly good..and the 806 is better. |
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Posted: 2/12/2024 7:17:13 PM EDT
[#10]
The problem with the Hellion is it has a ridiculously long take up, so bad that I genuinely thought something was broken on our in house Hellion when I first went to shoot it.
The travel is somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" of light nothingness before you feel anything, which has to do with how they did a "Glock dingus" safety in the trigger. I actually suspect the VHS-2 is set up for a progressive trigger in full auto (you switch to full auto and like the AUG you get a semi shot if you pull the trigger partway, and full auto if you pull full back) and the long takeup is an artifact of the conversion to a semi only setup in the trigger group. Sven Manticore Arms |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2024 10:17:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: The problem with the Hellion is it has a ridiculously long take up, so bad that I genuinely thought something was broken on our in house Hellion when I first went to shoot it. The travel is somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" of light nothingness before you feel anything, which has to do with how they did a "Glock dingus" safety in the trigger. I actually suspect the VHS-2 is set up for a progressive trigger in full auto (you switch to full auto and like the AUG you get a semi shot if you pull the trigger partway, and full auto if you pull full back) and the long takeup is an artifact of the conversion to a semi only setup in the trigger group. Sven Manticore Arms That's exactly my problem with it. The actual break isn't terrible, but that long pull of nothingness is what gets me. Plus, it essentially makes the reach to the trigger significantly shorter, which in my experience made it so that my long fingers were just so oversized for the trigger that I absolutely needed a grip with a large beaver tail backstrap in order to make up for it. I had originally planned on using a grip without a back strap, but the trigger squashed that. Hopefully when an aftermarket trigger comes out, it reduces that slop. |
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Posted: 2/12/2024 11:26:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: That's exactly my problem with it. The actual break isn't terrible, but that long pull of nothingness is what gets me. Plus, it essentially makes the reach to the trigger significantly shorter, which in my experience made it so that my long fingers were just so oversized for the trigger that I absolutely needed a grip with a large beaver tail backstrap in order to make up for it. I had originally planned on using a grip without a back strap, but the trigger squashed that. Hopefully when an aftermarket trigger comes out, it reduces that slop. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: The problem with the Hellion is it has a ridiculously long take up, so bad that I genuinely thought something was broken on our in house Hellion when I first went to shoot it. The travel is somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" of light nothingness before you feel anything, which has to do with how they did a "Glock dingus" safety in the trigger. I actually suspect the VHS-2 is set up for a progressive trigger in full auto (you switch to full auto and like the AUG you get a semi shot if you pull the trigger partway, and full auto if you pull full back) and the long takeup is an artifact of the conversion to a semi only setup in the trigger group. Sven Manticore Arms That's exactly my problem with it. The actual break isn't terrible, but that long pull of nothingness is what gets me. Plus, it essentially makes the reach to the trigger significantly shorter, which in my experience made it so that my long fingers were just so oversized for the trigger that I absolutely needed a grip with a large beaver tail backstrap in order to make up for it. I had originally planned on using a grip without a back strap, but the trigger squashed that. Hopefully when an aftermarket trigger comes out, it reduces that slop. It's my main gripe with the trigger, as well. I don't find that it gets in my way in actual use, but it does annoy me. I haven't taken a close look at the whole trigger mechanism, but I wonder if a properly placed ball point set screw is all it would take to get rid of that useless slack. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 7:36:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: It's my main gripe with the trigger, as well. I don't find that it gets in my way in actual use, but it does annoy me. I haven't taken a close look at the whole trigger mechanism, but I wonder if a properly placed ball point set screw is all it would take to get rid of that useless slack. I'm okay with the first stage of the trigger having slack, that's not a problem to me, but the point of break is so far back that it makes the trigger reach too short. My preference would be to push the second stage of the trigger forwards instead of removing the first stage of the trigger entirely. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 11:32:57 AM EDT
[#14]
How is the rifle shooting off handed? Do you eat brass or is it ejected pretty well forward?
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Posted: 2/18/2024 7:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Chris_1522]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hodgescl: How is the rifle shooting off handed? Do you eat brass or is it ejected pretty well forward? It whizzes them right past your face. I haven't taken one to the face yet, but they're damn close lol. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 1:25:46 AM EDT
[#16]
I would say it depends upon how you hold it. First time I shot one it was right-hand ejection, I thought I had it clear of my face but got tagged a couple of times on the chin. As a point of reference that is with the butt stock fully extended. FYI, the cases leave a nice half-moon mark. I haven't tried shooting mine right-handed since changing it over. I can try getting one of my sons to give it a shot next time we hit the range and see how they do. They love it when I use them as guinea pigs!
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Posted: 2/21/2024 8:42:03 AM EDT
[#17]
My first mod.
 
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Posted: 2/24/2024 12:21:37 AM EDT
[#18]
@Manticore_Arms
Would you happen to have an ETA for Hellion curved buttpads? |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 9:47:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: @Manticore_Arms Would you happen to have an ETA for Hellion curved buttpads? I am out of town right now but 45-60 days at a rough guess. They are being made right now, just have a lot of parts in them. Sven Manticore Arms |
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USA
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Posted: 2/24/2024 1:06:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Those ass clowns in that video are beyond obnoxious.
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Posted: 2/24/2024 1:44:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Anyone have any tips for removing the factory muzzle device? I’m about to attempt it and I keep reading it can be quite difficult.
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Posted: 2/24/2024 1:45:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigdave73: Those ass clowns in that video are beyond obnoxious. To what video are you referring? |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 2:11:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: I am out of town right now but 45-60 days at a rough guess. They are being made right now, just have a lot of parts in them. Sven Manticore Arms Thank you, Sven. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/24/2024 5:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigdave73]
[#24]
Paulie771
Page 18 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1j5-6CD9y8 |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 5:52:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigdave73: Paulie771 Page 18 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1j5-6CD9y8 I see. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2024 7:06:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Anyone have any tips for removing the factory muzzle device? I’m about to attempt it and I keep reading it can be quite difficult. I just used a crescent wrench on the gas block, and then torqued on the flash hider opposite that. It was actually quite easy that way. |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 1:49:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: I just used a crescent wrench on the gas block, and then torqued on the flash hider opposite that. It was actually quite easy that way. @Scrapple Was there any threadlocker on it or were the threads bare? Going to order a 20" here shortly probably, and want to replace the muzzle device with a Dead Air. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2024 4:59:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zeebz: @Scrapple Was there any threadlocker on it or were the threads bare? Going to order a 20" here shortly probably, and want to replace the muzzle device with a Dead Air. I think bare, I don't remember it being an issue. |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 9:18:14 PM EDT
[#29]
I’ve popped off two so far, no thread locker that I’ve seen. Just extremely torqued on from Springfield. I had the gas block secured in a vice and had to use an extension bar for extra leverage when loosening.
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Posted: 2/25/2024 9:24:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: I’ve popped off two so far, no thread locker that I’ve seen. Just extremely torqued on from Springfield. I had the gas block secured in a vice and had to use an extension bar for extra leverage when loosening. This is what I had to do as well. A couple of pieces of leather in the jaws and a little patience and I was able to pop it off w/ a Magpul wrench with relatively little cursing. No thread lock, just torqued like a son of a bitch. |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 6:36:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks guys. I just have a small adjustable wrench that I usually use on muzzle devices. Might need to get something with more grip area on it.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:37:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Are there any red dot / magnifier combos that offer lower ⅓ cowitness with the VHS-2 iron sights?
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2024 12:50:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Are there any red dot / magnifier combos that offer lower ⅓ cowitness with the VHS-2 iron sights? Yes. Mine has a Sig Romeo 4T in the low mount plus small spacer, and then the Arisaka low magnifier mount, and that gives lower 1/3. I posted pics of it upthread a bit. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2024 7:48:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRat: Yes. Mine has a Sig Romeo 4T in the low mount plus small spacer, and then the Arisaka low magnifier mount, and that gives lower 1/3. I posted pics of it upthread a bit. Ok I did see that but it looked more like an absolute from the picture. Can you post pictures looking through the optic as well?. Thanks! |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:53:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Ok I did see that but it looked more like an absolute from the picture. Can you post pictures looking through the optic as well?. Thanks! I tried but my phone camera wouldn't focus on it even remotely well, sorry! It's somewhere between lower 1/3 and absolute, but since both front and rear fold down it's fine for my purposes. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2024 7:57:37 PM EDT
[#36]
First company that makes a Hellion drop in trigger replacement kit a la the super sabra is gonna make some good coin
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Posted: 2/28/2024 8:49:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: First company that makes a Hellion drop in trigger replacement kit a la the super sabra is gonna make some good coin Same for an aluminum rail. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/2/2024 1:14:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ProbableColtAddict]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Same for an aluminum rail. ?? It already has an aluminum rail. |
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Posted: 3/2/2024 1:39:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ProbableColtAddict: ?? It already has an aluminum rail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ProbableColtAddict: Originally Posted By Paulie771: Same for an aluminum rail. ?? It already has an aluminum rail. He is referring to an aluminum forend, not a top rail |
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Posted: 3/2/2024 7:52:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: He is referring to an aluminum forend, not a top rail Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By ProbableColtAddict: Originally Posted By Paulie771: Same for an aluminum rail. ?? It already has an aluminum rail. He is referring to an aluminum forend, not a top rail Yes, thanks. I meant an aluminum handguard. I was incorrectly using AR parlance. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2024 9:52:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Not sure why you'd want an aluminum handguard, but I wouldn't mind a bipod handguard from BlkLbl bipod. That'd be swell
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Posted: 3/2/2024 9:56:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Not sure why you'd want an aluminum handguard, but I wouldn't mind a bipod handguard from BlkLbl bipod. That'd be swell Equally unsure why you’d want something like that, but hey, different strokes, amirite? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2024 11:14:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Equally unsure why you’d want something like that, but hey, different strokes, amirite? Haha exactly! The beauty of rifles. |
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VT, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2024 9:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BSJ]
[#44]
Forgotten Weapons featuring 20" barrel and VHS magwell.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RD9BxU1-qB8 |
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Posted: 3/4/2024 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BSJ: Forgotten Weapons featuring 20" barrel and VHS magwell. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RD9BxU1-qB8 I want that mag well 
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2024 12:07:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Odinforever2000]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: I want that mag well Are the magazines available? |
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Posted: 3/4/2024 2:04:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: Are the magazines available? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: Originally Posted By Findsman: I want that mag well Are the magazines available? About as available as the magazine well seems to be. My understanding is that it is compatible with G36 magazines as Croatia had a significant inventory of them prior to the VHS-2 being adopted. I have a bunch of G36 mags since I have my 805 Bren setup for the Czech “retro” mag well which is also G36-compatible. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2024 11:17:17 PM EDT
[#48]
I want that magwell too!
I’ve tried and haven’t found anywhere they are available. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2024 12:05:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: About as available as the magazine well seems to be. My understanding is that it is compatible with G36 magazines as Croatia had a significant inventory of them prior to the VHS-2 being adopted. I have a bunch of G36 mags since I have my 805 Bren setup for the Czech “retro” mag well which is also G36-compatible. I bet its super hard to find g36 mags and that Bren 805 g36 adapter.. |
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Posted: 3/5/2024 11:35:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: I bet its super hard to find g36 mags and that Bren 805 g36 adapter.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: Originally Posted By Findsman: About as available as the magazine well seems to be. My understanding is that it is compatible with G36 magazines as Croatia had a significant inventory of them prior to the VHS-2 being adopted. I have a bunch of G36 mags since I have my 805 Bren setup for the Czech “retro” mag well which is also G36-compatible. I bet its super hard to find g36 mags and that Bren 805 g36 adapter.. The 805 Retro adapter is hard to find now, yes, since the 805 is out of production. CZ ran specials all the time back when it was available that you could get the adapter and 5 CZ mags for $100 though so I have more than a couple.  HK G36 mags aren't exactly rare, they're just HK-priced around $40-$50, though sometimes you can find used ones in the $30-$40 range. Magpul also makes a PMAG for it that is $25 and pretty easy to find. I need a t-shirt that says "I survived the 94-04 AWB and all I got was this pile of mags... and this pile of mags... and all these piles of mags"  Attached FileSo no, I'm not bothered in the least by G36-pattern magazines. |
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